Korg multi/poly native - reimagined Mono/Poly Synthesizer plugin

[hcv242]

Do preset changing work instantly (without any perceivable lag) for you?
My system is BIOS/Win fully optimized, I know very well this stuff, but I have this lagginess that I'm not sure it depends from my system specs. Pretty much all other VST3s that I use don't have this problem

There is lag, but it's older machine.

is a macbook pro m1 an old machine ? everything else is blazing fast on this machine.

[IvyBirds]

Do preset changing work instantly (without any perceivable lag) for you?
My system is BIOS/Win fully optimized, I know very well this stuff, but I have this lagginess that I'm not sure it depends from my system specs. Pretty much all other VST3s that I use don't have this problem

As long as the plugin is already loaded, I am not noticing any significant lag relative to other plugins, maybe at most a half a second or less

[Gam456]

It's simply unbelievable that Multipoly HW is multithreaded, and software is not.
It's like we're living in 1999.

The CPU in the hardware is a BCM2837 processor, that is a 64-bit ARM Cortex-A53 based quad-core processor that runs at 1.2 GHz and has a single GB of RAM available to it

A single core in any modern CPU will be more powerful and therefore faster than all four cores in the BCM2837

Yet many people report crackling with multi-layer patches. Or full polyphony.
Why would we bother with MT, people will buy new PCs... Sure, I'm gonna waste 2-3 months of my life setting up completely new system from scratch, just because of couple of synths which I sometimes play for fun.
The worse thing is, some programmers don't even understand how to write multithreaded plugin.
It's 1999 all over again, it's Groundhog day

128 Diva instance, multi thread OFF

7950X.jpg

[IvyBirds]

Even after 3 years, I'm still fixing stuff on newer Windows 10 machine. It's bloatware, full of ridiculous bugs. 11 is even worse, only stripped down versions make sense.

Btw, you have some magic button which installs & sets up all programs you use, in one click?

On my current PC I started building it on a Friday evening. Finished on a Saturday Morning. Took a break, had lunch, did a clean install of Windows 11 in the afternoon and then optimized the system removing and turning off junk that was not needed. Took another break watched a football game, ate some dinner. Came back to it and installed Cubase along with all the extras that come with that and went to bed

On Sunday morning I downloaded and installed all the relevant plugins I planned on migrating over to the new PC, along with Studio One, Acid Pro, and Protools, My sample library is on an attached NAS drive on my network. So copying those over was fast and easy

By that afternoon I was fully up and running with everything exactly like I wanted it in less than 48 hours. Keep in mind while I was doing all that I was also doing things on my other computers and this time includes actually building the PC

If I did not have a weekend to dedicate to this, I could have easily done it all over the course of a week or so spending a few hours in the evenings

I have a direct fiber connection to my house that is blazing fast, I can download just as a fast as the server on the other end allows

that helps quite a bit also but even with a slower connection it wouldn't take that much longer

It's really not that hard and just takes a tiny bit of planning

Even if all you do is follow the advice at this link which shouldn't take very long

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/ar ... recording/

You should be well ahead of the game

[frag]

Do preset changing work instantly (without any perceivable lag) for you?
My system is BIOS/Win fully optimized, I know very well this stuff, but I have this lagginess that I'm not sure it depends from my system specs. Pretty much all other VST3s that I use don't have this problem

There is lag, but it's older machine.

is a macbook pro m1 an old machine ? everything else is blazing fast on this machine.

Well apparently everything is old machine, even the new one

[vscorpio]

After update 1.0.3 I get windows 11 system crash (blue death screen) whenever I try to set the audio driver to ASIO (all other plugins including all Korg Collection's ones still works perfectly)...any suggestion what is causing that issue?

I'm sorry that you're having difficulties. We have tested with ASIO and Windows 11, but there may be differences depending on the specific ASIO hardware.

It might be helpful to delete the preferences, in:
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\KORG\multipoly native

I have a few questions, which might help us in troubleshooting:

I assume that this is in the standalone version; does the plug-in work OK in your DAW host?

What version of multi/poly were you using previously?

Hi,
I tryed deletig preference but did not work.
Plugin does work ok in host using ASIO, but not the srandalone version.
All previous version ( not sure but I installed at least three time since it has been released: I am sure latedt was 1.0.2 so probably the other was 1.0.1 or 1.0.0) just after 1.0.3 it does not work with ASIO any longer.

[frag]

Even after 3 years, I'm still fixing stuff on newer Windows 10 machine. It's bloatware, full of ridiculous bugs. 11 is even worse, only stripped down versions make sense.

Btw, you have some magic button which installs & sets up all programs you use, in one click?

On my current PC I started building it on a Friday evening. Finished on a Saturday Morning. Took a break, had lunch, did a clean install of Windows 11 in the afternoon and then optimized the system removing and turning off junk that was not needed. Took another break watched a football game, ate some dinner. Came back to it and installed Cubase along with all the extras that come with that and went to bed

On Sunday morning I downloaded and installed all the relevant plugins I planned on migrating over to the new PC, along with Studio One, Acid Pro, and Protools, My sample library is on an attached NAS drive on my network. So copying those over was fast and easy

By that afternoon I was fully up and running with everything exactly like I wanted it in less than 48 hours. Keep in mind while I was doing all that I was also doing things on my other computers and this time includes actually building the PC

If I did not have a weekend to dedicate to this, I could have easily done it all over the course of a week or so spending a few hours in the evenings

I have a direct fiber connection to my house that is blazing fast, I can download just as a fast as the server on the other end allows

that helps quite a bit also but even with a slower connection it wouldn't take that much longer

It's really not that hard and just takes a tiny bit of planning

Even if all you do is follow the advice at this link which shouldn't take very long

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/ar ... recording/

You should be well ahead of the game

I think that's waaaay too optimistic.
After a couple of weeks, you realize you need a different version of driver.
Some settings don't work as expected.
Known app behaves differently. Troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot.
In worst case, there's a faulty component...
Or even worse, it's not 100% faulty but 50%.

I don't need that sh***

[vscorpio]

After update 1.0.3 I get windows 11 system crash (blue death screen) whenever I try to set the audio driver to ASIO (all other plugins including all Korg Collection's ones still works perfectly)...any suggestion what is causing that issue?

I'm sorry that you're having difficulties. We have tested with ASIO and Windows 11, but there may be differences depending on the specific ASIO hardware.

It might be helpful to delete the preferences, in:
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\KORG\multipoly native

I have a few questions, which might help us in troubleshooting:

I assume that this is in the standalone version; does the plug-in work OK in your DAW host?

What version of multi/poly were you using previously?

Hi,
I tryed deletig preference but did not work.
Plugin does work ok in host using ASIO, but not the srandalone version.
All previous version ( not sure but I installed at least three time since it has been released: I am sure latedt was 1.0.2 so probably the other was 1.0.1 or 1.0.0) just after 1.0.3 it does not work with ASIO any longer.

I have finally solved that! The issue happens due to another sw device which, for some strange reason, causes Korg Multi Poly crash when changing audio settings to ASIO. I realized that after installing a new software which had the same problem (it crashes whenever I try to select ASIO) and I get the same "blue death" screen but now I took a snapshoot of it (otherwise it was to fast to read it) and I found that the problem was a device named "AcusticaVirtualCable2ch.sys". After disabling it in device manager, everything works again!

[tumface]

My only remaining issue, or at least unanswered question, stopping me from buying multi/poly native is this: viewtopic.php?p=9052901#p9052901

I really think this might be some kind of bug. It affects any plucky patch I try to make. And I can even hear it, very slightly, on patches with slow attacks. The way I can get rid of it is by adding a tiny bit of delay knob to the amp envelope, which really doesn't seem like it should affect this bright clicking noise, but it does. If it was intentional, I don't think it would affect it, since it's just a delay.

Because I don't own the full version, and I'm only using the trial, I can't save a patch that demonstrates the problem to share. Also, due to size limitations, I can't upload a video to kvr forums.

So, instead, I will show you how you can reproduce it. We will make a simple patch that exaggerates the behavior, so that it's really obvious. This is not a patch you would realistically use in a song, but it should make the artifact more easy to notice.

First, load the Init Performance. Disable Filter A, leaving no filters enabled. Set Osc 1 to digital mode, and move the Position slider all the way up so that it becomes a sine wave. Switch to the Amp envelope modulator, and increase its release up to 0.1 so that there is no clicking when a note is released.

Then, set the attack so that it's 0.005. This should give the sine waves a small popping noise when playing notes. This is expected, because it's a short attack envelope. Also, the pops will be slightly inconsistent, because the oscillator doesn't do any phase resetting, so the position of the sine wave at the note on even will be slightly different each time.

So far, this is all normal.

Here is a screenshot of what it looks like:

FL64_h4BY2cRckl.jpg

But, if you keep playing notes, you will notice there is sometimes an *extra* clicking noise. It is much brighter than the expected pop from the fast envelope attack. And, if you increase the Delay knob on the amp envelope even just a tiny bit, this extra click goes away.

Here is an audio recording of me doing this as a zipped .mp3:

multi poly sine click.zip

Here is a gif of me turning the delay knob while recording the clip above. Obviously, this won't be in sync for you if you listen to the audio, but it gives you an idea of what I'm doing:

h2qnNOdIuf.gif

Am I crazy? Does this happen for anyone else? I haven't heard anyone else talk about this, but I reproduced it on two different computers.

edit from the future: it was indeed a bug, and it has been fixed in multi/poly native 1.0.4!

[Rastkovic]

Am I crazy? Does this happen for anyone else? I haven't heard anyone else talk about this, but I reproduced it on two different computers.

This sounds like a normal clicking of a free-running sine wave to me. I don't know what happens, if you increase the delay time. Yes, I can also hear it. Maybe it smooths additionally a bit the attack of the waveform.

If you look at the recorded waveform, there is a difference, but not a big one.

[tumface]

Am I crazy? Does this happen for anyone else? I haven't heard anyone else talk about this, but I reproduced it on two different computers.

This sounds like a normal clicking of a free-running sine wave to me. I don't know what happens, if you increase the delay time. Yes, I can also hear it. Maybe it smooths additionally a bit the attack of the waveform.

If you look at the recorded waveform, there is a difference, but not a big one.

It doesn’t sound normal to me. No other synth I have behaves like this, and it can’t be explained by the attack time. The attack time is too long for the click to have that amount of high frequency content. And it shouldn’t change when adding delay to the envelope. It also is inconsistent and sometimes won’t trigger for several notes in a row, while you can hear the expected more subtle pop from a relatively fast attack time to some degree on every note, depending on oscillator phase. What’s more, the shape of the waveform being cut off abnormally looks completely digital and hard edged in a waveform view, unlike everything else that multi/poly native produces.

[todkon]

Finally discovered an elegant solution to make Init default for Ableton Live, in case anyone else wants Init or another preset default upon every time the plugin loads. Simply select Init Performance, then wrap the plugin in a group (CMD+G on Mac or Ctrl+G on Win), save it, and now when you load that group all settings and your selected performance will be retained. I also made it save my User group within the plugin and my personal authorship on new presets/performances are all retained. Anyway, hope that helps anyone else using Multi/Poly Native in Live!

[suthnear]

It doesn’t sound normal to me. No other synth I have behaves like this, and it can’t be explained by the attack time. The attack time is too long for the click to have that amount of high frequency content. And it shouldn’t change when adding delay to the envelope. It also is inconsistent and sometimes won’t trigger for several notes in a row, while you can hear the expected more subtle pop from a relatively fast attack time to some degree on every note, depending on oscillator phase. What’s more, the shape of the waveform being cut off abnormally looks completely digital and hard edged in a waveform view, unlike everything else that multi/poly native produces.

Does it go away if you switch to mono?

[Gam456]

Am I crazy? Does this happen for anyone else? I haven't heard anyone else talk about this, but I reproduced it on two different computers.

This sounds like a normal clicking of a free-running sine wave to me. I don't know what happens, if you increase the delay time. Yes, I can also hear it. Maybe it smooths additionally a bit the attack of the waveform.

If you look at the recorded waveform, there is a difference, but not a big one.

Same for me, it's a super fast attack like many analog hardware

[tumface]

Does it go away if you switch to mono?

It does not. However, your suggestion led to find some other strange behavior. After toggling from Poly to Mono, or from Mono to Poly, the next note played will always not have the click. Any further notes might have it, but that first one after toggling is always as I would expect.

This sounds like a normal clicking of a free-running sine wave to me. I don't know what happens, if you increase the delay time. Yes, I can also hear it. Maybe it smooths additionally a bit the attack of the waveform.

If you look at the recorded waveform, there is a difference, but not a big one.

Same for me, it's a super fast attack like many analog hardware

I'm sorry. I think I must have done a bad job of explaining this. I tried to make an example that showed that the behavior was not consistent with analog synthesis. The example was meant to show both an expected popping noise from a fast attack envelope, and also show a digital click that sometimes appears on top of the expected popping noise of a fast attack envelope. I'm sorry, I must have failed at that. Let me try again.

I watched some videos of the hardware unit being used, and I don't believe the hardware unit has this clicking behavior. Also, as I mentioned before, multi/poly native stops doing this clicking if a tiny amount of delay is added to the amp envelope. If this extra click was meant to be a mimicry of analog hardware, adding a small amount of delay to the amp envelope shouldn't cause it to go away. I have all of the filters and FX disabled, so it's not caused by something like the filter envelope timing changing relative to the amp envelope.

I mentioned earlier in this post that suthnear's suggestion led me to find that toggling between Mono and Poly mode causes the next note played (and only one) to not ever have the digital click. Here is what that looks like in a spectrum analyzer:

Acoustica_3ybRvFiRlu.png

I hope this makes it more clear that this is not simply caused by the sine wave position and a fast attack envelope. (By the way, toggling between Mono and Poly mode does not reset the phase position of the sine wave.)

Here is a close-up of the view of one of the notes from the left side that has the digital click:

Acoustica_9gvOAk1Rx1.png

Here is one of the notes that does not have the digital click:

Acoustica_ymM7tGujyk.png

I played notes until I got two that both had almost the same sine wave phase position at the attack, but where one had the digital click and one didn't. I hope this further illustrates that this seems to be unintended behavior.


Here is another example. This time, I set the attack to 0.005. This should cause a subtle pop but nothing with too much high frequency content. However, when I play notes, on about 50% of the notes, I hear and see something like this:

Acoustica_yxqhh7eMkW.png

If I increase the delay from 0.0 to 0.020, which should not affect the attack transient, merely shift it in time, the regular fast attack pop is still there as expected, but now the extra click is gone, and the waveform looks like this:

Acoustica_EHco6Vk1ue.png

If this was intended behavior, I believe the delay knob should not affect the attack transient like that. Also, to me, the one with the hard edge really looks like a glitch, not intended behavior. It doesn't have the same band-limited characteristics I would expect from an analog synthesizer's oscillator and amp.

Sorry for the long post. I hope I did a better job of explaining it, this time.

And I'm sorry for repeatedly bringing up this topic. I'm a professional sound designer and programmer at a games company, and this behavior in multi/poly native makes it not useful for what I was looking forward to using it for. If it's intended, then it means I would need to use the amp envelope delay knob on every patch I make, and then compensate for the delay in the rest of the patch and in the sequencer, and at that point I think I would rather not use the plugin at all.

edit from the future: it was indeed a bug, and it has been fixed in multi/poly native 1.0.4!