yes, in the VST2 protocol as left deficient by Steinberg.
But rather than properly resolve those deficiencies, they instead put out a large VAT of kool-aid labelled VST3.
Bye bye VST2
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35439 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
But rather than properly resolve those deficiencies, they instead put out a large VAT of kool-aid labelled VST3.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 7669 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
There was no way to fix it with VST2. It required a complete rewrite. VST2 itself wasn’t even the first version of VST.
And look at the other plugin formats that were contemporaries of VST2: TDM, RTAS, DX, AUv1/v2. All of those are gone too. Audio Units are also on version 3, and like VST3, AUv3 is not backwards compatible, either. Technology improves and moves forward.
And what is the big “controversy” over VST3? That you can’t develop for competing platforms? No. That you have to pay developer fees for a VST3 developer license? No.
The big “controversy” is you may one day have to stop developing obsolete VST2 plugins.
That, and that some developers are too old to learn new tricks. But you think that doesn’t apply to AAX, too?
How many developers are still producing TDM, RTAS, or AUv1/v2 plugins? Does Avid or Apple even allow that? (The answer is: no)
What forum do those developers and their fanboys cry on?
And look at the other plugin formats that were contemporaries of VST2: TDM, RTAS, DX, AUv1/v2. All of those are gone too. Audio Units are also on version 3, and like VST3, AUv3 is not backwards compatible, either. Technology improves and moves forward.
And what is the big “controversy” over VST3? That you can’t develop for competing platforms? No. That you have to pay developer fees for a VST3 developer license? No.
The big “controversy” is you may one day have to stop developing obsolete VST2 plugins.
That, and that some developers are too old to learn new tricks. But you think that doesn’t apply to AAX, too?
How many developers are still producing TDM, RTAS, or AUv1/v2 plugins? Does Avid or Apple even allow that? (The answer is: no)
What forum do those developers and their fanboys cry on?
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35439 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
jamcat wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 6:38 pm There was no way to fix it with VST2. It required a complete rewrite.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 7669 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
Tell us you have no intelligent reply without telling us you have no intelligent reply. Par for the course from you whyterabbyt.
Not that you'll have an intelligent answer for this either, but why didn't Apple just fix AUv2 instead of creating AUv3, or Avid just fix TDM/RTAS instead of creating AAX?
Not that you'll have an intelligent answer for this either, but why didn't Apple just fix AUv2 instead of creating AUv3, or Avid just fix TDM/RTAS instead of creating AAX?
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRAF
- 7669 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
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Super Piano Hater 64 Super Piano Hater 64 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=491312 - KVRist
- 499 posts since 24 Jan, 2021
Framing this in terms of VST2's strengths or weaknesses is a disingenuous deflection. The real problem is that Steinberg revoked perpetual licenses in order to weaken its competitors, and without any concern for the damage this move would do to the rest of the music industry.
The lesson here is not that VST2 or VST3 is good or bad. The lesson is that Steinberg cannot be trusted to uphold its end of literally any bargain. Anyone who deals with them from now on has to walk on eggshells and have some very reliable backup plans.
The lesson here is not that VST2 or VST3 is good or bad. The lesson is that Steinberg cannot be trusted to uphold its end of literally any bargain. Anyone who deals with them from now on has to walk on eggshells and have some very reliable backup plans.
I hate signatures too.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35439 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRian
- 1277 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Barcelona
FST & RST APIs fixes some Bugs & enhanced the VST2 protocol. MIDI has also its flaws but it's a Standard.(Edit)jamcat wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 6:38 pm There was no way to fix it with VST2. It required a complete rewrite. VST2 itself wasn’t even the first version of VST.
VST3 is the one to be forgotten by the community. VST2 could live without Steinberg, but they're trying to kill It. No real problems for users, just a problem for the one holding the rights of the toolkit, but hey, VST2 has demonstrated it's not a Steinberg protocol but a Standard.
Sorry for VST3. Why no VST4 appeared in 16 years? Ask Steinberg.
Last edited by wikter on Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 7669 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
How does this compare to AAX or AU? Is Steinberg somehow being more draconian?Super Piano Hater 64 wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:05 pm Framing this in terms of VST2's strengths or weaknesses is a disingenuous deflection. The real problem is that Steinberg revoked perpetual licenses in order to weaken its competitors, and without any concern for the damage this move would do to the rest of the music industry.
The lesson here is not that VST2 or VST3 is good or bad. The lesson is that Steinberg cannot be trusted to uphold its end of literally any bargain. Anyone who deals with them from now on has to walk on eggshells and have some very reliable backup plans.
I think Steinberg only moved in this direction because their licensing was overly permissive and allowed developers to resist moving to VST3. Avid and Apple never had this problem, because their licensing already put them firmly in control of developers.
I think where Steinberg really screwed up was by introducing 64-bit in VST2.4, rather than reserving it for VST3. I remember when it came about, and lots of developers were resisting 64-bit support, and there was talk about how VST2.4 was just a stopgap because VST3 was just around the corner.
If Steinberg would have kept 64-bit out of VST2 completely, they wouldn't have had to strongarm VST3 adoption.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRAF
- 7669 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
wikter wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:18 pm VST3 is the one to be forgotten by the community. VST2 could live without Steinberg, but they're trying to kill It. No real problems for users, just a problem for the one holding the rights of the toolkit, but hey, VST2 has demonstrated it's not a Steinberg protocol but a Standard.
Sorry for VST3... Why no VST4 in 16 years??? Blame Steinberg.
And there were some isolated islands in the South Pacific where Japanese holdouts were still fighting WWII 29 years later.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35439 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
so only 13 more years before you wake up to reality then.jamcat wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:42 pmAnd there were some isolated islands in the South Pacific where Japanese holdouts were still fighting WWII 29 years later.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRian
- 1277 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Barcelona
They set a open, public Standard defending islands? MIDI, electricity, meters, dollars, etc...jamcat wrote: Fri Mar 21, 2025 9:42 pm And there were some isolated islands in the South Pacific where Japanese holdouts were still fighting WWII 29 years later.
Standards has this unfancy thing that make them survive their creators...