The Dire State of Guitar Amp Sims

[metalifuxx]

I love Ableton Live for this purpose. I’m a midi newb still after 20 years but it’s dead easy to this for most plugins. Even if the plugin doesnt show all or any parameters in the non-gui version, it allows you to midi learn the parameter on the GUI to a macro control knob you create and then you midi learn that to a controller. I’m sure within Live’s builtin effect chain/rack and or a max4live module, you can set max/min parameters once you have all that setup. It was difficult or impossible in early versions of Live, but the newer versions make it possible with a little learning, which it seems a midi newbie like myself could probably easily learn to do.

Back in 2009, i was able to figure out how to do it for live playing with IK Multimedia’s Stealth Pedal, but couldn’t figure out how to get it to record the automation when i went to record a track. My tedious work around was to set up the midi learn within Amplitube, and just send the audio to another armed track to record it.

[paramita123]

Wait until you find out your DAW probably has a native learn feature that will assign MIDI controllers to automation parameters!

Of course I know it has ! I've been using Cubase for many years.
You are missing both my points my friend :
- the DAW is not able to combine, control the range and revert signal polarity like I was able with StudioRack
- there's much room for improvements on UI and UX for both software and hardware controllers for guitar players
Perhaps Bitwig would do better than Cubase I don't know. At least I figured Waves StudioRack has this killer setup, plus it's free ! Happy

[paramita123]

I love Ableton Live for this purpose. I’m a midi newb still after 20 years but it’s dead easy to this for most plugins. Even if the plugin doesnt show all or any parameters in the non-gui version, it allows you to midi learn the parameter on the GUI to a macro control knob you create and then you midi learn that to a controller. I’m sure within Live’s builtin effect chain/rack and or a max4live module, you can set max/min parameters once you have all that setup. It was difficult or impossible in early versions of Live, but the newer versions make it possible with a little learning, which it seems a midi newbie like myself could probably easily learn to do.

Back in 2009, i was able to figure out how to do it for live playing with IK Multimedia’s Stealth Pedal, but couldn’t figure out how to get it to record the automation when i went to record a track. My tedious work around was to set up the midi learn within Amplitube, and just send the audio to another armed track to record it.

I went to have a look and you are right.
Live seems to be better equipped for this ! A simple min max can set the range, hopefully it can go reverted which can flip the polarity. I'm going to double-check if Cubase has this otherwise I'll submit the feature request on the forum.
At least the workaround using Waves StudioRack really is SO powerful, one macro to control multiple parameters, made my guitar playing with one foot pedal incredible fun !
Cheers

[CapnLockheed]

Wait until you find out your DAW probably has a native learn feature that will assign MIDI controllers to automation parameters!

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

download.jpeg

Primo by APFX is my goto amp sim solution for now. IT addresses nearly all of complaints above and sounds great IMHO.

https://apfxaudio.com/products/primo?sr ... 3n1BV_RYVY

[paramita123]

download.jpegPrimo by APFX is my goto amp sim solution for now. IT addresses nearly all of complaints above and sounds great IMHO.

https://apfxaudio.com/products/primo?sr ... 3n1BV_RYVY

That's a constructive comment, thanks, it does sound good from the YT demo.
No skeuomorphic nonsense, great clear UI. They also say light on CPU.
And under 30 euros, cheap. I might give it a try !
For now I fixed my issue thanks to the awesome free Waves StudioRack.
I hope this post will be helpful to some others looking for more creative control than just switches.

[zerocrossing]

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_ReGuitar/
and
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_Axiom/
have all the functionality and MIDI but also the hideous skeumorphic design. You might be able to fix that tho as blue cat have an interface design package built in as well

I found Axiom to be the one of the worst amp sim/effects plugin of all time. I'm fine with lots to tweak. I used a Kemper Amp Profiler and an AxeFX 3 for years, but Axiom seemed to never provide a good sound no matter what. Shame, as it's right up my ally. You can add Melda's guitar amp modeler to that too, though someone said they added the NAM to it and maybe it's better now.

I'm never wanting to reproduce an actual guitar amp so I tend to use nothing other than fx as I would with any other input. In other words I am the wrong person to talk about accurate amp sims. I do use their re-guitar sometimes. Axiom can hold any vstfx as well - like a lot of the blue cat plugins. So you could just have guitar going into Axiom and use any IR then something from zynaptiq etc

Yeah, I get that. The me from 25 years ago would have been a lot more into it, because I was 90% guitar focused. Now I'm probably 40% guitar focused, 60% synthesizers, so I tend to gravitate more towards guitars sounding like traditional guitars than I used to, even if they're sometimes drenched in effects. I don't know, I just felt like Axiom's distortions just didn't sound good. Noticeable aliasing isn't great even in an abstract sound, unless you're doing something really lo-fi.

[jens]

I found Axiom to be the one of the worst amp sim/effects plugin of all time. I'm fine with lots to tweak. I used a Kemper Amp Profiler and an AxeFX 3 for years, but Axiom seemed to never provide a good sound no matter what.

The amp part of Axiom is Destructor, which is amazing. It's super-flexible&versatile and sounds absolutely great, however

- control-wise it works totally different to most any other ampsim out there (Voxengo's Boogex is somewhat similar concept-wise) and hence you first need to get familiar with it in order to get the most out of it

- Frankly put, its developer has a bit his head up his own lower backside when it comes to modelling physical phenomenons.
When (years ago when it first came out) I requested dynamic filters for the speaker-simulation, he replied that there'd be absolutely no need/use for it because guitar-cabs would be completely linear (which of course they aren't - but this was years before most amp-sim developers came out with their own solutions because simple static filtering isn't really cutting it).
So there's that - which is a shame.

(It's quite a similar story with their attempt at rotary speakers (Spinal Vibe) which is basically a complete travesty for similar reasons.)

[CapnLockheed]

Just because you don't like the way a GUI looks and/or suits your workflow, does not necesarrily mean that it's bad and needs to be "improved" to suit your personal wants/needs/desires. Many other users may actually LIKE some of the very things that are being complaining about. Devs have to please a very wide range of users with different wants/needs/desires. It's why users submit feature requests. If the vast majority of users want/need/desire a particular fetaure, the devs might consider it....or not. But, if you are in the minority of users demanding this feature, I wouldn't hold my breath. Also, sometimes feature requests, even if very popular, are not always feasible for developers to implement. You simply cannot please everyone all the time.

All that being said, there has never been a time when guitarists have had more options both in both hardware and software then there are at this very moment. So to quote Frank Zappa "shut up and play yer guitar".

[paramita123]

Just because you don't like the way a GUI looks and/or suits your workflow, does not necesarrily mean that it's bad and needs to be "improved" to suit your personal wants/needs/desires. Many other users may actually LIKE some of the very things that are being complaining about. Devs have to please a very wide range of users with different wants/needs/desires. It's why users submit feature requests. If the vast majority of users want/need/desire a particular fetaure, the devs might consider it....or not. But, if you are in the minority of users demanding this feature, I wouldn't hold my breath. Also, sometimes feature requests, even if very popular, are not always feasible for developers to implement. You simply cannot please everyone all the time.

All that being said, there has never been a time when guitarists have had more options both in both hardware and software then there are at this very moment. So to quote Frank Zappa "shut up and play yer guitar".

You state the obvious my friend. Of course we are all different.
But remember what I advocate is first very feasible, MIDI learn for example should be a standard. Accessibility of all parameters for automation. etc..
With regards to GUIs, of course we have different tastes. Which is one reason why I encourage developers to push with different GUI views. Positive Grid made a step forward for example with the pedal view in BIAS FX2, but it's not a great UX and the concept can go further, with a better blend of skeuomorphism and modern features.

There will never be a one size fit all. And as you say there are plenty of options indeed.
Which is also an excellent reason for developers to work hard to stand out from the crowd and bring guitar amp sims to the next level.
For now, I have worked out that Waves StudioRack makes an exceptional guitar pedal board.

[zerocrossing]

I found Axiom to be the one of the worst amp sim/effects plugin of all time. I'm fine with lots to tweak. I used a Kemper Amp Profiler and an AxeFX 3 for years, but Axiom seemed to never provide a good sound no matter what.

The amp part of Axiom is Destructor, which is amazing. It's super-flexible&versatile and sounds absolutely great

My problem with it is that on the default settings, the Destructor aliases a lot. At 4x oversampling, it's OK, but not as good as whatever Amplitube or Tonex is doing. I guess if it had a decent IR module, it could be good, but that Post-Filter thing sucks. It just sounds dead. For fun, I ran the demo without that stupid Post-Filter and it sounded a lot better though an Ownhammer IR. Also, the distortion boxes alias even worse, and running them at 4x with the amp starts to really kill the ol' CPU.

Ultimately, I like the concept, but I feel like the execution isn't great. Maybe if they could optimize it and add a real cab sim or even just an IR loader. I tried to load NadIR and it gives me a message that it's not "a compatible 32-bit Intel VST plug-in." What? It can't load a 64 bit plugin?

When the dust cleared, I have no idea why anyone would pay for this thing. $249? I think I got Amplitube Max 5 v2, Tonex Max and T-Racks for like $100. I really like Late Replies, but this? No thanks.

[paramita123]

What? It can't load a 64 bit plugin?

When the dust cleared, I have no idea why anyone would pay for this thing. $249? I think I got Amplitube Max 5 v2, Tonex Max and T-Racks for like $100. I really like Late Replies, but this? No thanks.

Whether people like Blue Cat Axiom sound and UX is personal.
But cost for money, ouch, this is old tech and prices from 15 years ago.
Even their website screams old tech.
I've tried several free amp sims that can do about as much, add Kilohearts and Deelay, Supermassive, a bunch of Nembrini or Ignite Amps free plugins, and you got a nice rig for free.

And again in the spirit of my post, I find it a bit boring to just "emulate" classic hardware. Great sounds and great functionality matter, and it would be nice to see some evolution. I tried Neural DSP Rabea, whilst not as good as I hoped, still shows some innovative approach.
We're gonna see some old companies go bust and some new innovative stuff come up.

[zerocrossing]

What? It can't load a 64 bit plugin?

When the dust cleared, I have no idea why anyone would pay for this thing. $249? I think I got Amplitube Max 5 v2, Tonex Max and T-Racks for like $100. I really like Late Replies, but this? No thanks.

Whether people like Blue Cat Axiom sound and UX is personal.
But cost for money, ouch, this is old tech and prices from 15 years ago.
Even their website screams old tech.
I've tried several free amp sims that can do about as much, add Kilohearts and Deelay, Supermassive, a bunch of Nembrini or Ignite Amps free plugins, and you got a nice rig for free.

And again in the spirit of my post, I find it a bit boring to just "emulate" classic hardware. Great sounds and great functionality matter, and it would be nice to see some evolution. I tried Neural DSP Rabea, whilst not as good as I hoped, still shows some innovative approach.
We're gonna see some old companies go bust and some new innovative stuff come up.

I guess it comes down to how you like to get to your destination. Not having something specific emulated, and a lot to tweak, is one route, but another is providing a bunch of models and cabs and mics and going that route. IK provides its own models too, as does Line6. It's not that uncommon. I find I get enough variation by just mixing and matching. What does a 5150 sound like though a Fender Champ cab? What if I use a Tonex capture of a Friedman BE-100 head as a stomp box before a Vox AC30? I try stuff like that all the time, often with very interesting results. I also do a lot of duel or even triple path amp path setups. Plus, when you have Tonex, you have access to so many crazy captures of weird stuff, or odd stomp/amp combos. Boutique stuff that will never be modeled. Unique sounds that are great are not one of my problems.

[spoontechnique]

Line 6's Helix Native doesn't have a skeuomorphic GUI. Everything is very consistent, which I Iike.

I have Kazrog Ampcraft, and that's enough for me.

[paramita123]

Line 6's Helix Native doesn't have a skeuomorphic GUI. Everything is very consistent, which I Iike.

I have Kazrog Ampcraft, and that's enough for me.

I didn't know Kazrog had an amp sim. Haven't tried, but the demo sounds good.
Quick question then do you (and others) use a foot controller to control amp sims? Just switches or pedals?