Windows 11 - 24H2

[lunardigs]

AI is a tool. I use it also and it's fine for the most part. Microsoft and Apple otoh are mega corps that are doing what they've always done, and AI in their hands will only further that ... so, I'm not excited for that at all.
Meanwhile, AI in the hands of open source devs should be a giant boon; whereas it should allow them to multiply their efforts, so I'm excited for that.
Then, a little further out will be the desktop AI, which can be run locally--and you can already do this with general hardware. Although, it's not quite prime time for that yet, but I'm still excited for it.

Then, even further out, I think the idea of software in general will shift, and AI will in essence become the ever morphing software that does purpose built stuff in a generic way, if that makes sense. At which point, concepts like propriety software, or selling software whatsoever will become an interesting question.
Whatever the case, we're right on the edge of an insane technological transformation. It's going to be interesting and probably really scary in number of respects. Whatever the case, there's no stopping it, so ... yeah

[vstdls]

"AI" encompasses more than your chatbot girlfriend.

I think that statement is quite revealing. I wasn't even aware such a thing existed.

It's clear that you actually DONT know.

Which is precisely why I ask f**king questions.

Not understanding != not being told the answer. Stop conflating the two, bud!

No need to conflate them, they are two sides of the same coin. Any moron can see that - if you lack underst6anding, you seek answers. Again, it's why I ask questions. So far, IvyBirds has been the only one with an answer that makes any sense.

Yes. Its a cloud AI. Why would you expect it work without a network connection?

Because that's what people have been asserting, if you bothered to read the thread before diving in head-first.

So you don't lose the thread again, like some kind of amnesiac grandma, BONES... you were baffled that people don't "just buy off the shelf."

I remember, because I was here, and didn't just dive in however many minutes back your dodgy, befuddled mind seems to go back. So here's some examples in few words for your comprehension:

1. Non-cloud AI.
2. More power. See above.
3. We don't care if it fits in our f*ckin purse, as you stated was most important to you.
4. Best Value.
5. Component selection.

The onus of not understanding answers is on you. Rejecting answers because you don't like them makes you a child.

[dellboy]

The AMD "Strix Point" chip has a neural processing unit (NPU) that can hit 50 trillion operations per second (TOPS).The new intel Lunar Lake,Arrow Lake,Panther Lake all have a similar onboard NPU. But you are right,the bulk of the operations will always be done in the cloud.

Old news. But that's what's coming, not what anyone is using now, and therefore irrelevant to the discussion.

There are lots of Copilot+ PCs out there. And the price is coming down fast. They all have a dedicated NPU for Ai tasks that do not need an internet connection to work,although access to the cloud enhances the capablities of the onboard NPU.


https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows ... t-plus-pcs

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-take ... ai-laptops

[lunardigs]

The processing power is one thing. The training and training data is another.
The weak point for consumers will ultimately be about the training. At least as it concerns how AI presently works.

[BONES]

So you don't lose the thread again, like some kind of amnesiac grandma, BONES... you were baffled that people don't "just buy off the shelf."

In case you missed it, snowflake, the thread diverged a couple of pages back. Do try and keep up. It possible to maintain discussions on multiple points, sorry if that confuses you.

1. Non-cloud AI.

Not a reason two years ago and, therefore, a really shitty explanation.

2. More power. See above.

As I have explained at length, not relevant in 2025 and, therefore, a shitty explanation.

3. We don't care if it fits in our f*ckin purse

You have a f**king purse? How lovely.

4. Best Value.

What? nobody has brought that up but I'll refute it. My current PC cost me Au$800, which is around US$500 or so. Whose building a new PC for that kind of money?

5. Component selection.

There are so many configurations available off the shelf, that is also irrelevant, and therefore yet another really shitty explanation.

The onus of not understanding answers is on you. Rejecting answers because you don't like them makes you a child.

No, it simply makes those answers irrelevant because they are not actually valid reasons. If you don't like that, then it is you with the emotional maturity of Donald Trump.

[BONES]

There are lots of Copilot+ PCs out there.

Just because there are a number of models available doesn't mean anyone is buying them.

[] Peter:H []

Ollama and LM Studio let you run Models locally on your cpu or preferably gpu. I run VS Code with the "Continue" Extension and Ollama locally. Sure it's not the deepseek-r1:671b model which is like 400gb in size. You cannot put that on consumer gpus. Mine for instance has only 8gb ... But smaller ones can be run and are not less creative in their halucinations.
Other case is training a model. that would not work on a local consumer machine... Building RAG data to support queries or "retraining" model extensions is possible though.
https://ollama.com/
https://ollama.com/library/deepseek-r1:671b
https://www.continue.dev/

P.S.: The underlying purpose of AI is to allow wealth to access skill while removing from the skilled the ability to access wealth.

[lunardigs]

P.S.: The underlying purpose of AI is to allow wealth to access skill while removing from the skilled the ability to access wealth.

touche

[vstdls]

So you don't lose the thread again, like some kind of amnesiac grandma, BONES... you were baffled that people don't "just buy off the shelf."

In case you missed it, snowflake, the thread diverged a couple of pages back. Do try and keep up. It possible to maintain discussions on multiple points, sorry if that confuses you.

1. Non-cloud AI.

Not a reason two years ago and, therefore, a really shitty explanation.

2. More power. See above.

As I have explained at length, not relevant in 2025 and, therefore, a shitty explanation.

3. We don't care if it fits in our f*ckin purse

You have a f**king purse? How lovely.

4. Best Value.

What? nobody has brought that up but I'll refute it. My current PC cost me Au$800, which is around US$500 or so. Whose building a new PC for that kind of money?

5. Component selection.

There are so many configurations available off the shelf, that is also irrelevant, and therefore yet another really shitty explanation.

The onus of not understanding answers is on you. Rejecting answers because you don't like them makes you a child.

No, it simply makes those answers irrelevant because they are not actually valid reasons. If you don't like that, then it is you with the emotional maturity of Donald Trump.

Good job man. You've typed so much retardation, you've just flat out won.

[IvyBirds]

What? nobody has brought that up but I'll refute it. My current PC cost me Au$800, which is around US$500 or so. Whose building a new PC for that kind of money?

5. Component selection.

There are so many configurations available off the shelf, that is also irrelevant, and therefore yet another really shitty explanation.

At least in America a $500 USD computer is going to pretty much blow for Audio/Video production. You would get an i3, maybe a 500GB Hard Drive, and 8GB of RAM maybe 12 if you find a sale

Good luck running any kind of DAW and plugins with that on Windows 11

If you cought a really good sale and got open box you might get an i5, a single 1TB SSD, and 12GB for $500. I can't imagine using that for production l, and if those are the level of PC you want you could build it for $300-$350

I could build a significantly better PC for $500

That is unless you want a very basic Laptop than knock yourself out with a $500 PC

I want the fastest processor a minimum of 3 multi terabyte solid state hard drives, a large case with good ventilation, a ton of USB 3 ports, and a ton of USB C ports, a fast mother board that can handle everything, 64 GBs of ram minimum, a good but not top of the line GPU, a high capacity power supply, a good Blue Ray Burner, and good high quality cooling solutions that are also quiet

I can't really get that off the shelf and nowhere near $500. I could buy that from a high end dealer who doesn't have one on the shelf and would have to build it, but it's way cheaper to just build one myself, and it's a fun weekend project putting it all together, and a fun few weeks planning to build it and shop for the components

I get you have different needs/wants than me and yours are much more basic. Not everyone has such basic bottom of the barrel needs and desires

[BONES]

At least in America a $500 USD computer is going to pretty much blow for Audio/Video production. You would get an i3, maybe a 500GB Hard Drive, and 8GB of RAM maybe 12 if you find a sale. Good luck running any kind of DAW and plugins with that on Windows 11

That's assuming you buy something new and pay full price. My last PC, for example, had a retail price of Au$3600 but I got a factory refurb with full warranty for $2300. I got my current machine second-hand but it was less than a year old and in as-new condition. It's still a current model.

If you cought a really good sale and got open box you might get an i5, a single 1TB SSD, and 12GB for $500. I can't imagine using that for production

And yet we had no problem producing our last album on pretty much those specs and it got great reviews and spent 8 weeks in the charts.

I want the fastest processor a minimum of 3 multi terabyte solid state hard drives, a large case with good ventilation, a ton of USB 3 ports, and a ton of USB C ports, a fast mother board that can handle everything, 64 GBs of ram minimum, a good but not top of the line GPU, a high capacity power supply, a good Blue Ray Burner, and good high quality cooling solutions that are also quiet

Why? It seems like massive overkill for anything anyone might actually want to do. Is it a small penis thing?

I get you have different needs/wants than me and yours are much more basic. Not everyone has such basic bottom of the barrel needs and desires

Except I don't see that at all. We're all trying to make the music we can, aren't we? Maybe I am just better at it than the rest of you?

[IvyBirds]

My last PC, for example, had a retail price of Au$3600 but I got a factory refurb with full warranty for $2300. I got my current machine second-hand but it was less than a year old and in as-new condition. It's still a current model.

But you said

PCs are so powerful and so incredibly cheap in 2025 that there is no reason not to buy something off the shelf.

And

There are so many configurations available off the shelf, that is also irrelevant, and therefore yet another really shitty explanation.

So why didn't you just buy a $500 computer off the shelf? Why did you buy used? Weird you didn't take your own advice that you spout on this forum

So can you buy a $500 PC off the shelf and use it for music production like you claimed? Or do you have to hunt around and bargain hunt and know a guy and buy used and not off the shelf for $500

[BONES]

PCs are so powerful and so incredibly cheap in 2025 that there is no reason not to buy something off the shelf.

I'm pretty sure warehouses have shelves, just like retail stores. After all, when you buy a Dell laptop or a MacBook from their respective corporate websites, you are ordering something that gets delivered from a warehouse, not a retail store. In fact, in the case of Dell, they don't even make it until they get your order and 15 or so years ago that was the only way you could buy a Dell here.

So why didn't you just buy a $500 computer off the shelf?

That's exactly what I did, I just got someone else to take it off the shelf and mail it to me. Even now, it sometimes sits on a shelf when I need the table for other things.

Why did you buy used?

Because I could get a current model machine for around one-third less than buying retail, without any penalty in terms of warranty service. The question is why the f**k doesn't everybody buy used? Doing this has allowed me to sell two of my old laptops for more than I paid for them, after a year of use. Those opportunities have dried up, though, as eBay has spiralled into terminal decline, so I'll be hanging on to this one for a good, long time. The timing really couldn't be better, as the machine I have now exceeds my needs by a factor of four or five and CPU requirements seem to have levelled off somewhat. It's entirely possible it will still be meeting my needs in a decade.

So can you buy a $500 PC off the shelf and use it for music production like you claimed?

Because I don't need one right now and what I've said didn't hold even five years ago. But you have to remember, in five years, Moore's Law says that computing power will have increased by more than 16 times and prices have definitely come way down on usable configurations since Intel ramped up the power of the 10th Gen Core i5. So where I would have been looking at a top-of-the-range computer five years ago, today I can choose something decidedly mid-spec and still get the performance I require.

I think this is very likely the difference between you and I - I am able to acknowledge that what I needed in the past should not necessarily inform what I look for to replace it today. OTOH, you just keep doing what you've always done without question or thought. The term for that kind of behaviour is "hidebound". To be fair, it took me a while to work this out but I got there in the end, so there's hope for you yet.

[IvyBirds]

I think this is very likely the difference between you and I - I am able to acknowledge that what I needed in the past should not necessarily inform what I look for to replace it today. OTOH, you just keep doing what you've always done without question or thought. The term for that kind of behaviour is "hidebound". To be fair, it took me a while to work this out but I got there in the end, so there's hope for you yet.

No the difference is I don't tell people to buy off the shelf computers for $500 with no mention of buying used then tell them about how I got a used computer for thousands of dollars. You got called on your bullshit and had to back track. We all know that is exactly what happened, or you would have mention to buy used in your diatribe as that seems to be what you do now

As for me when it comes to computers I don't do what I always do without question or thought

That's why I do research and build the computer I want with the exact specs and components I want

Doing the same thing is telling people to buy off the shelf systems with no thought and pretending as you do that the entire world has to work as you do. For example you think because you don't care if computers are quiet or not no one should, and you think just because you are happy with a crappy $500 used computer that everyone should be

That is the perfect example of "hidebound".and you display that exact behavior over and over again on this forum, from your thoughts on buying computers, to plugins that you don't like so no one else should

Computer technology is changing and evolving and getting better and better all the while Moore's law is dead and has been for a while, it took Intel five years to go from 14-nanometer technology (2014) to 10-nanometer technology (2019), rather than the two years Moore’s Law would predict. That started a decade ago and Moore's Law crashed and burned and is no longer relevant

You would know that is you were not so "hidebound" and beholden to obsolete thinking

When I do a PC build I figure out what could be improved in my current system, what the bottle necks are, and what could solve them. Then I do research and see what's available in the market that could fix those bottle necks. If there is nothing that will improve my current setup I won't build a new one, but if there is I will

I built my first computer in 1998, back then I built it for Photoshop, Video Production, and Audio Recording and Editing. I built that to replace my Amiga setup

In 2024 I built one for Photoshop, Lightroom, Video Production and Audio Recording and Editing

In 1998 I was using Windows 98, had a "massive" 29 GB hard drive and 500MB of RAM, things have changed quite a bit since then

A modern computer system is far more than just a CPU, the total sum of RAM and a a hard drive

Components matter, how they are configured matters, mother boards matter, power supplies matter, heat matters, cooling systems matter, USB ports mater, video ports and types matter, graphics card matter

If you are still stuck on Moore's Law in 2025 there is no better example of someone doing what they have always done without question or thought. The term for that kind of behaviour is "hidebound" and it's exactly what you do here on KVR constantly

To quote Metallica "Open mind for a different view, And nothing else matters"

[vstdls]

You got called on your bullshit and had to back track.

First time dealing with BONES?