Software vs Hardware

[jethrobull]

I recently got my first hardware synth, an analog one, the Behringer Neutron (I know, I know!). I have been using VSTs for years and have most of the good ones. I wanted to see what it's like to turn real knobs and also to see if I can hear anything special in the sound. I should also add that I think the Neutron gets unfairly reviewed. Many don't like the tone you get with the overdrive that is wired in by default. I actually really like it for some things. But I also patch around it and the BBD to get a clean tone, which seems to me comparable to many other analog synths based on my listening to demos.

Comparing the Neutron closely to the sound of VSTs, I have to say I can often get very close, where it would be hard for me to tell the difference blind between a certain Diva patch and the Neutron. However, when using it, it is hard to avoid feeling like there is a bit of magic and richness in the real analog signal. It is pretty nice to have all the knobs too. So immediate!

If I set up a patch where I am doing something like FM, using one oscillator to modulate another and just exploring the space of possible sounds there, or doing some feedback experiments, and so on, there is definitely some advantage to analog. There is no aliasing, for one thing, and there are no steppy changes from 7-bit CC signals. And interesting and subtle little feedback things happen that don't seem to happen when I try to replicate it in software. There is more smoothness and continuousness to things. It also just seems like there is a little more sharpness or crispness, but that might be my imagination!

In Reaktor Blocks, I can almost approximate the smoothness of making adjustments by running a macro through a slew limiter and controlling that macro knob with an encoder on my MIDI controller, but to get the smoothness, you also get lag. And I can hear aliasing artefacts that are not present in the analog version.

For certain intricate modulations, especially with a lot of high frequency stuff, analog seems clearly better. But for most of the sorts of sounds used for actual music, it seems to me there is little advantage sound-wise to analog, and there are many, many advantages to VSTs. You can automate and modulate anything with anything. You have incredible control over it all. There are many things you can do with digital that would be very hard to do with analog, if not impossible. And it is repeatable. And you don't run out of things like attenuators (two are not enough on the Neutron!). And you don't have a problem with noise.

I'll probably get another analog synth or two, since I am quite enjoying the Neutron. But I have also found that I now appreciate more many of the incredible advantages of software, and how close it is to analog hardware these days. Both are amazing and have different strengths! But the sound is very close.

All hail the Neutron! What a beautiful thing indeed

[BONES]

If we're happy or angry we will see the world reflected back to us accordingly.

I think that is definitely untrue. It may be what people seek but I don't think it is really what they see around them. Quite the opposite, they are far more likely to see an exaggerated version of the opposite. In my experience, "happy" people tend to see anger in others that is not necessarily there.

[BONES]

Comparing the Neutron closely to the sound of VSTs, I have to say I can often get very close, where it would be hard for me to tell the difference blind between a certain Diva patch and the Neutron. However, when using it, it is hard to avoid feeling like there is a bit of magic and richness in the real analog signal.

Trust me, it's jus tin your head. Try going the other way - try and get your Neutron to sound like your favourite Diva patches.

It is pretty nice to have all the knobs too. So immediate!

My VSTi are all bristling with knobs, I don't honestly see the difference. Although using virtual patch cables in Korg's ARP 2600 VSTi is, I imagine, a lot less hassle than real patch cords.

If I set up a patch where I am doing something like FM, using one oscillator to modulate another and just exploring the space of possible sounds there, or doing some feedback experiments, and so on, there is definitely some advantage to analog. There is no aliasing, for one thing, and there are no steppy changes from 7-bit CC signals.

So it's better than some really old, crappy VSTi but I can't say I've had a problem with aliasing in more than a decade. There is more smoothness and continuousness to things. It also just seems like there is a little more sharpness or crispness, but that might be my imagination![/quote]
Definitely your imagination. Wait until you want to automate it with MIDI's 128 discrete steps.

[vurt]

If we're happy or angry we will see the world reflected back to us accordingly.

I think that is definitely untrue. It may be what people seek but I don't think it is really what they see around them. Quite the opposite, they are far more likely to see an exaggerated version of the opposite. In my experience, "happy" people tend to see anger in others that is not necessarily there.

im not quite as "aggressive" as you, but i really dont trust anyone, who is always happy. there is something seriously wrong, with people who get bad news, and find the silver lining, every time!

when i say aggressive, i dont really mean aggressive in the sense youd be fighty, just very forthright with your opinion, please dont hit me!

[_leras]

In my experience, "happy" people tend to see anger in others that is not necessarily there.

You mean people think you're angry?

Some people are just very non confrontational and try to avoid any conflict or disagreement whatsoever. I'm not one of them, but then neither are you.

[markello]

I’m not non confrontational myself, but internet personae that are aggro are clearly best avoided.

[_leras]

I probably needed a winky emoji.

[_leras]

I do think that hardware has an edge for a fairly wide swathe of basic sounds.

I wonder if we'll ever see a hardware synth that would/could try to cover some of the modern features e.g.
- Sequenced and synced LFOs and gates
- Much more control over envelopes (where most hardware synths just have the one envelope shape)
- Dual filters
- More exotic filter shapes i.e. vowel and double peaked filter shapes
- more flexible routing

[Artie Fichelle]

The market has already decided who the winner is, it is software.

[BONES]

I do think that hardware has an edge for a fairly wide swathe of basic sounds.

Then you're wrong and listening to any half-decent music made with softsynths will confirm that to any unbiased observer. There may still be some very narrow, mostly unmusical niches where hardware can go and software can't but for "basic sounds", softsynths are at least as capable as any hardware and mostly far more capable.

I wonder if we'll ever see a hardware synth that would/could try to cover some of the modern features e.g.
- Sequenced and synced LFOs and gates
- Much more control over envelopes (where most hardware synths just have the one envelope shape)
- Dual filters
- More exotic filter shapes i.e. vowel and double peaked filter shapes
- more flexible routing

I used to own an Alesis Micron and it had most of that, 20+ years ago. After all, a lot of hardware synths these days are just computers in a custom form factor.

[SiliconDeath]

I think things in general must be made with good taste, otherwise you get synths like polybrute. I much prefer the sounds from LegendHz !

[_leras]

The market has already decided who the winner is, it is software.

Yet we have more new hardware synths and modular than ever before.

Software synths do do somethings better, but there are lots of people who prefer having hands on instruments.

Also, not every synth sound needs the advanced modulation and wavetable craziness.

[pdxindy]

The market has already decided who the winner is, it is software.

Yet we have more new hardware synths and modular than ever before.

Yup, this is the golden age of hardware... there's never been such a variety as there is today.

[swilow11]

Too much variety?

My name is Swilow and I'm a gasaholic

[_leras]

I do think that hardware has an edge for a fairly wide swathe of basic sounds.

Then you're wrong and listening to any half-decent music made with softsynths will confirm that to any unbiased observer. There may still be some very narrow, mostly unmusical niches where hardware can go and software can't but for "basic sounds", softsynths are at least as capable as any hardware and mostly far more capable.

I used to own an Alesis Micron and it had most of that, 20+ years ago. After all, a lot of hardware synths these days are just computers in a custom form factor.

It's getting closer for sure, and a lot of what I do is with software based instruments, so I'm not against software instruments at all. I just think hardware still has a little something that you don't get as much of from software instruments, mainly presence or perhaps a bit of character from the synths hardware limitations.

For sure there have been good digital synths for many years. I guess what I'd like to see if some kind of hybrid. The novation summit comes close to what I think could be done more wavetables, extra filter options, advanced and programmable Lfo shapes would be great.