Korg multi/poly native - reimagined Mono/Poly Synthesizer plugin

[pchase]

is it me or is this plugin completely broken in ableton 12 with a push 3 connected. changing a preset takes literally 1 minute as it goes through every single parameter. I can see it in my push as its going through settings and changing them. wtf?!

Yep, it's the same with all korg plugins. Change presets enough and the push becomes unusable. I tried restarting the push after finding a preset I liked but Ableton just crashed.

[mentooool]

(standalone version)


___________GUI
some words are shortened

w.jpg

some are broken

ww.jpg

some are blurred (especially when using smaller sizes eg. 90%)

www.jpg

note that u-he, softube, cherry audio, etc. work flawlessy


___________VCA TYPE
changing vca type has no effect on sound even when pushing drive; yes, the amp envelope times & curves change but what about level/saturation?



___________FREE-RUNNING OSCILLATORS
. load init preset
. set osc drift (in drift & voice variation panel) to 0
. enable osc 1 & 2, set both to classic and choose saw
. hold a note and look at the waveform
. disable osc 2 (while holding note)
. enable osc 2 again (while holding note); waveform is now different meaning that oscillators phase relation has changed; each time you repeat the process the resulting waveform changes, meaning that oscillators phase relation changes too; is this how (real) free-running oscillators works? what if i want oscillators phase to be exactly in sync (without syncing them)?

[aMUSEd]

(standalone version)


___________GUI
some words are shortened
w.jpg


some are broken
ww.jpg


some are blurred (especially when using smaller sizes eg. 90%)
www.jpg


note that u-he, softube, cherry audio, etc. work flawlessy


___________VCA TYPE
changing vca type has no effect on sound even when pushing drive; yes, the amp envelope times & curves change but what about level/saturation?



___________FREE-RUNNING OSCILLATORS
. load init preset
. set osc drift (in drift & voice variation panel) to 0
. enable osc 1 & 2, set both to classic and choose saw
. hold a note and look at the waveform
. disable osc 2 (while holding note)
. enable osc 2 again (while holding note); waveform is now different meaning that oscillators phase relation has changed; each time you repeat the process the resulting waveform changes, meaning that oscillators phase relation changes too; is this how (real) free-running oscillators work?; what if i want oscillators phase to be exactly in sync (without syncing them)?

Not seeing any of those weird text issues on my system in standalone or plugin version - tried everything from 50% to 150%

[Rastkovic]

___________FREE-RUNNING OSCILLATORS
. load init preset
. set osc drift (in drift & voice variation panel) to 0
. enable osc 1 & 2, set both to classic and choose saw
. hold a note and look at the waveform
. disable osc 2 (while holding note)
. enable osc 2 again (while holding note); waveform is now different meaning that oscillators phase relation has changed; each time you repeat the process the resulting waveform changes, meaning that oscillators phase relation changes too; is this how (real) free-running oscillators work?; what if i want oscillators phase to be exactly in sync (without syncing them)?

Yes, that's how free-running oscillators work. What you are probably looking for, is a phase reset option per oscillator. I didn't think that Multi/Poly offers this (you can only flip the polarity in the mixer section), I already searched in the manual yesterday.

(Hard) sync is not the same as a phase reset on key press.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Well, for an initial release, this synth is really good and in a solid state, in my opinion.

I guess Korg will fix the problems and add some obviously missing features and low hanging fruits. And let's do not forget this all runs 1:1 on a hardware, too!

Also optionally "use individual outputs" would be helpful like:
sum -> output 1/2 (just like now)
layer 1 -> output 3/4 (master eq disabled, "use individual outputs" activated)
layer 2 -> output 5/6 (master eq disabled, "use individual outputs" activated)
layer 3 -> output 7/8 (master eq disabled, "use individual outputs" activated)
layer 4 -> output 9/10 (master eq disabled, "use individual outputs" activated)
global reverb wet -> output 11/12 (master eq disabled, "use individual outputs" activated)

Since this synth has so much power, it is kind of a shame that you can't route the layers separately.

[Hanz Meyzer]

On the other side, I didn’t like the wavetable and wave shaping engines. Let’s say I have better sounding alternatives.

With all respect, I think you are wrong with this conclusion at least. Surely it's a bit difficult to get used to the shapers as a new user of this synth, the result might be random. But I already got really surprising, impressive sounds out of the waveshaper osc, actually this is my favorite osc type so far, created pleasantly sounding guitars which I couldn't create with any other synths this easily. I also love that Korg provided waveshapers from the 01W, I had that rompler and missed its waveshaper thing. But it sounds way better in the Multi/Poly.

As for the wavetable osc, I generally have a hard time to use wavetables and getting the result I imagined, simply due to lack of experience in wavetable usage. Lot of provided wavetables seem to be pretty harsh sounding, I miss the subtle ones. But I cannot see a lot of technical limitation in this osc, it's nice to have and has a simple, solid feature set.

You also can import your own wavetables (I though failed to import a wavetable which was exported from Vital). And surely you can import everything from the modwave. Endless colors...

[wintoid]

The randomise is great fun too

[EnGee]

On the other side, I didn’t like the wavetable and wave shaping engines. Let’s say I have better sounding alternatives.

With all respect, I think you are wrong with this conclusion at least. Surely it's a bit difficult to get used to the shapers as a new user of this synth, the result might be random. But I already got really surprising, impressive sounds out of the waveshaper osc, actually this is my favorite osc type so far, created pleasantly sounding guitars which I couldn't create with any other synths this easily. I also love that Korg provided waveshapers from the 01W, I had that rompler and missed its waveshaper thing. But it sounds way better in the Multi/Poly.

As for the wavetable osc, I generally have a hard time to use wavetables and getting the result I imagined, simply due to lack of experience in wavetable usage. Lot of provided wavetables seem to be pretty harsh sounding, I miss the subtle ones. But I cannot see a lot of technical limitation in this osc, it's nice to have and has a simple, solid feature set.

You also can import your own wavetables (I though failed to import a wavetable which was exported from Vital). And surely you can import everything from the modwave. Endless colors...

Well, about the wavetable engine, I'm sure. However, not so sure about the waveshaping engine as I didn't try to make my own presets. But what I noticed from the presets that it didn't have the depth that the analog does.

I'm getting picky more and more because I already have what I like (includes Korg synths). So, the question is what can Multi/Poly gives me that I don't have already?
The only thing that I don't have is emulation (or enhanced version) of Mono/Poly. I mean on par with ARP2600 and other emulations.

I will give the waveshaper osc another go, although not sure what advantage it has above other syntheses.

[tumface]

Does this happen with any envelope curve?

Yes, any of them.

[EvilDragon]

is it me or is this plugin completely broken in ableton 12 with a push 3 connected. changing a preset takes literally 1 minute as it goes through every single parameter. I can see it in my push as its going through settings and changing them. wtf?!

That is a Live bug with VST3 and program changes. They aren't fixing it for years now.

[frag]

This thing badly needs Multithread switch.

The sound is great, it's got "character" but it's neutral at the same time. Easy to arrange & mix. JP-8000 style superstring is easy to make with unison, sounds maybe even better than JP
They really nailed it... They've got lots of experience.

But let's say you use 4 layers in a performance, each with 4 oscs, each osc with 8 voice unison + dynamic voice allocation with long release. That's how much? It could be more than 2048 oscillators running at the same time!? Plus filters, fx!? Even the newest CPUs might choke - you can't pin 2048 oscillators on a single thread, Korg. The workaround is to split performance into multiple instances, but that's so many mouse clicks you forget what you wanted to play...

Don't get me wrong, I think Ultra 9 285K is actually CHEAP for what it does, but building new system is always risky and time consuming. You fix some bugs, you get as much as new bugs. Bad RAM stick, bad MB and after couple of months you have to setup everything again.
My old machine runs for 12 years without a hiccup, so please Korg, would you allow me to use my 24 threads?
This must be some sick joke - 2048 oscillators on a single thread, in the age of multithread CPUs

[tumface]

This thing badly needs Multithread switch.

This must be some sick joke - 2048 oscillators on a single thread, in the age of multithread CPUs

In-plugin multithreading has serious tradeoffs. It can work in some cases and when necessary, but it can limit how low the latency can go, has overhead, can cause thread priority issues, etc.

CLAP has a thread pool extension which improves the situation a lot for plugins that want to use extra threads to render audio, but VST3 and other formats leave plugins on their own to spawn their own threads and try to figure out how to both synchronize them fast enough to work at latencies below 256 samples, and to not steal time from CPU cores that the DAW is using to render other tracks (or whatever.) For example, Dune 3 has a multithreading switch, but recommends not using it at latencies around 128 samples and below.

That being said, I think this plugin is a good candidate for it. It has 4 layers that are very separated from each other, making it easy to put each one on its own thread. I bet the hardware version already does multi-threading, since you don't have to worry about interfering with a DAW and have control over thread affinity and... wait, doesn't the hardware multi/poly use a quad-core Raspberry Pi CM4? Is that why this has exactly 4 layers?

[EvilDragon]

Indeed it's a CM4 in there, 1.5 GHz quad-core. Unsure if they are processing a layer per core, though. Don't forget there's global FX after layers are summed, too, that would create an asymmetric load.

[tumface]

Indeed it's a CM4 in there, 1.5 GHz quad-core. Unsure if they are processing a layer per core, though. Don't forget there's global FX after layers are summed, too, that would create an asymmetric load.

That's true. I'm assuming they're staggering the workload with a bit of latency so they don't have to do everything in order (otherwise they'd have to render every layer before doing the global FX, and then 3 cores sit idle while 1 core does the global FX at the end...) so maybe they steal time from whichever core is the least loaded to do the global FX on.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

___________VCA TYPE
changing vca type has no effect on sound even when pushing drive; yes, the amp envelope times & curves change but what about level/saturation?

From my quick testing with the demo I got the impression that the drive is a standalone effect that doesn't change with VCA type as you describe. But I believe the VCA saturation is driven from the Level control. Try jacking the VCA Level up and compensating with the output volume. It's not a full-blown distortion at any setting, but it's doing something.