KVR Audio

Funkybot · Post by **Funkybot** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:01 pm

Duh, you're right about the phase thing, now I'm wondering if my strat is out of phase. Back when I was more adventurous I had a friend do a butload of mods to a stock tex-mex strat (for intsance I can have any/all pickups on at a given time in any possible combo) and I think we may have knocked two of the pick-ups in phase with each other, but honestly can't remember at this point. I'm about to give up entirely on that guitar though and move on to a 72 Tele Deluxe reissue I've been eyeing (big 70s strat headstock on a humbucker equipped tele deluxe, need I say more

).

drfx · Post by **drfx** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:15 pm

Ok, I'll be the dissenting voice here:
What is so difficult/expensive about miking an amp? Seriously, gear-wise, you'll need:
-a nice sounding amp (expensive, but hey!you're a guitarrist, dammit!)
-a decent mic and a mic stand (cheap dynemics are known to work better, like shure sm57)
- a mixer or a pre-amp (pretty cheap)
-an acoustically absorvent space(you probably have a bedroom studio, so there it is!)
Just point the mic at a good angle (trial and error) and you're set!
Disadvantages: You probably have only one amp, most simulators have dozens!
Advantages: TONE!!!
Cheers, and good luck!

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:20 pm

Tone Schmone

Rock Hardbuns · Post by **Rock Hardbuns** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:17 pm

I got a POD 2.0 and I like it very much.

I recorded a few snippets:
POD 2 examples ~900Kb

It would be cool if some one with a Jstation and/or a Vamp, or any other amp sim for that matter could do the same so we could compare.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:36 pm

drfx wrote:Ok, I'll be the dissenting voice here:
What is so difficult/expensive about miking an amp? Seriously, gear-wise, you'll need:

If you'll re-read my post, you'll see that I don't claim it's difficult, merely that it's a pain in the ass. I also said that the real amp got me a decent enough tone in about 30 seconds, which supports your view that micing a real amp gets a better sound more quickly.

It's just a pain in the ass, not in terms of difficulty, but in terms of maintaining consistency between takes, or if you have to revisit the song to fly some fixes in, etc.

A real PITA.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:38 pm

Also, there are many times when 'king tone' is irrelevant. I'm trying to get Chris DeBurgh "Lady In Red" sound, for the love of all things good and holy. <laff> It's that rhythmic palm-muted picking stuff that gets shuffled to the background.

Trust me, nobody will notice if I've gotten that sound from a hacked and modified GameBoy or if it came from a Fender Twin.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:10 pm

Lunch Money wrote:A strat needs to be modified in order to get that funky 'out of phase' sound. In the 2nd and 4th positions, the pickups just act together as a humbucker, unfortunately.

That's not true.
A standard humbucker is wired in series while any unmodified strat switch will route them in parallel.
Both wiring models are still in phase though.
Those strats featuring "no-noise" inbetween positions (almost all of them do these days) still use the stock parallel routing with the middle pickup being a reverse wound model which will then produce a quasi-humbucker effect, cancelling out the noise.

FWIW, if you are after really great guitar tone, a socalled deadbox might be a way to go.
I once built a "temporary" one, using an old cupboard. Put a small 10" box into it (which I borrowed for that purpose), then some SM57 and stuffed the thing with all sorts of styropor I had hanging around.
I used this with my Boogie Mark IV and the results were stunning, really!

I also tried out a professionally built deadbox one day in a studio, and it was amazing. It had a 2x12" speaker enclosure including clamps for two mics and the actual deadbox was build around it. Only a very little door was left to eventually exchange and adjust the mics.
Tried with an old JCM 800 - you know, these beasts are VERY loud... cranked it up until it sounded right. One could almost whisper, it just was SO amazingly quiet!
But mind you, this thing wasn't even transportable, must've been like 100-200 kg at least - the dude used a bottom plate of concrete, then some insulation material, then some further wood and some more insulation material to really make it dead inside.
The sides and top featured two thick parts of plywood, again with insulation material between them.

Honestly, this was sounding better than anything I've heard before (apart from things using true record cabins that is).

Personally, I really love emulations and can't get enough of them - but I WILL build myself a similar deadbox once I have the space for it.

drfx · Post by **drfx** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:06 pm

Hmm, got a point there Lunch Money. Sometimes guitarrists are obsessed with stuff 99% of people don't care about! But there is a real difference in sound from a mic and a model. The deadbox concept looks interesting, I don't know anyone in my area who actually has built one, though!

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:01 pm

there is one problem with the deadbox- since the cabinet is completely enclosed, you really cant get the sound of a good open back cabinet, and the speaker can sound overdamped. This is at least the case with my brothers Randall isocab. I will say that it is great for getting really crunch though. Run the iso cab with an sm-57 pointed at the middle of the cone and crank to your hearts delite...

Funkybot · Post by **Funkybot** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:10 pm

I stopped using a single SM57 on amps years ago. Now I tend to use multiple mics on a guitar amp, but that's just the sound I like I guess. My current Amp recording setup involves a BLUE Ball in front and on axis, an SM57 in front off axis, one in the back of the cab, and a condenser out in the room a few feet in front of and above the amp. Sometimes I'll throw the condenser in closer and forgoe the SM57 in the front entirely depending on the sound I need.

BTW if you're only going to use one mic on an amp try out the BLUE Ball in place of the 57. Has a much better frequency response (sounds quite a bit like a condenser in that it has a fuller bottom and more open top end than a 57), and handles SPLs just as well as the 57. The only thing is that it's a dynamic mic that needs phantom power, but that shouldn't be an issue for anyone these days. Oh and did I mention it's cheap these days at about $99 US?

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:16 pm

Ive been looking at the blue ball- I may hafta check it out...

Funkybot · Post by **Funkybot** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:35 pm

Trust me S_A_P, it won't disappoint you. Such a versatile little mic that is. I intend on picking up at least two more for when I go back to recording drum kits as it does wonders for toms and kicks, though it's too big and clunky for me to want to place anywhere near a snare drum (stupid drummers).

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:58 pm

drfx, I agree for sure that there's a difference; however, when I say that "nobody will notice", I'm not even referring to authenticity. I'm referring to the fact that it's getting shuffled to the back of the mix and probably drenched in reverb.

Greg

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:05 pm

Bwaaagh, Greg, in that case you'd even get away with plugging in the guitar directly into the soundcard

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:10 pm

dont think I havent recorded that way

I actually DI my bass quite often, as sometimes it is alot fuller sounding without having an amp sound.

Why I don't like recording amps