Software vs Hardware

[El°HYM]

What about this weird obsession with east germans?

[IvyBirds]

Most of us probably think your setup is insane, the difference is we respect your commitment!

Thanks, but why is it any different than people who have multiple hardware synths?

People that are into hardware synths like I used to be talk about how important it is to have physical controls, and dedicated instruments, so why is it insane to treat computers as dedicated instruments that offer more flexibility?

For example FM has always been my favorite synthesis method. If I had a hardware set up with a DX7, a TX817, a SY99, a TG77, TX816, DX100, CZ100, and a DX21 and arranged them all in a corner in my studio, most people wouldn't find that insane in synth forums. Many people would find that awesome, even if they were not into FM. That was my old FM setup BTW. So why is it insane to condense all of that into one "Super FM" synth that sits in the same corner?

Now if I had a ton of hardware synths all over my studio would it be insane to use a DAW to sequence all of them? Then would it be insane to use DANTE, MADI, or some other Digital Audio network protocol to send all of those to a digital mixer and/or DAW? Of course not most people on forums like this would find that awesome. So why is it insane to do exactly that and have multiple computers networked together for audio and MIDI?

Back in the day if I got an idea for a DX7 patch I would sit down with my DX7 and make it happen. Same with my D50, M1 and my Amiga. When it came time to record I would sit down in front of my Tascam PortaStudio and record it, mix it down, do overdubs etc. That's the way I learned to work and is still the way that works best for me. Maybe that's insane but I enjoyed it and still work that way

[El°HYM]

Because east germans couldnt build proper fm - synthesizers and matter of fact never did.

[IvyBirds]

What about this weird obsession with east germans?

Because Bones had said that the East German Industrial Chart is the only thing that matters to him

[seafire]

What about this weird obsession with east germans?

Because Bones had said that the East German Industrial Chart is the only thing that matters to him

East Germany didn't exist when he got into a chart.

[_leras]

Do you guys really care about what some old dinosaur has to say? I honestly and sincerely couldn't give a flying f**k what he or anyone else has to say on a subject like this.

You set em up, I'll knock em down.

I'm not sure HZ is saying much except how he works. Fair play to the guy he's clearly very good at making sound tracks.

Personally I think it's great for someone so high profile to show that the tools they use, are largely attainable by anyone.

[_leras]

If Hanz Simmer was the pro he claims to be, he would also run his software thru his hi-end hardware.

I'm sure he does.

Why would you look at him as if he's a problem? Major movie soundtracks using soft synths should be an inspiration to all.

[seafire]

Do you guys really care about what some old dinosaur has to say?

You're not that old are you?

[dellboy]

People that are into hardware synths like I used to be talk about how important it is to have physical controls, and dedicated instruments, so why is it insane to treat computers as dedicated instruments that offer more flexibility?

This is KVR, most people here do treat their computers as dedicated instruments. Some of us have all the usual plugins, and then add a few hardware synths because we like hardware synths. Its not usually an "either or thing". On top of my hardware synths, I have a Nektar Panorama P6, an Akai MPK 61, and two Novation Remotes. None of them in use. I have gone back to the mouse. I did drag out my two old Remotes a few weeks ago and tried programming them, and gave up after a few hours. When I include a hardware synth, I play it in live straight to audio.

[Uncle E]

People that are into hardware synths like I used to be talk about how important it is to have physical controls, and dedicated instruments, so why is it insane to treat computers as dedicated instruments that offer more flexibility?

More power to you. I think most of us understand the concept, we just can't imagine juggling all that ourselves. 100% respect to you that you can.

FWIW, I use a hardware synth as a controller and don't use its synth engine at all, simply because it's lain out in a way that makes sense to me and the functions are all labeled and segregated.

[pdxindy]

People that are into hardware synths like I used to be talk about how important it is to have physical controls, and dedicated instruments, so why is it insane to treat computers as dedicated instruments that offer more flexibility?

It's not insane. Lots of people aspire to it. I spent thousands of dollars on various midi controllers with that exact idea in mind.

The thing is, I have never arrived at a point where I just used them without thinking about it. They are a constant impediment and time suck until, with a sigh of relief, I get rid of them.

Then every year or two, someone exclaiming how good this or that midi controller is influences me to try again. The result is always the same.

I'm talking about the sort of midi controllers with a bunch of knobs/buttons. I love both my Linnstrument and Osmose for playing software synths.

[IvyBirds]

People that are into hardware synths like I used to be talk about how important it is to have physical controls, and dedicated instruments, so why is it insane to treat computers as dedicated instruments that offer more flexibility?

It's not insane. Lots of people aspire to it. I spent thousands of dollars on various midi controllers with that exact idea in mind.

The thing is, I have never arrived at a point where I just used them without thinking about it. They are a constant impediment and time suck until, with a sigh of relief, I get rid of them.

Then every year or two, someone exclaiming how good this or that midi controller is influences me to try again. The result is always the same.

I'm talking about the sort of midi controllers with a bunch of knobs/buttons. I love both my Linnstrument and Osmose for playing software synths.

My guess is you are approaching it backwards and trying to make the controller be forced to conform with the synth instead of trying to make the software synth conform to the controller

That's the mistake I made for a long time and felt exactly as you do now

The so called "eureka" moment for me was when I realized that most synths have the same controls that are pretty much universal

I know people either hate them or love them but look at software synths that are emulations of vintage synths and look like them, or have GUIs that look like a hardware synth with knobs and faders. You will find the same controls repeated over and over again from synth to synth. You will see this if you look at hardware synths also. A Minimoog, a Prophet 5, and and a Jupiter 8 all have pretty much the same controls. They are arranged differently on the front panel but for the most part they are the same.

So rather than try to make multiple controller setups that have to change with each software synth, make one master template that uses these common controls in a way that makes sense to you. Then assign those common controls from every synth to your master template

When you move beyond the Analog Classics from the 1970s and 1980s you will find synth designers used those same styles of controls for their Synths. The DX7, D50, and M1 were all very different from an M1 yet they still all have many of these same basic controls. They same is true of pretty much every plugin made today.

If I want to adjust the amplitude of Oscillator 1, Partial 1, Layer 1, Operator 1, or whatever it's called on an individual synth they are all controlled by the same fader every synth every time. Oscillator 2, Partial 2, Layer 2, Operator 2, or whatever is always controlled by the one right next to it, and I just keep on going.

Before I was trying to arrange those on different knobs or faders for each synth to approximate the screen layouts forcing to the controller to meld to the synth. That meant that I was trying to remember the layout of dozens of knobs and faders for each and every synth. Now I just need to know what 1 knob or fader is and if it's for Amplitude of Osc 1, I automatically know where Osc 2 is and just move down the row

IMHO this is why systems like Novation's Automap, Native Instruments NKS, and others like them frustrate many users. As those controls tend to move from synth to synth if you are using factory installed or downloaded templates or presets made by others or if you are trying to program them yourself without having a predefined master template you yourself have already created

The other "eureka" moment was realizing that I didn't need to map everything. For example I pretty much never map anything that switches waveforms from saw a Saw to a Triangle, I just use the mouse for that. Same for things that are drop down menus

[swilow11]

People that are into hardware synths like I used to be talk about how important it is to have physical controls, and dedicated instruments, so why is it insane to treat computers as dedicated instruments that offer more flexibility?

More power to you. I think most of us understand the concept, we just can't imagine juggling all that ourselves. 100% respect to you that you can.

FWIW, I use a hardware synth as a controller and don't use its synth engine at all, simply because it's lain out in a way that makes sense to me and the functions are all labeled and segregated.

Same here. My Argon8 is my main midi controller too. Really nice to play and has aftertouch and plenty of knobs to assign. I use the synth engine too, but its job 80% of the time is as a midi keyboard.

[BONES]

The reality is I have never caused an accident of any kind

And I've never been in one. Situational awareness will save you most times, even from a rear-ender at the lights. Harder when you're a kid, to be fair, but not as an adult.

As you have made it ABUNDANTLY clear on this thread and every other one you participate in on KVR there are Synths/plugins that BONES likes and there are Synths that BONES hates.

Maybe one or two but mostly it's the opinions of idiots who think average synths are great that I hate.

There is a workflow and computer setup that Bones likes and there are workflows and setups Bones doesn't like

No, there are lots of different ways to do things but very few that actually make sense. Do what you want, just don't try and tell everyone it's better when it clearly is not. And don't get your knickers in a twist when someone points out a few reasons that yours might not be one of the few.
Explain your decisions and choices, that can be really helpful, but don't pretend they were the best possible choices.

What you make abundantly clear between the personal insults and profanity laced diatribes that lead to your bannings is that for you there is one way if working and only certain instruments are acceptable

No, it's just that I'm not interested in your opinions when they don't make sense and I'd prefer that they not be accepted at face value because that's not helpful. e.g. I have more hardware than a lot of people but you don't see me trying to convince anyone else that they should buy hardware, do you? Why do you think that is?

If anyone dares to stray from what you think is the only way to make music with tools you approve of they are insulted, called mentally ill, and cussed at.

Not if what they are doing makes sense. And like most grown-ups, I "cuss" all the f**king time. Don't you watch television?

So for you, you have made it ABUNDANTLY clear that there are no genres in music there is only one yours, and as such everyone should make music like you do.

What I find ridiculous here is that you think that different genres need to be produced in a different way. It feels like such narrow thinking to me and it makes no sense. If I was producing a rock band or an acapella group, I'd do it the same way I produce our stuff. I might not use all the same tools but the process wouldn't be much different once I had the performances in the box and I'd still need everything I've learned doing our stuff to do a good job. How could it be otherwise? Where it would be different is in knowing how the finished product needs to sound. I can do that intuitively with my own music but I think a few reference tracks can make that easy enough when working in other genres.

You are the gate keeper and sole judge as to what is acceptable or not

Aren't you? How else could any of us be? I'm sure as hell not going to let someone else dictate what is and is not acceptable to me.

As such in your world I don't need to understand anything about the East German Industrial Charts, as you have already defined what is music and what is not

There is no "Industrial chart", they are Alternative charts, so we contend with all kinds of non-mainstream music. We've been in the same chart at the same time as Red Hot Chilli Peppers and The Psychedelic Furs, for example, which was quite a kick for us. Being in another with Taylor Swift was more hilarious than anything else but, at the same time, was pretty good validation for us.

Now if you are ready to admit you have been wrong, and there are many music genres

I've already pointed that out to you, when I told you that NIN was in a different genre to us. Weren't you paying attention?

as such people that make different types of music than you also want/need different tools and work differently than you do awesome

Again, I think I've made that abundantly clear already, simply by being dismissive of the stupid ones. There are a million possible answers to any question but the vast majority of them will be wrong. Just ask one on Google and see how many you get and how few actually answer the question you asked. Dealing with people is exactly like that, for slightly different reasons.

[BBFG#]