Korg multi/poly native - reimagined Mono/Poly Synthesizer plugin

[Hanz Meyzer]

Any idea how I can make the motion sequencer restart on new key press?

[mentooool]

played with it for about 10 minutes and here's what i found:

. no free-running oscillators (not very analog-like)
. waveshaper berkeley mode crashes the synth if pushed to the max (unlike the hardware)
. some words (eg. drift & voice variation/scale all or oscillator/octave) are blurred
. some words are broken and unreadable (eg. mixer filter routing)
. some words are randomly shortened (eg. sequenc... or effec...)
. everything looks the same, meaning that there aren't any differences between different sections of the same layer or between the layers themselves; considering the complex architecture of the synth this is particularly bad and confusing
. no midi learning in sight
. sounds great

[Hanz Meyzer]

Here some atmospheric sequence programmed in the remote editor for the multi/poly (inspired by wc olo):
https://hanzmeyzer.com/multipoly%20dream%20seq.m4a

I still have to figure out how to restart the motion sequencer, how to disable the arp only for one layer, and how to even more fine control the envelopes...

[Gam456]

I still have to figure out how to restart the motion sequencer, how to disable the arp only for one layer, and how to even more fine control the envelopes...

Nice, the arp on the hardware is global

[Rastkovic]

played with it for about 10 minutes and here's what i found:

. no free-running oscillators (not very analog-like)

That wouldn't make any sense for a synth like this, if you think about it. You would also hear it in the presets. Just tested quick the classic oscillator model, and of course they are free-running.

EDIT: All three oscillator models are free-running. Tested.

classic-model.jpg

[zerocrossing]

played with it for about 10 minutes and here's what i found:

. no free-running oscillators (not very analog-like)
. waveshaper berkeley mode crashes the synth if pushed to the max (unlike the hardware)
. some words (eg. drift & voice variation/scale all or oscillator/octave) are blurred
. some words are broken and unreadable (eg. mixer filter routing)
. some words are randomly shortened (eg. sequenc... or effec...)

I've not seen any of that. Maybe some issue with your DAW?

. everything looks the same, meaning that there aren't any differences between different sections of the same layer or between the layers themselves; considering the complex architecture of the synth this is particularly bad and confusing

Wholeheartedly agree. This definitely could use a UI art pass, for sure. I think it's generally laid out OK, but there needs to be some visual cues to break things up by types.

. no midi learning in sight
. sounds great

Agree on both counts. Why isn't right-click-MIDI learn a standard thing?

[miloszz]

I completely ignored the hardware when it came out - in an age of $400 polyphonic analog synths like the Xerxes virtual analog just wasn't on my radar.

After watching some plugin videos... I'm interested in the hardware. It doesn't seem like a particularly pleasant thing to program with a mouse and keyboard but the engine sounds good.

[tumface]

played with it for about 10 minutes and here's what i found:

. no free-running oscillators (not very analog-like)

That wouldn't make any sense for a synth like this, if you think about it. You would also hear it in the presets. Just tested quick the classic oscillator model, and of course they are free-running.

EDIT: All three oscillator models are free-running. Tested.

They remember their position but I think they don't oscillate continuously at the last played frequency, silently, when notes aren't being played. Maybe that's what mentooool meant? But I think most poly synths are like that, where the oscillators freeze when not being played. I always forget which is the normal behavior. I should test it later today.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Nice, the arp on the hardware is global

Ah thanks. Well, it doesn't make a lot of sense that it is then running for all the layers at once. It could be still global, yet be individually applied.

[Gam456]

The velocity realy suck. Vcf is based on semi tone. Increase de value make de enveloppe more louder. The Vca is the opposite and obviously not based on semi tone. Wtf Korg ? I can't find the subtle velocity like Diva does. For the Vcf the solution is to not use 100% of the enveloppe and increase the velocity. Weird

The sequencer do

Nice, the arp on the hardware is global

Ah thanks. Well, it doesn't make a lot of sense that it is then running for all the layers at once. It could be still global, yet be individually applied.

I know a weird decision

They remember their position but I think they don't oscillate continuously at the last played frequency, silently, when notes aren't being played.

Yes the phase won't reset

[tumface]

They remember their position but I think they don't oscillate continuously at the last played frequency, silently, when notes aren't being played.

Yes the phase won't reset

Yeah. Well, phase reset and continuously running oscillators are two separate things. You can have both, one of either, or neither. I think the normal thing for poly synths is to have oscillators which "freeze" when not being played (I guess the frequency input drops to 0 when note is released for that voice?) And mono synths often have oscillators which don't freeze, and keep running even when the note is released, latching to the last played frequency. And then a phase reset option could be added for either one of those modes.

For synths like Serum, and a bunch of others, the state of each voice is cleared when a voice is deallocated, so the options are to either randomize the phase at note on, or to use the same phase every time, or a random sub-range.

Hive has the option to do either, with its "Flow" phase mode on oscillators. But, IIRC, it doesn't free-run in the background when no notes are playing. Which is what I'd expect from a poly synth.

[Gam456]

They remember their position but I think they don't oscillate continuously at the last played frequency, silently, when notes aren't being played.

Yes the phase won't reset

Yeah. Well, phase reset and continuously running oscillators are two separate things. You can have both, one of either, or neither. I think the normal thing for poly synths is to have oscillators which "freeze" when not being played (I guess the frequency input drops to 0 when note is released for that voice?) And mono synths often have oscillators which don't freeze, and keep running even when the note is released, latching to the last played frequency. And then a phase reset option could be added for either one of those modes.

For synths like Serum, and a bunch of others, the state of each voice is cleared when a voice is deallocated, so the options are to either randomize the phase at note on, or to use the same phase every time, or a random sub-range.

Hive has the option to do either, with its "Flow" phase mode on oscillators. But, IIRC, it doesn't free-run in the background when no notes are playing. Which is what I'd expect from a poly synth.

They stop running in background to save cpu usage. I don't thing analog hardware work in that way.
Some explanation from URs

viewtopic.php?t=163398

[tumface]

We are talking about the same thing. I think you didn't read what I wrote.

edit: OK, you've edited your message, and now you are pointing out something worth thinking about. Analog poly synth hardware may not work the same way with the oscillators freezing. I'm not sure what a physical analog polysynth will do with the inactive oscillators. Do they freeze, or keep running? I would have assumed they would freeze if the circuit cuts off the input voltage for the oscillator's frequency when the amp envelope falls to 0. Maybe it's different depending on the synth? I've never tested this when I've had an analog poly synth in front of me to test.

An easy way to test is to take two oscillators on the same voice and detune them slightly, to produce a phasing effect. When you let off the key and then press it again, does the phasing effect resume its position from where it left off last time, or does it keep running freely and advancing even if you aren't holding the note?

This test is also kinda the only time I've thought there would be an important distinction. When you tune the phasing/beating of two oscillators to match the rhythm of the song, or something like that, do you want the phasing/beating effect to stay synchronized to the "song," or to only advance when playing notes?

[PAK]

Re: Looks. The png’s appear to be in the open, so it should be possible to skin things to some degree?

The KAOSS function is placed front of stage for a reason. Many presets benefit from the X/Y pad. No pad to assign? Then you’ll miss a major point of the synth IE To move between the layers, isolate, blend, and generally add motion to sounds. A mouse doesn’t replicate touch control well, over this aspect, either. This is an area where the hardware has an advantage. The next one not so much...

When you move to the edit layer I don’t think it was wise to use up space for things like Pitch and Mod Knobs / Modulation, over presenting both the filter and amp envelopes simultaneously. All of them, along with the Mixer settings, could’ve been moved to the bottom, to allow for multiple envelope control.

Do that and you’d create a superior user editing experience to the hardware, which was built to a price point limiting things to one set of ASDR controls. Replicating this limitation in software, where you must toggle one envelope at a time, is poor use of interface space IMO. Even if the scopes along the bottom look quite nice.

[tumface]

It always brings the sound back over here as long as you reduce Gain for waveshaper to below 100.0 after it happens, and bypass the filter. Every time!

I messed around with this more, and figured out that it does come back every time if you bypass and then un-bypass the filter. I think a NaN gets stuck in the filter state and wrecks it, and bypassing/un-bypassing the filter clears the filter state. It's also per-voice, so depending on which and how many notes you play while the waveshaper is at 100.0, the filter state on some voices may be "poisoned" while others will be OK. A bypass/un-bypass fixes all of them.

The sustained NaN output in the image I posted earlier was from the Bitwig EQ+ and Limiter modules being poisoned by the NaN output from multi/poly native. I think the multi/poly native plugin is only outputting a short burst of NaNs. If I put a NaN-filtering plugin like DMG Audio TrackLimit after the multi/poly native but before the Bitwig plugins, the Bitwig plugins don't get their state wrecked.

I guess I could make a quick NaN detection plugin if I cared to look into it any further, but my interest in this bug is now fully exhausted with this forum post Hopefully they fix it in the next update.