Software vs Hardware

[vurt]

joined a bird watching forum, and it's no different.
was ripped apart as a noob, for not being sure if my sparrows were house or tree?

aggression everywhere.
don't get me started on the knitting forum.

Well what were they? House or Tree?

Ignore those people. There are plenty of people who are experts and also enjoy teaching and sharing information and knowledge.

still looking at cameras, to post a pic to find out.
i also have a wagtail im not sure if iys yellow or grey, as thr grey ones are also yellow!
my finches are definitely gold and my tit's blue!

[vurt]

Music should be collaborative, people coming together,

other people? besides me? in a room, together?

IKR?

that's how wars start.

[IvyBirds]

And that usually means hardware

All the times I've played music with friends, it is always with physical instruments (guitars, bass, synths, vocals, percussion) I love making compositions by myself in my studio, and both software and/or hardware works fine. But when it comes to live playing with other musicians, it is always hardware.

Yes because you can't play live with software with other musicians or something

Sure, there's a tiny percentage... and that's it.

If I think of all the places I've listened to live music; clubs, bars, cafes, outdoor markets, street buskers, festivals, etc., it has been rare that I've seen live musicians playing a midi controller connected to a laptop.

And even if there is a band where the keyboard player is using a laptop with a midi controller, the rest of the band is playing guitar, bass, drums, and so on.

When it comes to groups of musicians playing live music, hardware reigns supreme.

wow so you have extremely limited exposure and experience to live music and based on that you can say with certainty that in 2025 only a tiny percentage, I mean you see people play in outdoor markets and cafes so obviously you know what happens in arena and stadium tours

I gig out 3-5 times a week it's how I earn my living. If you had seen me gig at all in the 40 or so times I have played you would have seen me playing an 88 key Montage M

Only I use that as a controller because it's built like a tank, can hold up to stress of gigging, and has an amazing Keybed, that is what you saw, but if you looked closely you would see I am ACTUALLY using Gig Performer on a laptop and what you heard is the sound of plugins, even a few sounds coming from the Montage plugin being played via MIDI from a Montage being used as a controller

The reason why I.do this is the exact same reason a TON of keyboardists do this on all kinds of shows and tours besides the fact they sound great and the audience doesn't care, is the reality that with Gig Performer or Mainstage you get tremendous amount of control including automation that you can't get from hardware

So your first song you want to use 3 synth sounds set up as splits across your keyboard, on one of those you want to use Valhalla Vintage Verb, on another which is an EP you want to run it through an amp sim and finally the last one is a B3 get you want to run through a Leslie sim

All of that is pre-programmed ready to go including the outputs of everything being sent digitally directly to the FOH and Monitor Consoles including the separate mixes for you inears

But that is just the first song, in a split second you are now playing song #2 with 2 instruments this time and another split point different effects chains and different monitor and in war mixes, but everything was preset and ready to go so you can change it with no effort in a flash

Now we move on to the third song and you just have one timbre from a single get a grand piano but you have a different effects chain

You do this 10-15 times for each song in your set. You can't really do that with a pure hardware rig with that amount of speed and accuracy

Now let's say I just want to jam at a friend's house awesome. I have no idea where the muses will lead us. If I had all hardware I could hire a semi truck and bring a Steinway Model D grand piano, a chopped B3 with a full Leslie, an EP or two, a DX7, a Jupiter 8, an Oberheim OBXa, Minimoog, an entire orchestra, etc or I could bring my laptop with all of those sounds inside of it and a controller

The reality is modern hardware and software sounds awesome but in a live setting where you are playing with other musicians a plugin based workflow with Gig Performer or Mainstage offers SIGNIFICANT advantages over a pure hardware setup. It doesn't matter if you using it in your buddy's garage or on a festival stage in front of 100,000 with a TV audience into the millions

[enCiphered]

And that usually means hardware

All the times I've played music with friends, it is always with physical instruments (guitars, bass, synths, vocals, percussion) I love making compositions by myself in my studio, and both software and/or hardware works fine. But when it comes to live playing with other musicians, it is always hardware.

Yes because you can't play live with software with other musicians or something

Sure, there's a tiny percentage... and that's it.

If I think of all the places I've listened to live music; clubs, bars, cafes, outdoor markets, street buskers, festivals, etc., it has been rare that I've seen live musicians playing a midi controller connected to a laptop.

And even if there is a band where the keyboard player is using a laptop with a midi controller, the rest of the band is playing guitar, bass, drums, and so on.

When it comes to groups of musicians playing live music, hardware reigns supreme.

wow so you have extremely limited exposure and experience to live music and based on that you can say with certainty that in 2025 only a tiny percentage, I mean you see people play in outdoor markets and cafes so obviously you know what happens in arena and stadium tours

I gig out 3-5 times a week it's how I earn my living. If you had seen me gig at all in the 40 or so times I have played you would have seen me playing an 88 key Montage M

Only I use that as a controller because it's built like a tank, can hold up to stress of gigging, and has an amazing Keybed, that is what you saw, but if you looked closely you would see I am ACTUALLY using Gig Performer on a laptop and what you heard is the sound of plugins, even a few sounds coming from the Montage plugin being played via MIDI from a Montage being used as a controller

The reason why I.do this is the exact same reason a TON of keyboardists do this on all kinds of shows and tours besides the fact they sound great and the audience doesn't care, is the reality that with Gig Performer or Mainstage you get tremendous amount of control including automation that you can't get from hardware

So your first song you want to use 3 synth sounds set up as splits across your keyboard, on one of those you want to use Valhalla Vintage Verb, on another which is an EP you want to run it through an amp sim and finally the last one is a B3 get you want to run through a Leslie sim

All of that is pre-programmed ready to go including the outputs of everything being sent digitally directly to the FOH and Monitor Consoles including the separate mixes for you inears

But that is just the first song, in a split second you are now playing song #2 with 2 instruments this time and another split point different effects chains and different monitor and in war mixes, but everything was preset and ready to go so you can change it with no effort in a flash

Now we move on to the third song and you just have one timbre from a single get a grand piano but you have a different effects chain

You do this 10-15 times for each song in your set. You can't really do that with a pure hardware rig with that amount of speed and accuracy

Now let's say I just want to jam at a friend's house awesome. I have no idea where the muses will lead us. If I had all hardware I could hire a semi truck and bring a Steinway Model D grand piano, a chopped B3 with a full Leslie, an EP or two, a DX7, a Jupiter 8, an Oberheim OBXa, Minimoog, an entire orchestra, etc or I could bring my laptop with all of those sounds inside of it and a controller

The reality is modern hardware and software sounds awesome but in a live setting where you are playing with other musicians a plugin based workflow with Gig Performer or Mainstage offers SIGNIFICANT advantages over a pure hardware setup. It doesn't matter if you using it in your buddy's garage or on a festival stage in front of 100,000 with a TV audience into the millions

If you spent half the energy on your prose that you do on opinions, this would actually make sense and what you write a lot more easier to read.
Almost every sentence rolls into the next without punctuation. Break into shorter sentences or use semicolons.
The inconsistent formatting, random periods or missing spaces after commas and the lack of structure makes it pretty hard to read. I mean, what a giant block of text! And then the capitalization for emphasis (“ACTUALLY,” “SIGNIFICANT”). This feels like shouting. Use italics or bold sparingly to highlight key points.
Finally, the Repetition. You explain the same idea (laptop vs hardware) over and over. State it once concisely, then move on.

Let me help you:

I gig 3–5 nights a week, and I earn my living deploying software‑based rigs. I use an 88‑key Montage M purely as a controller. Its tank‑like build and natural keybed are perfect for the road. But all sounds come from Gig Performer on my laptop, routing plugins (even Montage’s own) via MIDI.

This setup gives me granular automation: different splits, effects chains, and separate FOH/monitor mixes for each song. Switching from a three‑part synth split with Valhalla Vintage Verb, amp sims and a Leslie emulation to a solo grand‑piano patch literally takes a keystroke. No pure‑hardware rig can match that speed or flexibility.

[IvyBirds]

If you spent half the energy on your prose that you do on opinions, this would actually make sense and what you write a lot more easier to read.
Almost every sentence rolls into the next without punctuation. Break into shorter sentences or use semicolons.
The inconsistent formatting, random periods or missing spaces after commas and the lack of structure makes it pretty hard to read. I mean, what a giant block of text! And then the capitalization for emphasis (“ACTUALLY,” “SIGNIFICANT”). This feels like shouting. Use italics or bold sparingly to highlight key points.
Finally, the Repetition. You explain the same idea (laptop vs hardware) over and over. State it once concisely, then move on.

Let me help you:

I gig 3–5 nights a week, and I earn my living deploying software‑based rigs. I use an 88‑key Montage M purely as a controller. Its tank‑like build and natural keybed are perfect for the road. But all sounds come from Gig Performer on my laptop, routing plugins (even Montage’s own) via MIDI.

This setup gives me granular automation: different splits, effects chains, and separate FOH/monitor mixes for each song. Switching from a three‑part synth split with Valhalla Vintage Verb, amp sims and a Leslie emulation to a solo grand‑piano patch literally takes a keystroke. No pure‑hardware rig can match that speed or flexibility.

Awesome thanks for calling the grammar police but obviously you understood EXACTLY what I was writing

I am not writing a term paper for a college course, I am writing a forum post where I type out my thoughts in real time

[SoftSynthLover99]

And that usually means hardware

All the times I've played music with friends, it is always with physical instruments (guitars, bass, synths, vocals, percussion) I love making compositions by myself in my studio, and both software and/or hardware works fine. But when it comes to live playing with other musicians, it is always hardware.

Yes because you can't play live with software with other musicians or something

Sure, there's a tiny percentage... and that's it.

If I think of all the places I've listened to live music; clubs, bars, cafes, outdoor markets, street buskers, festivals, etc., it has been rare that I've seen live musicians playing a midi controller connected to a laptop.

And even if there is a band where the keyboard player is using a laptop with a midi controller, the rest of the band is playing guitar, bass, drums, and so on.

When it comes to groups of musicians playing live music, hardware reigns supreme.

The reason why I.do this is the exact same reason a TON of keyboardists do this on all kinds of shows and tours besides the fact they sound great and the audience doesn't care, is the reality that with Gig Performer or Mainstage you get tremendous amount of control including automation that you can't get from hardware

That's not true at all. Everything you described is doable with hardware including automation, effects chains per sound splits zones etc. Especially with the Montage M. Maybe you should do a deep dive into it if you still have it because as someone who has used MainStage + MacBook Pro live before, the Montage M is far superior for live performance.


And keyboardist on tour who use MainStage + Laptop + Midi Controllers are the EXCEPTION and not the RULE. So while I agree some do use MainStage, the majority will have setups similar to that of which you see above. Nobody wants CPU dropouts, spikes and crackling noises during live performance (which is why I no longer use MainStage live when I do play keys). And my MacBook Pro was maxed out just FYI!

[bmanic]

When it comes to groups of musicians playing live music, hardware reigns supreme.

When it comes to electronic music acts, this has not been my experience for several years now. I'd say hardware synths as sound sources are actually the minority.

I've been mixing the same autumn festival every year in central Helsinki for almost 20 years now and in the past 5 years or so computers (running Aleton live or MainStage) have completely taken over in music acts that are mainly electronic. Absolute majority of the synth sounds are coming from plugins.. yes from all the band members. Heck, some drummers bring E-kits on stage and run the sounds from a laptop.. even if the actual sound output is mostly acoustic drums. Guess it's more portable and easier to have a consistent sound output. I usually do prefer acoustic kits in these cases but of course as the venue's FOH dude I have no say in this.

[bmanic]

And keyboardist on tour who use MainStage + Laptop + Midi Controllers are the EXCEPTION and not the RULE. So while I agree some do use MainStage, the majority will have setups similar to that of which you see above.

As I said in the post above, this does not ring true to me (and do quite a bit of FOH stuff during the summer in various venues).

It probably depends on how big the act is but at least the smaller acts (you know, those relatively unknown bands that there are thousands of and who do the absolute bulk of all gigging in sheer numbers alone) seem to use mainly laptops as the main sound source.

I suspect the reason is very simple: It's just easier to set it all up to sound exactly as you want it and perform the exact sounds they used on the album, which are almost always plugin synths.

Nobody wants CPU dropouts, spikes and crackling noises during live performance (which is why I no longer use MainStage live when I do play keys). And my MacBook Pro was maxed out just FYI!

This used to be a huge issue in the Summer/Autumn when people still ran those awful Intel Mac Books.. but with the M1 generation of Apple chips, over heating (and thus throttling) has been a complete non-issue. Not once in the past 4 years has an artists laptop crashed or malfunctioned during a gig, as far as I can remember.

Oh and I even see bands that bring their own FOH mixing engineer to the gigs who run the whole mix through a laptop (usually Reaper or Pro Tools).. even when we have a pretty nice big digital desk available. No issues ever as far as I can tell. It's usually RME hardware that is expanded either through MADI or ADAT to get all the needed ins and outs. Rock solid. Super low latency.

My prediction is that specialty hardware setups for various small venues and smaller sized bands will be completely in the box sooner rather than later. Simply because it will be so easy to migrate the actual album sound to the live experience.

.. now I'm not sure I like that idea of simply copy/pasting the whole album sound for live. Personally I like it when people play live and it sounds very different from the album but I can understand why some people don't like that.

[pdxindy]

When it comes to groups of musicians playing live music, hardware reigns supreme.

When it comes to electronic music acts, this has not been my experience for several years now. I'd say hardware synths as sound sources are actually the minority.

I've been mixing the same autumn festival every year in central Helsinki for almost 20 years now and in the past 5 years or so computers (running Aleton live or MainStage) have completely taken over in music acts that are mainly electronic. Absolute majority of the synth sounds are coming from plugins.. yes from all the band members.

Interesting... seems my experience is a bit out of date. Then again, the only live electronic music acts I've attended have all been single individuals and they mostly use hardware like Eurorack, Elektron boxes, small synths like the MicroFreak, etc.

Anyway, I was not referring to electronic music, but more music in general. I know quite a few musicians and at least half of them never use a computer at all. They play an instrument (guitar, bass, cello, sax, etc.) and the only time they are around a computer is if they are in a studio being recorded.

I'd still say that across the spectrum of live music, the percentage of musicians using a computer and midi controller is in the single digits. I rarely see computers in live music I come across. If it were common, I would see them more often.

[bmanic]

I'd still say that across the spectrum of live music, the percentage of musicians using a computer and midi controller is in the single digits. I rarely see computers in live music I come across. If it were common, I would see them more often.

Ah no, yeah that's 100% true. If you take all genres then of course hardware is king. Even the small electronic acts pretty much always have some hardware on stage producing sounds (usually a small analogue synth or some groovebox like some elektron units) but the majority of the sounds pretty much always come from the computer, either as triggered clips or just plugins that are being played in real time.

But yeah, in terms of all music, it's pretty hard to play any guitar based music with a band using only laptops.

[IvyBirds]

And that usually means hardware

All the times I've played music with friends, it is always with physical instruments (guitars, bass, synths, vocals, percussion) I love making compositions by myself in my studio, and both software and/or hardware works fine. But when it comes to live playing with other musicians, it is always hardware.

Yes because you can't play live with software with other musicians or something

Sure, there's a tiny percentage... and that's it.

If I think of all the places I've listened to live music; clubs, bars, cafes, outdoor markets, street buskers, festivals, etc., it has been rare that I've seen live musicians playing a midi controller connected to a laptop.

And even if there is a band where the keyboard player is using a laptop with a midi controller, the rest of the band is playing guitar, bass, drums, and so on.

When it comes to groups of musicians playing live music, hardware reigns supreme.

The reason why I.do this is the exact same reason a TON of keyboardists do this on all kinds of shows and tours besides the fact they sound great and the audience doesn't care, is the reality that with Gig Performer or Mainstage you get tremendous amount of control including automation that you can't get from hardware

That's not true at all. Everything you described is doable with hardware including automation, effects chains per sound splits zones etc. Especially with the Montage M. Maybe you should do a deep dive into it if you still have it because as someone who has used MainStage + MacBook Pro live before, the Montage M is far superior for live performance.

Only I use Gig Performer not mainstage, and unlike you I have first hand experience with using it along side my Montage

Can the Montage do splits? Sure but why would I do that at the controller level? Why wouldn't I do that at the host level? My split points change every song, some songs I might run 4 VSTs and others 3 and other 2 and others 1. In gig performer it's simple to switch from song to song, as I do my plugins change along with all of the effects routings and the physical outputs of each timbre. I am sorry I know you beholden to the Church of Hardware but you are dead wrong here my Montage has EP sounds but I have better EP sounds in software that I can then run through an amp sim again in hardware

So no my Montage can't do that

The other advantage with this setup of course is that I can use any MIDI controller it doesn't have to be a Montage. I can fly into a gig or take the train (and I have) just bring my laptop and literally use ANY controller at the venue. My show is set for 88 keys on a controller, but if they provide me with a 76 that's doable with 2 minutes worth of setup

And keyboardist on tour who use MainStage + Laptop + Midi Controllers are the EXCEPTION and not the RULE. So while I agree some do use MainStage, the majority will have setups similar to that of which you see above.

Only that's not true and ignores the reality in 2025 that many people do fly in shows and don't have the resources to tour with multiple hardware synths. Again I am talking about real working pros across many genres from rock to country to CCM to whatever. You can very easily rent from a supply house a MIDI capable keyboard or two anywhere in the world

Try doing a fly in show sometime with multiple synth hardware only rig and let me know how it works out for you

Nobody wants CPU dropouts, spikes and crackling noises during live performance (which is why I no longer use MainStage live when I do play keys). And my MacBook Pro was maxed out just FYI!

Well I am sorry you have limited yourself to Apple products, I have never experienced any of that playing live with Gig Performer on Windows. I have been using it exclusively for around 40 gigs, but have been doing it in a hybrid setting for several hundred now

[IvyBirds]

When it comes to groups of musicians playing live music, hardware reigns supreme.

When it comes to electronic music acts, this has not been my experience for several years now. I'd say hardware synths as sound sources are actually the minority.

I've been mixing the same autumn festival every year in central Helsinki for almost 20 years now and in the past 5 years or so computers (running Aleton live or MainStage) have completely taken over in music acts that are mainly electronic. Absolute majority of the synth sounds are coming from plugins.. yes from all the band members.

Interesting... seems my experience is a bit out of date. Then again, the only live electronic music acts I've attended have all been single individuals and they mostly use hardware like Eurorack, Elektron boxes, small synths like the MicroFreak, etc.

Anyway, I was not referring to electronic music, but more music in general. I know quite a few musicians and at least half of them never use a computer at all. They play an instrument (guitar, bass, cello, sax, etc.) and the only time they are around a computer is if they are in a studio being recorded.

I'd still say that across the spectrum of live music, the percentage of musicians using a computer and midi controller is in the single digits. I rarely see computers in live music I come across. If it were common, I would see them more often.

But this is a forum about Synths. All you have to do is change the word computer to synth in this sentence

"I know quite a few musicians and at least half of them never use a synth at all. They play an instrument (guitar, bass, cello, sax, etc.) and the only time they are around a synth if they are in a studio being recorded. "

When it comes to Synths and bands that have keyboard rigs to supplement live bands it's almost all computers and Mainstage, Gig Performer, or Abelton depending on their needs

[IvyBirds]

Just saw this video on YouTube. It's Dennis Atlas the new lead keyboard player in Toto breaking down his rig for their current arena tour in Australia

It's all Mainstage, a MacBook, and two MIDI controllers including an Arturia Keylab 88

How anyone who claims to be a synth player can't see the advantages to this approach in a live setting is beyond me, especially as he is able to change patches and splits with a sustain pedal or even just by playing a note during a run

Lots of clips at the end also of him playing live with band in Sidney using that rig

[Hyperbole]

Just saw this video on YouTube. It's Dennis Atlas the new lead keyboard player in Toto breaking down his rig for their current arena tour in Australia

It's all Mainstage, a MacBook, and two MIDI controllers including an Arturia Keylab 88

How anyone who claims to be a synth player can't see the advantages to this approach in a live setting is beyond me, especially as he is able to change patches and splits with a sustain pedal or even just by playing a note during a run

Lots of clips at the end also of him playing live with band in Sidney using that rig

Some dinosaur keyboard players insist that a Fantom or Montage workstation keyboard is "so much faster to set up at the gig" and "has fewer points of failure" than a MacBook and a controller keyboard. They will go on to say, "I'm not taking my $4,000 laptop to a gig where it's going to get knocked over."

For starters, are these guys playing Punk Rock shows? The last time I played live, I didn't have to worry about stage divers. But whatever. You can now get an M4 MacBook Air with 16GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD for $999. Unless you need to load up all of your orchestral libraries on the Air, even the "skimpy" 256GB of storage is plenty for a live performance laptop. And if you need more storage, you can always pay for more without coming anywhere close to spending $4,000.

Moreover, the only "setup" required is plugging a 3ft USB-C cable from the laptop to the controller keyboard. You don't even need power (for either the laptop or the keyboard). That's about as easy a setup as it gets.

But there is no talking sense to some people.

[crimsonwarlock]

I would say that Toto is not an electronic act, and neither a small gigs operation, so.....