One Synth Challenge #192: Six Sines by BaconPaul (johnkhf Wins!)

[Hanz Meyzer]

rather than a noise waveform, the technique to use is to set the feedback up high with the feedback overdrive button (the 10x button) which will drive most of the waveforms into noise easily at high self modulation

Hi, I tried this now in detail. It is nice that there is 10x feedback and this possibility, but by no means this can be a replacement for a precise noise generator. I would assume that a set of standard noise types waveforms, esp. darker sounding types would help a lot shaping even better sounds. Just my two cents here.

[Taron]

rather than a noise waveform, the technique to use is to set the feedback up high with the feedback overdrive button (the 10x button) which will drive most of the waveforms into noise easily at high self modulation

Hi, I tried this now in detail. It is nice that there is 10x feedback and this possibility, but by no means this can be a replacement for a precise noise generator. I would assume that a set of standard noise types waveforms, esp. darker sounding types would help a lot shaping even better sounds. Just my two cents here.

Just a little inspiration, you can create more colorful noises, too, using the LFO noise with a high rate on the Level of an oscillator. Then you have a few ways to control the "filtering" of it, from the ratio of the respective operator to the amount of feedback, which then doesn't have to be up or high at all to adjusting phase modulation or pick any other type. The noise on the level gives you very unique possibilities for shaping the sound!

Extra tip:

• Op1 Level: 0%
• Op1 Level LFO type: NOISE
• Op1 Level LFO rate: >180hz (higher adds more spectrum to high and low!)
• Op1 Level LFO [*Env] on to control the noise LFO depth with the envelope, if you need it!
• Op1 Ratio: Acts like filter. You can modulate it, too, of course!

[empphryio]

Hi, I tried this now in detail. It is nice that there is 10x feedback and this possibility, but by no means this can be a replacement for a precise noise generator. I would assume that a set of standard noise types waveforms, esp. darker sounding types would help a lot shaping even better sounds. Just my two cents here.

Here is a noise patch without the overdrive. Slightly modified from Z prime's patch. You can then turn the op 1 ratio down or up and make it choppy and add reverb/EQ and I think it makes very nice rain. You can turn the feedback on for op2, 3 etc to make it very smooth noise. Can make wind/flute breath. You can also of course turn the sustain off, use overdrive for drums, etc. Along with what Taron said this just has a lot more possibilities than a noise waveform.

[Hanz Meyzer]

This is all cool, nice that you can create kind of noise. And thanks for the examples!

But still, it is nowhere near a precisely controllable noise mechanism. I am looking at this from a sound designer's perspective, not an OSC-compo one. Just look how Korg Opsix provides noise:



In Opsix, there are not only various types of noise, you can use it in filter or filter fm mode, then the ratio turns into a frequency parameter, effectively a precise bp filter (and with various filter types even).

Why do you think Korg added these? Since you also can simply feedback with crazy ratios for a simple bright noise. If it wasn't neccessary, a hardware vendor would have been the first to leave this blank.

Precise, decent sounding noise is important e.g. for coloration, beefing up transients, adding ice/coldness/cloudyness, adding warmth, or even as a mixing tool in the context of the mix. It shouldn't just be fullband, kind of bright noise.

Do you want this synth to be used just by some nerdy sound scientists like we are?

[baconpaul]

Oooh I’ll find some time to write more on noise later. Your point deserves a thoughtful response hanz

But I just wanted to drop in a thank you to the community here for all your bug reports. It let us release a new version of the clap wrapper today https://github.com/free-audio/clap-wrap ... /ChangeLog which is going into some synths from some other manufacturers this spring. I appreciate the patience as we found these and wanted to share that your careful reports have made the audio software space better! Thank you

[Taron]

This is all cool, nice that you can create kind of noise. And thanks for the examples!

But still, it is nowhere near a precisely controllable noise mechanism. I am looking at this from a sound designer's perspective, not an OSC-compo one. Just look how Korg Opsix provides noise:
...
Do you want this synth to be used just by some nerdy sound scientists like we are?

Eh, did you try what I was suggesting up there?
You might be surprised!

Anyway, Six Sines is somehow inspiring me a lot to explore the true power of FM and is highly approachable. Whichever way it grows, it's off to one heck of a brilliant start. I love that it keeps me thinking and wanting to try things. If I were naggy about anything, it would be my wanting a built-in scope, hahahaha, but other than that: Hurray!

[Taron]

Here, just for you:


I might make a more comprehensive video about it, too, because there's quite a lot more to explore along those lines. Let me know if that might be interesting to you.

[doctorbob]

The only thing I would like is for the values of any knob be displayed somewhere on hover? Must be some spare space lurking for a little text field? Problem I see is some form of polling for x/y mouse position interrupting the real-time audio threads. Maybe a sample x/y position when mouse is stopped and if over a knob update the text field with data values? Just an idea.

Having to e.g. touch a knob with either right or left click before you can see the actual value set can be a bit frustrating. Seeing values at a glance would help sound designers. I would be happy if the knobs were smaller and each had a values field under each permanently displayed. I understand that this would look less streamlined and also "cluttered" as a UI.

Many synths have a text field somewhere which displays the last touched parameter value.

Anyway, I echo @Taron's feeling about this synth which we have see evolve so quickly and masterfully over the course of this OSC. So thank you for that @baconpaul.

dB

[baconpaul]

Oh did I not do a tooltip on hover. Sheesh. Short circuit does that I must have just not turned it on. I’ll add an issue

None of it is on the audio thread. So it’s totally easy. Basically set a little timer on mouse enter and reset it on move. I’ll add an issue and figure out why this is in short circuit and not the shared library, and then move it to the shared library

Thanks for the kind words

[baconpaul]

Oh taron that makes me think I should set the lfo upper frequency above 512. We have it at 512 because in surge with block size 32 nyquist ends up at 48k/2/32 or 750hz but in six sines the modulators run at the oversample rate at 8 wide block (Which is why they are so snappy) so modulator nyquist is more like 48k*2.5/2/8=7.5 K so I could safely set the upper bound on lfo rate more like 2048hz I bet.

[Taron]

Oh taron that makes me think I should set the lfo upper frequency above 512. We have it at 512 because in surge with block size 32 nyquist ends up at 48k/2/32 or 750hz but in six sines the modulators run at the oversample rate at 8 wide block (Which is why they are so snappy) so modulator nyquist is more like 48k*2.5/2/8=7.5 K so I could safely set the upper bound on lfo rate more like 2048hz I bet.

YES! Yaha! Yes! I was afraid to ask, haha... fantastic!

[baconpaul]

oh doctorbob and taron both of these were super easy (and hover was in the shared library just i hadn't toggled it on on our controls). i just did a merge which (1) sets lfo max to 2048 and (2) activates the tooltip-on-hover. basically hold mouse steady over any continuous control for 500ms and a tooltip appears.

should be in next nightly. thanks for the poke.

[FrankH]

My track for this month:
https://soundcloud.com/user-194933727/f ... al_sharing

NOTES:
A glitchy groove with jazz elements provides the Noise Medicine

Six Signs x 11
DAW Presonus Studio One

Effects:
Presonus: Fat Channel, Room Reverb, Auto Filter, Pro EQ, Beat Delay, Analog Delay, Limiter
Melda: M Transient, M Tremelo, M Spectral Pan
Klanghelm: IVG12
Bittersweet
Valhalla Super Massive
Frontier Limiter

[Hanz Meyzer]

Here, just for you:
...
I might make a more comprehensive video about it, too, because there's quite a lot more to explore along those lines. Let me know if that might be interesting to you.

Thanks, this is very kind of you, and helpful for this compo, too. And yes, I am interested a lot to see more of your explorations.

Though I don't think you have disproved my above argument at all

I don't want to continue this debate forever, but like to remind you to revisit your common workstation VSTi and compare what - let's call it "more precise" - noise controls sound like. Here is a quick example:
https://soundcloud.com/hanzmeyzer/preci ... zru9YwatAh

If the noise can sound such "smooth", optionally, the overall resulting sound of course will benefit, too. I am just arguing that the synth would highly benefit from more noise options. And since it is an additive synth, its output already should be as fine as possible, not even requiring a lot of "heavy bandwidth limiting eq treatment", IMHO. And please understand, I am not writing this because I want to criticise this plugin, no, it is obvious so great already! But I am kind of dreaming of very-nice-to-use-no-so-much-workaround-synths lately. Might be only my very personal point of view though.

Btw. if you haven't done so far, and you are interested in FM synths, really try opsix (there is a demo available). It already lacks of features that six sines provides, but also comes with a ton of other very inspiring features actually. I much prefer the straight-forward approach of Six Sines though, almost WYSIWYG.

[Taron]

Hanz, thank you, really. It always makes me happy to see a passion for synthesis so close to my own. Nobody debates the luxury of having comprehensive noise and/or filters. No doubt that someone with the caliber of Paul is keenly aware of all this and indeed it would be wonderful to have a number of additional features in Six Sines. We, however, have the tremendous luxury of having him here with us, doing a stunning job in taking Six Sines to a whole new level together with us. He jumps on virtually any request, having to juggle a number of considerations along the way to navigate the growth of it and manage it realistically. The moment noise and noise types were mentioned along with filters and many more ideas, they entered his list, I'm very sure.
In the meantime we can help each other to explore what we can do with what we have already, that's another wonderful luxury we have here, that's all. And that's a heck of a lot, if you asked me. SO, yeah, good call with the noise and thanks for the Opsix tip. I have this for a while already, but haven't done anything with it, yet.

And thanks for the example! I tried to hear a proper "F" in there, but there wasn't one, WHAT?!
One thing about "workarounds", though, because especially in this case I think it's better to recognize this as another opportunity to play and explore unknown territories. That's probably some of the most exciting stuff to do. Unlike with many synths that send us into desperately figuring out workarounds, this one sends me into joyful discovery and tickled immense curiosity. Once you recognize this, there's endless fun to be had with it! Even as I write this I'm thinking about experiments... dang.

EDIT: HUAH, WHAT? I did NOT have Opsix at all, haha. I thought I had it... I knew about it, though. How weird. Well, I'll try the demo! Thanks!