Software vs Hardware

[dionenoid]

*delete

[BONES]

BONES, the truth is there’s nothing wrong with how you think or see the world. We all have our own views and choices, and there’s no right or wrong – just difference. The issue is, you appear in most of your posts like someone who thinks that anyone who isn’t like you is a f***ing idiot.

Did you even read the post you're responding to? Did you not pick up on the tongue-in-cheek nature of it?

Or just hyper-defensive to hide and protect their own insecurities.

If that helps you feel better about yourself, why the f**k not? Doesn't make it within a bull's roar of true, though.

The real problem is that you all take yourselves way too seriously, you put too much of yourselves into your thought processes, you lack objectivity. You think that if you like something, it must be good. It would never occur to you that your choices might actually be shithouse ones.

I don't think like that, I tend to see my choices for what they are. Some are good, others are stupid. e.g. I keep buying hardware, even though I know that it's a stupid thing to do, that I'll noodle around with it for a while, try to work it into our live set-up, realise what a dumb idea that is and never touch the thing again. It's gotta be at least a year since I touched my Uno Pro and you've probably seen me frothing at the mouth about what a great little synth it is. I still believe that but, at the same time, I know I'll never touch it again. I should never have bought it, it was a stupid decision. In reality it is great for what it is but because it's hardware, it's not actually great. Because next to working ITB, hardware just can't be great. You can prefer it, and I have no trouble with that, but you can't objectively see it as great because it just isn't.

I have no problem living with the fact I'm an idiot, I don't really understand why it's a such a big issue for the rest of you.

[IvyBirds]

I have no problem living with the fact I'm an idiot, I don't really understand why it's a such a big issue for the rest of you.

Not everyone can live the dream of not having indoor plumbing, pooping in a bucket, of climbing the East German Industrial Charts as a Nine Inch Nails ripoff band, and claiming we don't have any insurance while also staying we do

[BONES]

BONES, the truth is there’s nothing wrong with how you think or see the world. We all have our own views and choices, and there’s no right or wrong – just difference. The issue is, you appear in most of your posts like someone who thinks that anyone who isn’t like you is a f***ing idiot.

Did you even read the post you're responding to? Did you not pick up on the tongue-in-cheek nature of it?

Or just hyper-defensive to hide and protect their own insecurities.

If that helps you feel better about yourself, why the f**k not? Doesn't make it within a bull's roar of true, though.

The real problem is that you all take yourselves way too seriously, you put too much of yourselves into your thought processes, you lack objectivity. You think that if you like something, it must be good. It would never occur to you that your choices might actually be shithouse ones.

I don't think like that, I tend to see my choices for what they are. Some are good, others are stupid. e.g. I keep buying hardware, even though I know that it's a stupid thing to do, that I'll noodle around with it for a while, try to work it into our live set-up, realise what a dumb idea that is and never touch the thing again. It's gotta be at least a year since I touched my Uno Pro and you've probably seen me frothing at the mouth about what a great little synth it is. I still believe that but, at the same time, I know I'll never touch it again. I should never have bought it, it was a stupid decision. In reality it is great for what it is but because it's hardware, it's not actually great.

Next to working ITB, hardware just can't be great. You can prefer it, and I have no trouble with that, but you can't objectively see it as great because it just isn't. You look at all your heroes form the 70s and 80s, look at what they managed to achieve with all that lovely hardware and think that's what you need to do but the reality is that all those guys moved on, they left all that shit behind. I saw The Stranglers last night, on their 50th Anniversary Tour, and their keyboard player isn't still using the ancient hardware that they were using during their most popular period. Like his predecessor, he was using a couple of Novation MIDI controllers to play all the EP and organ parts. I couldn't see what they were hooked up to but I'll guarantee it wasn't anything they were using even 10 years ago. Here's a shot of Dave's gear from 9 years ago. You can see he's using a CS1x, a cheap, shitty digital synth from the 90s (I had two of them), to bash out those incredible organ and EP parts, and he's got what looks like one of those cheap Chinese MIDI controllers to play the actual synth part. (Or is it a synth I don't recognise?) They moved on because they saw their old gear for what it was - krap.

Screenshot 2025-03-20 115307.png

I have no problem living with the fact I'm an idiot, I don't really understand why it's a such a big issue for the rest of you.

[frag]

Why are these knobs and MIDI controllers even important?

I usually setup the sound, and play the instrument. In fact, many great tracks are made with presets - it's not the timbre which makes them memorable, but composition.

[mambo888]

What do you adjust live apart from cutoff, resonance, wet/dry ratio for FX? Is it more than 8 knobs can handle?

When you have 40k+ presets in Nexus, Ominsphere, Arturia V collection, will you really sit down and start designing a preset from scratch for hours? Is it not easier to find a preset you like designed by a professional, tweak it or layer it with another sound if you have to? For that purpose mouse or touchscreen is perfectly suitable. Touch screen is the best for immediate visual feedback, while mouse for precision.

The idea is to move on from tweaking synths and start actually making music, record it and replay it any time you want. That is better handled in the DAW + midi controller. At some point you have to stop fussing about sound quality, authenticity, warmth, emotional connection and make a commitment to start actually making music with what you have. If your music sucks accept that it is you, not the gear and learn to like your own music style. Stop being hard on yourself and enjoy your hobby, learn to have fun.

[zerocrossing]

Why are these knobs and MIDI controllers even important?

I usually setup the sound, and play the instrument. In fact, many great tracks are made with presets - it's not the timbre which makes them memorable, but composition.

I'm with you on this, but I also know that not everyone works in the same way. Once, I tried something that I often see in electronic music, but I never really do on my own. I set up a sequence on my Dominion 1, and started tweaking the sound as the sequence played. The results were pretty cool, and I definitely could see the appeal of this type of thing, though it's not for me. Could it have been done with a MIDI controller that was set up correctly? Sure, but I think having a bespoke interface that's designed for a specific instrument is a much better experience.

[zerocrossing]

What do you adjust live apart from cutoff, resonance, wet/dry ratio for FX? Is it more than 8 knobs can handle?

An ADSR is already four parameters. Multiply that by 2 and all your knobs are assigned, and maybe your synth has an aux envelope.

[IvyBirds]

What do you adjust live apart from cutoff, resonance, wet/dry ratio for FX? Is it more than 8 knobs can handle?

When you have 40k+ presets in Nexus, Ominsphere, Arturia V collection, will you really sit down and start designing a preset from scratch for hours? Is it not easier to find a preset you like designed by a professional, tweak it or layer it with another sound if you have to? For that purpose mouse or touchscreen is perfectly suitable. Touch screen is the best for immediate visual feedback, while mouse for precision.

The idea is to move on from tweaking synths and start actually making music, record it and replay it any time you want. That is better handled in the DAW + midi controller. At some point you have to stop fussing about sound quality, authenticity, warmth, emotional connection and make a commitment to start actually making music with what you have. If your music sucks accept that it is you, not the gear and learn to like your own music style. Stop being hard on yourself and enjoy your hobby, learn to have fun.

One of the biggest things with Synths like Omnisphere that have layers even if all you are doing is tweaking a preset is to adjust the volume of each layer, you talk about tweaking a filter live the reason you do so is to change the timbre on a layered patch why wouldn't you also want to adjust the mix of the underlying layers?

If you are tweaking a preset why wouldn't you want to adjust the envelopes? If that preset is in Omnisphere and is using multiple layers why wouldn't you want to adjust the envelopes on multiple layers? If you are full screen editing one layer of the timbre what if you want to adjust the mix of how that layer sounds with the other layers? You could just adjust a physical fader which is easier and quicker than jumping out of one page and launching another, what if adjusted the mix and then realize you want to increase the attack of layer 3 so it comes in later relative to the mix of layer 1 and 5? And you are playing live, wouldn't it be easier to just quickly tweak a physical control for all of that than flipping a bunch of pages around with a mouse or touchscreen?

What if you want to make a layered patch with Diva, Omnisphere, and Serum? And adjust the envelope of one while tweaking something on another? Shall you jump back and forth between multiple pages of multiple plugins all inside of a DAW

The idea is to move on from tweaking synths across multiple pages and menus and start actually making music, record it and replay it any time you want just by grabbing an actual knob or fader

[crimsonwarlock]

..looks like one of those cheap Chinese MIDI controllers to play the actual synth part. (Or is it a synth I don't recognise?).

It's a CME midi controller, I have one in my studio

It can also be a synthesizer, as it has an expansion slot for that. Mine has a Waldorf Nano installed that I picked up for a tenner. I don't use the synth though, as the keyboard only has midi-out (of course, it's a controller) so I can't sequence the Waldorf board. I thought about sampling it, but with all the software that I have available, I can't be bothered with that, which goes to your point.

On a sidenote, it was indeed not expensive, but it is built like a tank, crazy quality actually.

[El°HYM]

I am the BONO!

Man, I have been pouring vegan ketchup on me cauliflower steak for Ages.

[Uncle E]

Heinz 57

[El°HYM]

Thats a good one! Might also be the one sir Bono has in his Fridge.

[BONES]

Man, I have been pouring vegan ketchup on me cauliflower steak for Ages.

My point was that we all have because it's made from tomatoes which, last time I looked, were not meat. It's like vegan lettuce or vegan potatoes.

[kritikon]

I have no problem living with the fact I'm an idiot, I don't really understand why it's a such a big issue for the rest of you.

It's not a big issue, I already know you're an idiot. Possibly a bigger idiot than me, I'm not sure. Idiots of the world unite!

What do you adjust live apart from cutoff, resonance, wet/dry ratio for FX? Is it more than 8 knobs can handle?

I don't adjust anything live, not as in front of an audience anyway. Wet/dry FX ratio is not anything I normally play with on the fly. I might want to play with sync, cross mod, LFO rate, mod depth, all kinds of crap.

When you have 40k+ presets in Nexus, Ominsphere, Arturia V collection, will you really sit down and start designing a preset from scratch for hours? Is it not easier to find a preset you like designed by a professional, tweak it or layer it with another sound if you have to? For that purpose mouse or touchscreen is perfectly suitable. Touch screen is the best for immediate visual feedback, while mouse for precision.

I don't have or want any of those synths. Your assertion has holes in it on so many levels.
1. Layering is for those that can't program synths properly. No need for it whatsoever - maybe the fact you use presets so much is why your sounds are so thin?
2. Yes I might sit for hours designing a preset. For me that's fun, though obvs not for you - see how everyone has completely different aims and modus operandi?
3.Touchscreen is utterly unsuitable for me.
4. Mouse is utterly unsuitable for me.

The idea is to move on from tweaking synths and start actually making music, record it and replay it any time you want. That is better handled in the DAW + midi controller. At some point you have to stop fussing about sound quality, authenticity, warmth, emotional connection and make a commitment to start actually making music with what you have. If your music sucks accept that it is you, not the gear and learn to like your own music style. Stop being hard on yourself and enjoy your hobby, learn to have fun.

No the idea is not necessarily to move on and make music. For me the actual process of diddling around with sound might be the aim. My fun is more often in the actual process than the end result. You assume your aims are the same for everyone - no, they're not. I used to argue endlessly with Bones, but don't nowadays. I understand what his aims/methods are and hopefully he understands mine - we'll never have the same aims/methods and no point whatsoever trying to prove either is right. His are not right for me, mine are not right for him. Actually Bones knows that. Many of you completely miss his humour - I suspect Bones has his tongue in his cheek most of the time, just that his delivery doesn't necessarily give that impression. He's just told us he's an idiot, so let's accept that. We're all idiots spending time on this, aren't we?