Should I buy a new PC or new iMac?

[bmanic]

So sticking with PC is starting to feel like the wise thing to do.

As a life-long Windows user that just recently in 2020 switched to Mac at home (still running a Windows system at the studio though), I have to disagree. At least if you are on a budget. Ironically, the current macs are better bang for the buck in my opinion, especially if you take Windows vs OS X idiosyncrasies into account (aka your time = money).

Windows 11 needs a lot of tinkering with to get it into a "lean / not annoying" mode.. whereas OS X for the most part just works though it can be a bad experience as well if you try to run old plugins/old programs. Just make sure your DAW of choice is well maintained on Mac. Not sure all DAWs are equal in this regard. If I remember correctly, Cubase actually runs much better on Windows and is far less buggy there, but I could be wrong.

Another thing to consider in terms of operating system; once you have the system working on mac, you can just ignore most updates and stay where you are, which is NOT easy to do on Windows 11 with it's forced updates (there are ways around this though but again, it requires quite a bit of tinkering).

So if you value your time and calculate that as a cost, OS X is far "cheaper" to run in my experience.

On the purely hardware grunt side of things, the M4 chip is pretty damn impressive but it does not hold a candle against the top of the line AMD stuff in terms of multi core processing. But in audio, we have already surpassed CPU requirements in general. If you just do normal recording/mixing (up to 150 tracks) you will probably never run out of CPU resources, even in the badly optimized DAWs like Logic. Even if you decide to run tons of plugin instruments, you have to push it ridiculously far until you reach the limits and have to render.

Heck, I'm still running this Mac Mini M1 base model (8gb of Ram!!) and I very rarely have to render to save up on CPU resources.

I think 32gb of ram would be plenty for what I do. EZD3 and maybe EZK2 are the only instruments I usually use. The rest is guitars, bass and vocals.

16gb of RAM is more than enough for these basic plugins. ONLY if you are running multiple orchestral libraries would it be necessary to get 32gb or more RAM.

If you have about 2k$ to spend, then I'd go for the base Mac Mini M4 Pro. This gives you 24gb RAM and 512gb internal super fast SSD. Should cost around 1600$ which leaves you with 400$ for the peripherals.

Buy a decent 1 or 2TB external SSD for all the large project files and sample libraries. Then get a basic monitor for around 300$. Finally get a good basic Logitech mouse + keyboard bundle for the last 100$. The ones from Apple are absolutely shit in my opinion.. both the mouse and keyboard.

[bmanic]

If you're still curious about Logic, there are much cheaper ways of doing things.

The base M4 Mac Mini is pretty damn cheap. Apparently it's already been on sale for close to 500$ in the states.. I wouldn't try to build any kinds of Hackintosh systems in this day and age.

[VitaminD]

I have no experience with apple other than my old iPhone but the new M4 iMac looks like a good deal.
For about $1899 I can have the new M4 iMac with 10 core cpu, 10 core gpa, 16gb ram, and a 1tb of storage. It also comes with monitor, keyboard and mouse.
If I order a PC it would be around the same money without keyboard and mouse. However memory expansion is far less.
So anything I need to consider that I may possibly be forgetting about.

Why would you buy the all-in-one desktop? You'll get better performance per dollar with a separated PC and monitor, even within the Apple ecosystem.

The $1899 price looks to be the model with 24gb of ram though. But as a mac mini, the same specs are $999. You can easily find a nice monitor for far less than $900.

That said you can find better performance in a PC. Plus, the PC will be upgradable, especially system memory (up to 192 GB worth!). Where as the Apple product is like an appliance. Outside of hard drive, I don't think there is much you can upgrade on them. I think ram maxes out at 24 gb on the mini's where the Mac Pro it goes a bit more.

You're probably going to pay more for the PC, especially if you're only looking at boutique audio PC builders. I think that is a bit unfair though considering you cannot and thus are not doing the same for the Apple. Otherwise the Apple product would cost even more too, but they mass produce those and use proprietary designs which lowers the overall cost.

So its comparing apples and bananas. Your better comparison with the Apple PCs would be with HP or Dell pcs.... consumer grade. But even that isn't fully an even comparison..

Also, if you're willing to spend 2 grand on a Windows PC for a tower without a monitor, why wouldn't you look at closer priced options with the Apple products? At the least I'd look at the $1300 priced Mac Mini with the 12 core processor and 24 GB of shared ram. Well, If I was ever going to consider a Mac.. ( I wouldn't, PC is less money and hassle to me )

Also Also, keep in mind supposedly Apple is launching refreshing Mac Studio in the next couple of months. If you wanted a 2 grand Mac hotrod..

All in all I'm not sure you've really weighed your options too deeply..

[uOpt]

The base M4 Mac Mini is pretty damn cheap. Apparently it's already been on sale for close to 500$ in the states.. I wouldn't try to build any kinds of Hackintosh systems in this day and age.

Mine was $499 on Amazon in December. I don't know whether that was a special prime price or not.

I wouldn't hold back on OS updates without a good, known reason. Do a time machine backup before updating. If it really doesn't work, go back.

[bmanic]

I wouldn't hold back on OS updates without a good, known reason. Do a time machine backup before updating. If it really doesn't work, go back.

I would be careful with major OS updates on Macs (meaning all point updates like 15.2 to 15.3 etc). They can render plugins and DAWs not working. I would never update an audio setup within the first 6 months or so unless it is absolutely necessary due to some serious vulnerability (which Apple usually communicates clearly when that happens).

For instance, I have a rock solid setup at the moment and am running Sonoma. Before that I was running Big Sur for several years.

Unless you venture on to super weird websites, you are generally quite safe and thus don't constantly need to be up to date. At least this has been my experience.

The only exception here is Logic Pro Audio, which sometimes holds you hostage.. meaning Apple forces you to keep the OS up to date to be able to enjoy the latest version.

[Jim Roseberry]

Once you use M.2 or PCIe slots going through the chipset you lose the speed advantage over Thunderbolt and USB4.

Benchmark M.2 drives when installed internally... vs when connected via TB4/USB4.
The best external M.2 enclosures sustain closer to PCIe 3 speeds (nowhere close to PCIe 4).

Core Ultra 9 285K has 24 PCIe lanes
Ryzen 9 9950X has 24 (useable) PCIe lanes

[uOpt]

I wouldn't hold back on OS updates without a good, known reason. Do a time machine backup before updating. If it really doesn't work, go back.

I would be careful with major OS updates on Macs (meaning all point updates like 15.2 to 15.3 etc). They can render plugins and DAWs not working. I would never update an audio setup within the first 6 months or so unless it is absolutely necessary due to some serious vulnerability (which Apple usually communicates clearly when that happens).

It would be more correct to say that certain DRM schemes can get disapled in first-point releases. The actual plugins, those with sane DRM, are usually fine.

As for serious vulnerability, my reading of Apple's release notes in recent years has been that the first-point releases have all fixed very serious security problems.

Unless you venture on to super weird websites, you are generally quite safe and thus don't constantly need to be up to date. At least this has been my experience.

Some security flaws are of the kind where somebody sends you a picture and your mailer or messenger allows RCE without you even looking at the message. Insecure is insecure. It isn't just scary websites. As another example, an exploit picture can be embedded into any post on this forum. Or into ads.

[uOpt]

Once you use M.2 or PCIe slots going through the chipset you lose the speed advantage over Thunderbolt and USB4.

Benchmark M.2 drives when installed internally... vs when connected via TB4/USB4.
The best external M.2 enclosures sustain closer to PCIe 3 speeds (nowhere close to PCIe 4).

Core Ultra 9 285K has 24 PCIe lanes
Ryzen 9 9950X has 24 (useable) PCIe lanes

Don't you think that is a bit misleading?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

If you're still curious about Logic, there are much cheaper ways of doing things.

The base M4 Mac Mini is pretty damn cheap. Apparently it's already been on sale for close to 500$ in the states..

Indeed! And with Logic seemingly a DAW-for-life, it's got to be up there with the best music production deals in the game.

[Jim Roseberry]

Once you use M.2 or PCIe slots going through the chipset you lose the speed advantage over Thunderbolt and USB4.

 

Benchmark M.2 drives when installed internally... vs when connected via TB4/USB4.
The best external M.2 enclosures sustain closer to PCIe 3 speeds (nowhere close to PCIe 4).

Core Ultra 9 285K has 24 PCIe lanes
Ryzen 9 9950X has 24 (useable) PCIe lanes

 

Don't you think that is a bit misleading?

 

From Z890 manual:


Lets say we install six internal (PCIe 4.0) M.2 SSDs that sustain 7300MB/Sec.
M.2 slots 1-4 will yield 7300MB/Sec
M.2 slots 5 and 6 will yield 4800-6800Mb/Sec (depending on how much bandwidth is being used).

A typical TB4 connected M.2 will yield 2800MB/Sec.
Inflate this figure a bit (3800MB/Sec for a Hyperdrive USB4 enclosure), it's still leaving a lot of performance on the table.

In the above example, you also have the option of running three PCIe 5.0 M.2 drives (costly at this point)... and they would yield 12000-14000MB/Sec.

 

[Alexander_D]

After 5 years on Windows I will be back to Mac. Just my experience...

[Liero]

I've been going back and forth between mac and windows most of my life and have now settled on Windows (10!) for one specific reason: Customizability.

It seems like the mac is more and more going into the direction of being quite locked down in how to use it, and many 3rd party apps are very restricted in what they can do on a mac.

Mac does a lot of things out of the box better than Windows, but at least with Windows I have the option to uninstall (quite easily with 3rd party tools) all the crap I don't like about it, while enjoying a huge assortment of 3rd party tools that can radically alter the OS into the direction I want.

Quite often the formula goes: Windows built-in app < Mac OS built-in app < Third party app.

[jthekidd427]

I like Mac the workflow is clean logic pro x is a great DAW

[vitocorleone123]

I wouldn't hold back on OS updates without a good, known reason. Do a time machine backup before updating. If it really doesn't work, go back.

I would be careful with major OS updates on Macs (meaning all point updates like 15.2 to 15.3 etc). They can render plugins and DAWs not working.

Reasons like the above make it a wash in terms of "time saved" per your earlier post.

I don't believe Mac PCs are any better - just different.

If someone needs a laptop and relies on long battery life, MBP is the way to go (Windows on ARM may change this).

For a desktop, PC.

But if you're already invested in one platform, including your time, you may be best off sticking with that platform unless seeking a change and have the resources (esp. time) to make said change.

I use both a MBP and PC every day.

[dermage]

I wouldn't hold back on OS updates without a good, known reason. Do a time machine backup before updating. If it really doesn't work, go back.

I would be careful with major OS updates on Macs (meaning all point updates like 15.2 to 15.3 etc). They can render plugins and DAWs not working.

Reasons like the above make it a wash in terms of "time saved" per your earlier post.

This!

I have been running Windows with my music production PC since about 20 years. I have not once needed to re-install the OS. Just could upgrade and upgrade to the newest version of Windows (from XP to 7, to 8, 10, 11).
I can not think of a single plugin not loading anymore.

For Mac I'm all the time reading stories about OS upgrades breaking plugins. Developers warn people not to upgrade "yet". It goes so far as to when you buy a new Apple, you have to wait for several weeks/months until you can use it (until all plugin devs have updated their stuff), because you can't go "back" with a new bought Apple.

And there's another reason, which might benefit the more tech affine people. When something in your Mac goes broke, you need to send it in/exchange it (if you are still under warranty etc). On my PC I can just exchange a component which is faulty (Not that it happens often, but it happened to me years ago).

One last reason, after some OS upgrades, Mac drops compatibility and you can't upgrade anymore and need to buy new hardware. I'm not sure what the time is, but it happens after 5-7 years.
On Windows it's still possible now (although not fully supported by MS) to upgrade my 10+ year old PC to Win11. It will work, and I don't need to throw it away to buy new hardware to install the newest OS.
Ok you can run an old OS as long as you want, but you should not go online with it unless you don't mind losing your data to hackers (even happens for Mac now).

I am no fanboy of Windows either, and criticize it alot, as they are doing uneeded things with GUI changes and AI integration, telemetry etc.
There is no best OS, but I simply don't like the MAC/Apple-lock-in which you are buying into, when getting one. Btw: you can even install Linux on your PC if you don't like Windows anymore or when there are enough DAW tools available to work fully on it (which is already possible. eg. u-he plugins are all available on Linux)