was music discovered or invented?

[Tux]

Music was invented by that bloke who invented the wheel

He was a very modest bloke. No one knew much about him... It was all a very long time ago now.

[clueless]

I think... ummm... this guy called copernicus discovered it... and then he took it to america... and elvis presley was born.

'Did I forget to mention, to mention Memphis
Home of Elvis and the ancient greeks'

[Metanol]

I think... ummm... this guy called copernicus discovered it... and then he took it to america... and elvis presley was born.

And some ancient guys hide code for ultimate analog sounding VSTi, in to the declaration of independence of this one nation, which is in North American continent. Was it Mexico or Canada i cant remember, but anyway I hope Nicholas Cage will find it soon. Then he will release it as freeware.

[nuffink]

There's a vast history of music from around the world that doesn't rely on harmony whatsoever.

nuffink;

well, there's a vast history of (dreaded) *western* music that doesn't "rely on harmony whatsoever."

You'll get no argument from me, this merely reinforces my point. Which begs the question - what's the rest of your post...

in fact, greek theoreticians that i'm speaking (aristoxenes, plato, later boethius) didn't deal with "chords" in their writings. in fact, i'd say greek music 500 yrs bc sounded about as "foreign" to current day western music as any music could, and yet, it's the foundation of the dreaded western music you speak of.

u see, an octave is an octave, whether its played by ravi shankar or john phillip sousa.

the only real difference between modes used in different cultures is the number of tones used to divide the octave, and the intervals in between those tones.

so, again, listen to nitin sawhney for yourself... hear how "Christian" music and "Hindu" music sit side by side so nicely...so.... harmonious... (dam western word...)

...going on about?

[Peel]

Some, most, or all music might be based on certain principles of physics & psychoacoustics that are universal -- EG the "octave"*. But even if we assume that music is partly or fully rooted in natural principles, it does not follow that therefore music must be "discovered" rather than "invented." The steam engine is based on universal principles, but it's silly to therefore say that the steam engine was "discovered" rather than "invented."

Having said that, "music" exists in the listener's mind. It no more needed to be invented than colours did. Music is neither invented nor discovered. It is perceived**.


* Even the idea that the octave is a universal musical principle is not quite as true as most people believe, but that's another discussion...

** Perception/understanding/recognition -- not necessarily physical hearing.

[mauseoleum]

'She boxed the Queen's ears--' the Rabbit began. Alice gave a little scream of laughter. 'Oh, hush!' the Rabbit whispered in a frightened tone. 'The Queen will hear you! You see, she came rather late, and the Queen said--'[/quote]

[Lunch Money]

There's a vast history of music from around the world that doesn't rely on harmony whatsoever.

nuffink;

well, there's a vast history of (dreaded) *western* music that doesn't "rely on harmony whatsoever."

You'll get no argument from me, this merely reinforces my point. Which begs the question - what's the rest of your post...

Not an example of 'begging the question'.

[nuffink]

Not an example of 'begging the question'.

You're right!Top quality pedantry.

[cptgone]

Music was invented by that bloke who invented the wheel

He was a very modest bloke. No one knew much about him... It was all a very long time ago now.

Hey man, I'm still very modest! I invented modesty!

[ericj23]

It was discoverered, a long time ago, that the human mind likes some combinations of tones better than other. It is claimed Pythagoras did that discovery. It is discovered, about a year ago, that the human mind very much dislikes specific cords and note or tone progressions.
It is invented how to build music from those 'soothing' and sometimes not so 'soothing' cords and tone pogressions.

Again, you're confusing western music with music.

this is your point that i am disagreeing with - phythagorus is the greek i am referring too - the greek scales/modes are not the root of just western music

I'm well aware of the pythagorean modes. Are you seriously suggesting that Indian and Chinese music (who's musical traditions predate Homer never mind Pythagorus) are rooted in ancient Greek maths?
Are you also suggesting that pre-hellenic cultures had no music?
And how about native American and Australasian music? Also Greek based?

of course i'm not - you were the one who suggested that the greeks notions of harmony were the root of western music ONLY - which im afriad they are not - go and check out turkish/arabian music or see the influence of those greek modes on the music of north africa - wester music only just not even vaguely correct

you seem really unwilling to admit that your original comment was wrong - why ?

[nuffink]

One of us is utterly confused here eric. I'm more than happy to assume it's me and allow anyone who's followed our dialogue to draw their own conclusions.

[mauseoleum]

http://www.lambdoma.com/

... damn Pytzhaghorra ...

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[Lunch Money]

Not an example of 'begging the question'.

You're right!Top quality pedantry.

I'm nothing if not pedantic. I'm going to bookmark that link for later, because it's easier than trying to explain it myself each time.

Greg

[No1234]

Music was invented by that bloke who invented the wheel

He was a very modest bloke. No one knew much about him... It was all a very long time ago now.

Hey man, I'm still very modest! I invented modesty!

So it was you - how was it back then, btw? Grass roots, open fires etc??? Wooly buffulo?