KVR Audio

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:42 am

As some of you know, I consider myself primarily a guitarist, though I'm not the best guitarist ever born. I've tried a bunch of amp sim software, finally settling on Green Machine II for most of my needs.

However, on a recent project, I've been having a hell of a time getting the right sound (if anyone wants to give it a go using GMA2 or any available freeware, let me know-- it's the guitar sound from Chris Deburgh's (sp?) Lady In Red) using DI and plug-ins. It keep sounding flat and lifeless, or OVERLY sprightly, depending on the sim I'm using.

So, I finally decided to bust out an amp and try mic'ing it. To be honest, I had a workable sound in.. oh.. 30 seconds, though I'm still not "thrilled" with it. At least it's an improvement over what I was getting using plug-ins. But now I'm 'ready' to move onto another guitar part, that uses distorted tone. So, I'll take a digital photo of the settings, and hopefully if I need to reproduce the clean sound again, I'll be able to pull it off.

But what a pain in the ass! There are the following sets of settings to take into account:

1. The software adjustment/hardware settings on my puter
2. The settings on my pre-amp
3. The settings on the amp
4. The settings on the guitar
5. Proximity and placement of microphone in relation to the amp.
6. Placement of the amp within the room itself (less important to me because I'm not SUPER-picky).

I mean, what a frickin' hassle!! This is why I always wonder why some guitarists are such purists that they feel they "must" be mic'ing an amp, as a recording guitarist. If you have the luxury of a studio in which the equipment will go undisturbed and you can pull out a different amp for a different tone, g'head. Or if you can record for a day without worrying about the ins and outs of daily life like we mortals.

But for a 'bedroom' musician with limited gear, X number of cables, and not enough time to finish an entire song's worth of guitar parts in a day?

Yuk.

Greg

PS, I'm serious... if anyone can come up with a Lady In Red tone, I'll be well chuffed. I think the guitarist uses a guitar modded with the pickups out of phase, but my guitars don't have that option, which is adding to the problem.

Mephit Blue · Post by **Mephit Blue** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:55 am

*Shakes his head*

I can't help you with the tone, but I understand exactly how you feel about mic'ing an amp to record it.

For ease of use, software sims can't be beat. Unfortunately I haven't found one that I can make sound as good as some of my patches on the PodXT, so for serious recording I break that out. Still, using the Pod is still easier than mic'ing an amp.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:06 am

Would that I could afford a Pod. <grumble>

Thinking of getting a used J-Station from eBay, since it uses digital out, enabling me to add it to my Audiophile without sacrificing the 2 analog ins.

Greg

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:27 am

I dont think I could live without my J station... It may not be 100% accurate, but I dont care- I can get more sound variety out of it alone than *any* real amp I would be able to afford- plus, ITs much much much quieter...

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:44 am

The more I think about it, the more I really want a J-Station. They routinely sell on eBay for $100 CDN plus shipping. Surely that's worth the price of admission.

Greg

mindless · Post by **mindless** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:56 am

I really like my Tech21 Trademark10. It's all analog, has 3 cab emulation settings and an XLR out. I've used that lil' mofo for everything. Sadly, the speaker is nearly blown from jamming with a drummer too much with it

but I've had it a few years now and it's only 10watt. It still works well for direct recording...just need to replace the spaeaker. I also like the Digitech RP100...my friend has one and I've been happy with the recordings I've done with it. As far as plugs...I got a tone I was quite satisfied with using just 'the Chimp' and 'Delta Force' together. I used those on the track 'DirectXTJam' on my site if you want to hear what they sound like.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:33 am

Cool. Exponent is great.

Mind you, I'm biased. Not sure that I need Delta Force for the tone I'm after, though, which is an even cleaner tone than the one on that track. Decent little jam, by the way.

My Marshall has direct out, as well, but I'm of the opinion that if I'm using it as a DI box, I might as well be running through my Tube MP preamp. I should give it a try, though-- I'm surprised I haven't yet, actually, and it may keep some of the "life" in the signal that I find I've been lacking.

Cheers for the response,
Greg

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:29 am

Miking a cabinet is a pain indeed. I get great results with a Koch Loadbox, connected inbetween the amp and the cabinet (even possible without a cabinet so not to wake up the neighbours.) It has outputs at mic level (balanced), line level, headphone, and a couple of attenuated speaker levels.

It preserves the character of the amp, which in most cases you do not get from its own line out. Then you probably tap off the preamp and skip the final amp stage which is contributing much to the sound.

If you are on a budget, the loadbox is not an option unless you can get it cheap from e-bay.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:18 am

Lunch Money quoth Would that I could afford a Pod

If you've got an older spare PC, you could try picking up a GuitarPort on ebay. Runs as an ASIO interface, and unlike the bare Pod, it'll also take all the extra cab, amp and effects models you can buy for the Pod XT.

rollasoc · Post by **rollasoc** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:24 pm

I've tried miking an amp, but would prefer not to annoy the neighbours too often, so stick to my Line 6 Flextone 2 amp and (more often than not) a Behringer V-amp.

Also, I try to come up with my own guitar sounds rather than imitate what others have done. If mine sound like others it is purely coincidental.

Rollasoc
http://www.hairthieves.com

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:56 pm

Not me.

I do a bit of both. Sure, I like to come up with my own tones, but if I know that a "Stevie Ray Vaughan front pickup sound" WILL be the right tone for a song, I have no shame in trying to emulate that song.

In this particular case, I'm acting as a "studio musician", which means I do what I'm told to do.

If a certain tone is what's needed, that's what I should try to get. <Grin>

WR-- GuitarPort... what a great idea! I keep forgetting about GuitarPort.

Greg

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:59 pm

even though I have a jstation, I have been thinking of getting a guitar port as well. Specially since I can get the pod XT upgrade. Another option is teh Berhinger V-AMP. It really is a good deal at 165 bucks... and its rack mountable...

harmony gardens · Post by **harmony gardens** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:05 pm

I'm basically a keyboard player, but I had a lot of problems recording guitars. I bought a J Station, and I'm VERY happy with the results. Everyone who has played through it is impressed, and I'm getting some good tracks.

Funkybot · Post by **Funkybot** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:43 pm

I'm a guitar tone snob too, and like you, I'll also use both a real amp and modellers depending on what's needed for the song and what's available to me at the time (amp in my room vs. rehearsal studio, time, etc). My advice to you is not to get a J-Station (I own one and use it primarilly for the bass cabinets when I use it at all which is almost never) amd go for a Guitarport instead. There's a world of difference between the two in terms of quality and the Guitarport wins hands down. On the other hand, if you want still want a J-Station feel free to PM me with an offer.

BTW if you have a strat or a strat copy, the bridge/middle or neck/middle positions will be an 'out of phase' pickup position. I'm pretty sure this applies to a Les Paul as well.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:53 pm

I have a tele-style and a Godin LG with P-90's.

<laff>

A strat needs to be modified in order to get that funky 'out of phase' sound. In the 2nd and 4th positions, the pickups just act together as a humbucker, unfortunately.

Greg

Why I don't like recording amps