Software vs Hardware

[zerocrossing]

An incredible amount of successful music has been produced by using just whatever instruments were available at the time of production.

People miss this fact. So many Platinum selling records were recorded just using the pianos/organs/Synths that just happened to be at the studio the record label or management booked to record the record

Exactly! And why do the record labels and managers still book studio time for artist in real studios or with producers who have real studios? Why don't they just send the artist to the guy with the laptop who has all the plugins?

Lol here in LA where I am, you would be surprised how many artist want to work with hardware synths and outboard gear. One record I worked on in January, the artist reached out to me because I've built relationships over the years with talented individuals, and I like to nerd out about gear and plugins with tons of artist/writers/producers so they know what I've got, or that I'm always exploring sound so I've likely got something interesting in the studio to spark creativity for them (on top of being a multi instrumentalist and artist myself).

So while it's always about the song, great gear does help make songs better.

Billie Eilish's WHEN WE FALL ASLEEP, WHERE DO WE GO? was recorded in a bedroom with a UAD Apollo interface and native plugins. I seem to remember it did pretty well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_We_A ... #Accolades

But that's also too simplistic in the other direction. It has always been "right tool for the right job" and it always will be. It's silly to say that every artist needs to book time in a full studio to record an album. I don't even believe that you believe your own b.s. If you're using a lot of acoustic and traditional instruments... that's a different story. Getting good recordings of mic'd instruments is a totally different story. For instance, I don't even own a guitar amp anymore, because I don't have a proper room, and live in an urban environment. The place I lived before here was on the Amtrack line and there was often the sound of a train happening. Sometimes freight trains would make these long metal-on-metal moaning sounds that could go on for minutes. Beautiful, in a disturbing kind of way, but unless you're helping David Lynch (RIP) on a soundtrack, not great.

Anyway, I've spent A LOT of time carefully going between hardware and software in comparisons and I can confidently say that to assert one is "better" than the other is false. A much more productive way to think of it is "what am I trying to accomplish?" Hardware can be great for some things, software can be great at some things. I sold a 3rd Wave module because I found Waldorf's Microwave 1 plugin to be significantly better for getting the kind of vintage hybrid wavetable sounds, and as a VA, any number of plugins were as good or better. I think the cult of the Access Virus (of which I was a member in good standing for many years) is funny, because modern plugins are better in every measurable way, and you can even run your Virus on an emulator and have it as a pure plugin.

Sometimes keeping a hardware synth is about the feature set. I think some people are under the impression that software is always going to be more feature rich than hardware, but usually there is a price for those features. So the PolyBrute lives in my studio because I never have to worry that it's going to alias or sound dull at doing audio rate stuff, and it's got a feature set that one would expect on a plugin. I probably could match most of its features using something like MSoundFactory, but it wouldn't have that analog vibe. That's a feature to me, the character. Sometimes a synth can have nothing really unique about it, but just have a certain character that makes me like it.

All that said, none of that is necessary to create great sounding music. If I had to give up my hardware, I'd be sad about it for a bit, and then continue making music, as I always have. With the tools available to me.

[IvyBirds]

Jack Antonoff would disagree https://www.musicradar.com/news/jack-an ... s-oberheim

Great link, don't you love this quote

"There’s so many beautiful qualities to both. When I'm alone and I'm in a small space, whether it's my studio or laptop,"

Weird how he loves being with laptop you know the things you pretend professionals don't use

Also weird and rather hilarious that you believe his bullshit that he has "never used MIDI" while producing music on a laptop

But sure I want the all vintage analog studio of hipster dreams and brag about never using MIDO while saying how much I enjoy my laptop

Apparently it fools people like yourself, and that's always a good laugh

[pdxindy]

Also weird and rather hilarious that you believe his bullshit that he has "never used MIDI" while producing music on a laptop

I have multiple friends who produce music on a laptop and never use midi.

They record instruments, their voice, sample stuff, use found samples, cut stuff up on the timeline and add some FX. They work entirely in audio.

[zerocrossing]

That moment when you realise your super awesome hardware synth is basically just a VST in a box with a dedicated midi controller.

Or that moment when you finally realize, all those VSTs you have are not quite like hardware synths after all

Or the moment you realize how much HW you can replace with SW that will give you extra space for a more unique HW synths while you think about why you payed so much for those hw synths when they could easilly be replaced for 10% of the price or lower.

Imagine you drive a Ferrari, and a guy pulls up next to you driving a Honda Civic and says "hey man you know your car is overpriced and I can drive these roads the same as you in my Honda Civic!!"

No matter what you tell that guy about your Ferrari, he only knows what it's like to drive a Honda Civic. And everyone who drives supercars are idiots and phonies wasting money in his eyes. So likewise when someone says "hey you can replace all those expensive hardware synths with cheap software synths and get the same results!" I just think about the Honda Civic guy smh.

Note to self: stop wasting time on the internet

Happy music making everyone!

Sorry but you lost me there
Are you trying to tell me that owning the most expensive HW's is all about the coolness factor

Btw. a 2005 Toyota Yaris driver here and yes It still manage to get me from A to B so it is just as usefull as another Car

This analogy totally breaks because the end goals are not remotely similar. You're stupid if you buy a Ferrari and you use it to sit in traffic every morning to get to work. That's not why people buy Ferraris, though. I remember passing a McLaren on my way to work one day, as my all electric Focus was eligible to drive in the HOV lane, and his super car was not. If you want to spend a bunch of money on a commuter car, at least get something that's really comfortable.

Inversely, if you're out on a twisty mountain road that's empty, my Focus isn't fun. It's not built to be. So you are mixing fun and functional, and while there can be overlap, we're sort of talking about extremes.

With a synthesizer, the goal is always to produce a sound. Some might find a Jupiter 8 fun to use, but I find Jup-8 V a lot more fun. In this case it's so subjective that you can throw this out. It's like me arguing with my daughter that mushrooms are delicious. No amount of words can change her opinion. You can analyze the characteristics of the sound they make, so that's useful to talk about.

[rod_zero]

Hardware vs Software? Hardware wins for me (and quite easily) despite my username

1. The speed of designing and working with patches is infinitely faster than midi (or mouse and keyboard).
2. You can achieve sounds in hardware that are not achievable in software (despite what plugin companies tell you).
3. Expression! The Keybed on most synths are far, far superior to even the most premium midi keyboards.
4. Saves tons of resources on your studio CPU, allowing you to work faster and stack sounds faster and more efficiently with a greater overall sound quality.
5. The RAW sound (no effects or gimmicks) just has a different weight that software just hasn't got right yet.

Hardware Synths are musical instruments, and musical instruments by design are the best way to create musical ideas. I want my studio computer to help capture and shape my ideas, not be the only instrument in my studio. THAT would be a sad studio to create in for me.

Worth noting that I look at it from a professional musicians standpoint. Hobbyist may not share the same fondness for the creative process which I understand. Different worlds!

All 5 of them are utterly BS.

1.- Many HW synths have way worst interfaces that SW, and the ones that are inmediate are the simpler ones, stuff like waldorf quantumm has still quite a bit of menu diving.
2.- Like what? Analog FM? there are way more stuff that is harder for HW than for software, modular polyphonic synths being a a good example, and then modeled stuff that doesn't exist that much in HW.
3.- Good key action is not common in neither, most HW synths come with quite mediocre keys nowadays, to start in both cases the most popular brand of the key action is fatar used by moog, nord, waldorf, arturia and many more. Only Roland and Korg makes their own action and they don't always use their best. Behringer, well some of the worst key actions in the market.
4.- Ah yeah cause recording takes is fast... also current CPUs can handle a lot, here I can run 20 instances of diva in a modest i5 12600k plus effects and other virtual instruments, but if you go for even more efficient plugins as Hive then that goes into the hundreds.
5.- Again nobody can point to a released song and say with 100% confidence what was used just by listening.

[zerocrossing]

An incredible amount of successful music has been produced by using just whatever instruments were available at the time of production.

People miss this fact. So many Platinum selling records were recorded just using the pianos/organs/Synths that just happened to be at the studio the record label or management booked to record the record

Exactly! And why do the record labels and managers still book studio time for artist in real studios or with producers who have real studios? Why don't they just send the artist to the guy with the laptop who has all the plugins?

For the same reasons they don't send the artist to the guy with a room full hardware synths

Jack Antonoff would disagree https://www.musicradar.com/news/jack-an ... s-oberheim

But I guess he's not a professional either and Taylor Swift should just come to you with your laptop and VSTs? LOL how inconsiderate of Jack Antonoff to use an Oberheim OB-8 on Taylor Swifts album! He better wake up and start using VSTs only or he's gonna lose clients to guys like you!!

Bringing up what Taylor Swift does is akin to Godwin's law. Artists like her are actually edge cases. Plus, she uses a lot of traditional instruments in her work, so it makes sense for her to record in a studio.

That said, aside from the traditional instruments, you could easily replace the OB-8 on any of her songs with GForce's plugins and they'd sound just as good. I live with a huge Swifty and I've heard all those albums (a lot).

[IvyBirds]

Imagine you drive a Ferrari, and a guy pulls up next to you driving a Honda Civic and says "hey man you know your car is overpriced and I can drive these roads the same as you in my Honda Civic!!"

No matter what you tell that guy about your Ferrari, he only knows what it's like to drive a Honda Civic. And everyone who drives supercars are idiots and phonies wasting money in his eyes. So likewise when someone says "hey you can replace all those expensive hardware synths with cheap software synths and get the same results!" I just think about the Honda Civic guy smh.

Note to self: stop wasting time on the internet

Happy music making everyone!

Imagine thinking your artistry and professionalism is somehow defined by gear and thinking somehow a hardware synth is a Ferrari and a VST is some random commuter car

When I think of most hardware synths compared with modern plugins I think of them being a horse and buggy. It's awesome to ride horses and even horse and buggies are cool. My Son lives in Amish Country in Pennsylvania when I go see him I often see Amish riding around with them

For the Amish a horse and/or buggy is just a tool to get them from point A to point B. A Honda Civic is also a tool getting you from point A to point B

For many people their identity is based on the objects they own. So for the Amish the object is a horse to them it's special as only the heathens drive cars. For a billionaire that same object could be a horse they spent tens of millions on because they want to ride horses just like the Amish

For me and many others I don't care much about how I get from point A to point B by goal is just to get to point B. As such in 2025 I use a lot of plugins, in 1985 I used all hardware, in 1995 again all hardware with a computer sequencer. In 2005 I had mainly hardware with a few software pieces , In 2015 it was 50/50, and now it's pretty much all software and the only hardware I own is my gigging board, and hardware pieces that are not worth the hassle of selling

The destination is the only thing that matters to me. In 2025 there is simply no new hardware synth so unique that it's destination is worth the money

[IvyBirds]

Also weird and rather hilarious that you believe his bullshit that he has "never used MIDI" while producing music on a laptop

I have multiple friends who produce music on a laptop and never use midi.

They record instruments, their voice, sample stuff, use found samples, cut stuff up on the timeline and add some FX. They work entirely in audio.

And did they produce the last Taylor Swift record?

[pdxindy]

The place where hardware is far far superior (for me), is when a couple friends come over to play music. We always use physical instruments.

It's spontaneous, fun and sometimes something deeper. It's f*cking awesome to get in a groove with other musicians. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never had that with other musicians when software was involved.

[SoftSynthLover99]

Jack Antonoff would disagree https://www.musicradar.com/news/jack-an ... s-oberheim

Great link, don't you love this quote

"There’s so many beautiful qualities to both. When I'm alone and I'm in a small space, whether it's my studio or laptop,"

Weird how he loves being with laptop you know the things you pretend professionals don't use

Also weird and rather hilarious that you believe his bullshit that he has "never used MIDI" while producing music on a laptop

I never said professionals don't use laptops lol I've just clearly pointed out to you that professionals also use hardware and quite a lot of the records they work on are done with hardware.

Also he is probably being honest regarding midi cause as I told you earlier in the thread, many producers do not like to deal with midi and instead bounce to audio. Dealing with audio is always preferable over midi. But I guess neither me nor Jack Antonoff know what we are talking about? Lol

[SoftSynthLover99]

Jack Antonoff would disagree https://www.musicradar.com/news/jack-an ... s-oberheim

This is very good advice from J.A.:
“What I love about older, analogue instruments is that you truly can't duplicate the sound. Every time you turn it on, it’s on. The electricity, the f**king weather, all these things are changing the feeling of it. So it's nice to know when you're in the studio that you're creating something that can only happen right there. Because at the end of the day, I don't want to be able to duplicate things, I want to catch moments. I think vintage gear is very helpful for that.”
Music is like a snapshot of our perception of reality, it exists in a moment. It's different every time. Acoustic and vintage analog instruments are more suitable for this kind of work.
Of course you can write, edit and re-do track for a month, or even a year, but in the end it's going to be soulless...

Interesting, one of my tracks which I really liked long ago, I did mess with it for a couple of weeks, but the best version is actually a unique export because I lost the project file. I lost it because when I did the best version, I wasn't thinking about total recall, and how I will be able to edit something tomorrow or next week - I was completely into it at the moment. So that is the principle to get interesting sound, you have to be in that moment and know yourself.

And that requires 100% dedication and practice - it is NOT for a hobbyist!

You've got the right outlook my friend 100%!!

[IvyBirds]

Jack Antonoff would disagree https://www.musicradar.com/news/jack-an ... s-oberheim

Great link, don't you love this quote

"There’s so many beautiful qualities to both. When I'm alone and I'm in a small space, whether it's my studio or laptop,"

Weird how he loves being with laptop you know the things you pretend professionals don't use

Also weird and rather hilarious that you believe his bullshit that he has "never used MIDI" while producing music on a laptop

I never said professionals don't use laptops lol I've just clearly pointed out to you that professionals also use hardware and quite a lot of the records they work on are done with hardware.

Also he is probably being honest regarding midi cause as I told you earlier in the thread, many producers do not like to deal with midi and instead bounce to audio. Dealing with audio is always preferable over midi. But I guess neither me nor Jack Antonoff know what we are talking about? Lol

And I never said that professionals don't use hardware and even said that I use hardware

But they also use software and laptops and lots of it, and your bullshit idea that professionals use hardware because of speed is just plain bullshit

But again to you hardware gives you wood and you think it's like Ferrari or something. It's not they are the cars that rich middle aged men buy that they think makes them look cool when they can't get it up any more and need to compensate

[SoftSynthLover99]

Imagine you drive a Ferrari, and a guy pulls up next to you driving a Honda Civic and says "hey man you know your car is overpriced and I can drive these roads the same as you in my Honda Civic!!"

No matter what you tell that guy about your Ferrari, he only knows what it's like to drive a Honda Civic. And everyone who drives supercars are idiots and phonies wasting money in his eyes. So likewise when someone says "hey you can replace all those expensive hardware synths with cheap software synths and get the same results!" I just think about the Honda Civic guy smh.

Note to self: stop wasting time on the internet

Happy music making everyone!

The destination is the only thing that matters to me. In 2025 there is simply no new hardware synth so unique that it's destination is worth the money

The age old saying "It's about the journey, not the destination" is still the truth for me. I want to enjoy the journey of creating and exploring sound. I'm not so jaded by time that I want to just get to the end and be done with it. Not judging you for having your process though, but I'm looking forward to the journey and the process of making music not just the finish line. And the tools you use to get there definitely matter if you ask me.

[SoftSynthLover99]

Jack Antonoff would disagree https://www.musicradar.com/news/jack-an ... s-oberheim

Great link, don't you love this quote

"There’s so many beautiful qualities to both. When I'm alone and I'm in a small space, whether it's my studio or laptop,"

Weird how he loves being with laptop you know the things you pretend professionals don't use

Also weird and rather hilarious that you believe his bullshit that he has "never used MIDI" while producing music on a laptop

I never said professionals don't use laptops lol I've just clearly pointed out to you that professionals also use hardware and quite a lot of the records they work on are done with hardware.

Also he is probably being honest regarding midi cause as I told you earlier in the thread, many producers do not like to deal with midi and instead bounce to audio. Dealing with audio is always preferable over midi. But I guess neither me nor Jack Antonoff know what we are talking about? Lol

But they also use software and laptops and lots of it, and your bullshit idea that professionals use hardware because of speed is just plain bullshit

Guess you missed this quote from Jack in the article I'm completely out of the box with gear. I've never used a MIDI instrument in my life

A lot of producers use the laptops and DAW like a tape machine. To capture real instruments and synths. And yes hardware is immediate and fast. I'm not sure why that makes you angry LOL did you sell some really good analog Synths back in the day that are now worth 20x more if you would have waited or something?

[BONES]

The problem is, In-the-box systems have quite limited life span. When you get DX7, JP-8000, or even older analog, it's not irrational to expect it will last you a lifetime. You bought it for the characteristic sound. Sure, some components go bad, but usually it's possible to replace them.

WTF!?! I still have access to virtual instruments I first got 25 years ago. OTOH, I've never in my 40+ year "career" held onto a hardware synth for more than two or three years before it became obsolete or something better came along.

With PCs, it's different. I'd say you have 7-8 years on average before the system becomes outdated.

WTF!?! I buy a new PC every year and everything keeps working from one machine to the next. OTOH, you can't keep buying hardware synths forever, you eventually run out of space for them, so you have to get rid of old hardware to make way for new synths.

Either you cannot use new instruments (including new versions of old VSTis) without issues, or computer components begin to malfunction, or both.

WTF!?! What sort of shitty computers are you buying? More to the point, why do they need to last more than a couple of years, given that they only get better, faster and cheaper all the time?

So basically, if you invested $200 in a soft synth, after some 8 years it's vaporized.

WTF!?! Name one $200 VSTi that you could buy in 2015 that won't run on a new computer today.

On the other hand, if you got classic hardware for $2000, it's highly likely the value goes up after 8 years.

It's also highly likely that you will have to spend hundreds of dollars a year to keep it running. Money you could be spending on plugins or more RAM!

Hardware takes space, it's expensive, impractical to use (cables, audio recording, sync issues). But it lasts much longer than any PC. The sound you like stays with you.

Bullshit! Hardware only lasts as long as the components in it, just like a computer. The difference is that in the highly unlikely event your computer fails, you can just buy a new one and move all your plugins across to it. You can't do that with hardware. Hardware is fragile, it breaks all the f**king time. Since we moved to working ITB, the number of technical issues we've had on stage and in the studio has reduced by an order of magnitude or more. Switching to virtual instruments has made our lives so much easier than they were that hardware is not even an option any more. I currently own 7 hardware synths and it is probably 18 months since I have even switched any of them on. The two big ones are currently up for sale at a second-hand place and I'll probably end up giving the rest of them away.

And of course, new instruments very rarely implement multithreading. Any new VSTi would run perfectly with multithreading, even on old CPUs with lots of threads. Simple graphics + multithreading = long life PC (unless something burns of course).

WTF!?! Your plugins don't care how many threads they are running on, they just f**king work. What drugs are you on? BTW, using the GPU for tasks other than graphics is becoming more common everywhere but that doesn't mean your plugins won't work without it. It just means they'll take advantage of it if they can.

if I'd want to take music more seriously, would I be frustrated with PCs.

Quite the opposite, it's hardware that would drive you nuts. So many stupid, little problems that you don't have to deal with ITB, like noisy pots, noisy leads/jacks, mains hum, etc., etc., etc. The list is almost endless.

In some ways they are more practical than dedicated audio hardware and the sound is really great, but there are so many bugs, issues, incompatibilities to fix.

WTF!?! Compared to hardware, working ITB is hassle-free. I hear people talking about all these problems but, mostly, everything just works for me. I have two ongoing issues with Studio One that have zero impact on my ability to work or perform. If I wasn't so stupid, and didn't buy a new computer every 9 months, the biggest of them wouldn't be an issue at all and I have a simple workaround to avoid the other issue that is 100% effective. It's only moving things from one computer to another that causes me even the slightest amount of grief.

It seems that computer musician doesn't actually have time to think about the music he creates. He's a software engineer and a beta tester. There's too much distractions.

With hardware you need to be a sound engineer, able to chase down all kinds of stupid issues you never have to worry about in software. All you end up doing is spending a shit-tonne of money to trade one set of problems for a different set of more difficult and expensive problems. Working ITB is an absolute no-f**king-brainer if you want a simple, consistent and hassle-free experience.