Roland ZENOLOGY Pro on sale on Roland's website!

[DevonB]

After researching this a bit more and revisiting my Integra-7 for a few hours this evening, two things are clear to me:

1) Roland Cloud is an overpriced sh!tshow that will never get my money, and

2) I'm keeping the Integra-7. I let it get out-of-sight/out-of-mind, but now that I'm using again I've reminded myself of exactly why I bought it in the first place. There's nothing else like it.

You and I in the same boat somewhat. I do have an Integra-7, and I have the XV-5080 plugin. Why? The Integra 7 doesn't have the same effects block configuration because the darn unit is in Performance Mode instead of Patch mode like the original. Grrrr... While many presets do sound the 'same', plenty don't because it's lacking the original effects block of the XV-5080 hardware unit. So I settled with the plugin (and sold my XV-5080 for the second time) as that does use a Master FX block on each individual preset like the hardware did. I do like the Integra 7 though. I do love having all the SRX cards. I do love having the SuperNatural engine. Just irritated about the effects, which is why I still had the hardware XV-5080 (and it was cheaper than buying all the SRX cards in the end.) I have a long history with Roland romplers with pre-ordering the JV-2080 back in 1996 and have had 2 XV-5080's, XV-5050, XV-2020, Fantom XR, JD-990, JV-880, and now the Integra 7. I dislike how many shortcomings there are between all these units and 'supposedly' being the same, but they aren't, even with hardware.

I was also waffling on buying the Zenology Pro plugin, but it just sounds so.... flat. With already having XV-5080 plugin, along with the Integra 7, it seems like tremendous overlap, and it just doesn't sound all that great to begin with for things that are not in the Integra 7 to begin with. Saved $99 for something more worthwhile.

Devon

[peterdh]

*Delete*

[kmonkey]

After researching this a bit more and revisiting my Integra-7 for a few hours this evening, two things are clear to me:

1) Roland Cloud is an overpriced sh!tshow that will never get my money, and

2) I'm keeping the Integra-7. I let it get out-of-sight/out-of-mind, but now that I'm using again I've reminded myself of exactly why I bought it in the first place. There's nothing else like it.

You and I in the same boat somewhat. I do have an Integra-7, and I have the XV-5080 plugin. Why? The Integra 7 doesn't have the same effects block configuration because the darn unit is in Performance Mode instead of Patch mode like the original. Grrrr... While many presets do sound the 'same', plenty don't because it's lacking the original effects block of the XV-5080 hardware unit. So I settled with the plugin (and sold my XV-5080 for the second time) as that does use a Master FX block on each individual preset like the hardware did. I do like the Integra 7 though. I do love having all the SRX cards. I do love having the SuperNatural engine. Just irritated about the effects, which is why I still had the hardware XV-5080 (and it was cheaper than buying all the SRX cards in the end.) I have a long history with Roland romplers with pre-ordering the JV-2080 back in 1996 and have had 2 XV-5080's, XV-5050, XV-2020, Fantom XR, JD-990, JV-880, and now the Integra 7. I dislike how many shortcomings there are between all these units and 'supposedly' being the same, but they aren't, even with hardware.

I was also waffling on buying the Zenology Pro plugin, but it just sounds so.... flat. With already having XV-5080 plugin, along with the Integra 7, it seems like tremendous overlap, and it just doesn't sound all that great to begin with for things that are not in the Integra 7 to begin with. Saved $99 for something more worthwhile.

Devon

I had Integra 7 once upon a time. I regret selling it to this date. I don't know, I think it sounded pretty amazing. Did the editors evolve over time? I had some shitty eye killer editor and their VST3 editor was donut.

Again, only piece of gear I miss. It's like some sort of space machine.

[beely]

it won't sound the same because zenology does not have the fx built in and TURNED ON in each patch like the xv 5080 and the jv do. to activate the mfx in the zenology versions of these patches, you have to turn on the reverb knob up next to the level knob as far as I can tell.

The MFX are active, but the reverb is not. All patches default to the Reverb Send control fully down, and if you turn it up, and select another patch, it will go back to zero.

So, I thought, I can at least add the Rev Send knob to my controller so I can quickly change it like I can the Patch Level (the knob next to the Rev Send knob), and the macro knobs etc.

Except... the Rev Send is not an automatable control, and so is not accessible to the DAW's automation system (and therefore my MIDI assigns).

So basically, the reverb as far as I can see *on all the thousands of factory and expansion content* is off, and requires individually turning it up by mouse (or regular MIDI learn which I don’t use) every time you select/browse a patch. (Probably better to use an external reverb plugin on a send for auditioning unless you like the dry sounds.)

Interestingly, the JD-800 model expansion, and *only* this one, *does* include a second MFX block, I guess to make it possible to recreate the JD-800 factory patches (and also required for the plugin version, which uses the same engine). The "MFX Group B" (on the second row of the screenshot) has three FX, a Chorus, a Delay, and a Reverb, and these *are* used in the patches, so they have reverb by default. (They don't use the main Zenology reverb block - unless you turn up the Rev Send of course). So it seems there's no inherent problem in Zenology adding another FX block when the instrument makes use of it. They didn't bother for the XV presets though.
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jd.jpg

[N 4 LIFE]

it won't sound the same because zenology does not have the fx built in and TURNED ON in each patch like the xv 5080 and the jv do. to activate the mfx in the zenology versions of these patches, you have to turn on the reverb knob up next to the level knob as far as I can tell.

The MFX are active, but the reverb is not. All patches default to the Reverb Send control fully down, and if you turn it up, and select another patch, it will go back to zero.

So, I thought, I can at least add the Rev Send knob to my controller so I can quickly change it like I can the Patch Level (the knob next to the Rev Send knob), and the macro knobs etc.

Except... the Rev Send is not an automatable control, and so is not accessible to the DAW's automation system (and therefore my MIDI assigns).

So basically, the reverb as far as I can see *on all the thousands of factory and expansion content* is off, and requires individually turning it up by mouse (or regular MIDI learn which I don’t use) every time you select/browse a patch. (Probably better to use an external reverb plugin on a send for auditioning unless you like the dry sounds.)

Interestingly, the JD-800 model expansion, and *only* this one, *does* include a second MFX block, I guess to make it possible to recreate the JD-800 factory patches (and also required for the plugin version, which uses the same engine). The "MFX Group B" (on the second row of the screenshot) has three FX, a Chorus, a Delay, and a Reverb, and these *are* used in the patches, so they have reverb by default. (They don't use the main Zenology reverb block - unless you turn up the Rev Send of course). So it seems there's no inherent problem in Zenology adding another FX block when the instrument makes use of it. They didn't bother for the XV presets though.
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jd.jpg

Thank you dear friend for helping us figure out this FX mess they have created. Hopefully some of my recent observations will be helpful to you.
First, maybe this will be some good news for you. You CAN save the reverb setting on every patch.
You have to go one patch at a time in zenology and then turn up the reverb knob up top to your liking. Then you have to make a user bank for your patches and save each patch you've changed to that bank. That will keep your reverb from being reset to zero every time you switch patches because you will have saved them all to a user bank with reverb like you set it (trust me this does work).

Second: Roland allows you to have a non Zenology version of the JV 1080 and the xV 5080. When pulling up the FX panel on the non Zenology units, there ARE three MFX options there similar to your above example on the JD 800. The sound goes to the MFX one which has their standard list (modulation, chorus, flange, etc) and then block 2 is the chorus and block 3 is the reverb. If you have the standalone JV or XV you'll see those three options feeding the main outputs.

On Zenology, they have the MFX block 1 which is pretty much the same as XV and block 2 is the Reverb. THEY LEFT OUT ONE BLOCK of the 3. Hence, one of the reasons Zenology sounds like poop.

My earlier point of them making a separate thing of "Zenology FX" and a separate thing of the "Juno Chorus" is them charging for the FX blocks they are leaving out. So, not only do your Zen versions of the JV and XP suck but you have to figure out patch by patch what the original FX set up was on all your favorite patches, then save that patch by patch into your user bank. This is a giant pain in the ass.

To be fair, Essential Presets 2 bank in Zenology they did bother to turn the reverb on, finally.
Still, this is a major design mishap as I'm sure they are people out there who hear the Zen version of a patch and go "hmmm, that doesn't sound right" and then they pull up the XV version and go "oh, that sounds right, I guess I have to buy a separate XV 5080 along with all the other expenses".

So, thanks for helping us get to the bottom of this stuff. All they had to do is copy the MFX structure and set it correctly for all the SRX and JV, etc patches and they would have sold a lot more copies of Zenology.

[JerGoertz]

So, just to clarify/confirm: The basic Zenology is just a ROMpler with some basic (generic) VA stuff?

[IvyBirds]

So, just to clarify/confirm: The basic Zenology is just a ROMpler with some basic (generic) VA stuff?

Yes

[JerGoertz]

So, just to clarify/confirm: The basic Zenology is just a ROMpler with some basic (generic) VA stuff?

Yes

Thanks, you just saved me $99

[beely]

To be fair, Essential Presets 2 bank in Zenology they did bother to turn the reverb on, finally.

Good spot - yes, from preset bank H to L the patches *do* have the reverb send level turned up - I'd guess then that these banks were made after Roland added the reverb block into Zenology (it wasn't there in the earlier version afaic), so the reverb was actually used, but Roland didn't want to change the previous presets available pre-Reverb (including the model expansions).

For the rest of the expansions banks, it's a grab bag - the ZE banks do have reverb, the EXZ don't, and neither do the SDZ.

BTW There is good stuff in Zenology, it contains a lot of Roland's latest tech and FX, and there are nice patches in there, so in no way am I saying it's a bad product or not worth the sale price - I'm just pointing out some differences that make me prefer particular plugins for particular purposes. When I just want the XV-5080 stuff in the box (so I don't need my hardware), the XV-5080 plugin is perfect (apart from the lack of third-party sample support, multi-mode etc).

[Examigan]

I’d kind of like to get it mainly for the UI. I like it more than the XV-5080 plugin UI.
I’m just not sure it’s worth it for the UI alone, even if it’s on sale. I guess I’d get the other presets too, so that’s another factor.

[Oberheim 8000]

I read the topic, but if I understand it right, Zenology Pro has every samples from all model expansion (if they have samples), but it sound different? And what it means different? And as I understand, the difference is only in FX? If yes, the difference too much? I heard sound example that was posted, I can hear a difference, but it is not some big change in character.

Also about Roland Cloud Manager, I have to be online all time I use Zenology Pro?

[Echoes in the Attic]

Does zenology pro include all the sample content and patches from the srx expansions that they have as separate products in Roland cloud like srx world and srx dance?

[beely]

I read the topic, but if I understand it right, Zenology Pro has every samples from all model expansion (if they have samples), but it sound different?

Zen Pro does not include the model expansions, no. You have to buy those as extras. They are not samples, apart from the JD-800 one, they are analog synth replications using mostly the VA engine. They are not as good sounding as the official ACB plugin versions, which use a different modelling technique which is more CPU heavy - apart from the JD-800, which is just the same Zencore engine as the model expansion in Zenology.

Also about Roland Cloud Manager, I have to be online all time I use Zenology Pro?

No.

Does zenology pro include all the sample content and patches from the srx expansions that they have as separate products in Roland cloud like srx world and srx dance?

No. Some of it I'm sure, some more is probably in the Wave expansions for Zenology, but it's not advertised as containing all the SRX content as such. If you want the SRX content, you'll need a subscription to get access to all the SRX plugins, unless you want to buy them, or at least the ones you're interested in.

[IvyBirds]

I read the topic, but if I understand it right, Zenology Pro has every samples from all model expansion (if they have samples), but it sound different? And what it means different? And as I understand, the difference is only in FX? If yes, the difference too much? I heard sound example that was posted, I can hear a difference, but it is not some big change in character.

Also about Roland Cloud Manager, I have to be online all time I use Zenology Pro?

It's confusing, but let me try to explain

There is a basic "Zenology Pro" product. This has a bunch of samples content and a basic VA Engine. That is what's on sale for $99

On top of that they sell a bunch of additional sample content and "model expansions". On the VA side of say you get the Jupiter 8 model expansion it will install additional VA content that mimics the various things that make up a Jupiter 8 and when running that you get a streamlined GUI just for the Jupiter 8

Please note that is different and uses different technology/modeling than the regular Jupiter 8 plugin which is based on what Roland calls ACB. The ACB version will sound a lot closer to the actual Jupiter 8 hardware but uses more CPU which hits your ability to have polyphony

The idea behind Zenology is to offer a wide variety of sounds with lots of polyphony at the expense of a bit of Authenticity

I think for live use you wouldn't notice any difference on the audience won't care, if however I was recording and wanted a Jupiter 8 sound I would go with the ACB Jupiter 8 plugin, despite the CPU hit

In the end from my perspective with all of the Zenology Pro products and expansions if your goal is to emulate the original hardware you are better off using the plugins for that hardware

Where Zenology really shines is in making patches that mix and match bits and pieces from multiple different things into something new, or for live use in one of the Zenology Core based hardware synths as you get a bunch of synths in one package with good polyphony

As for being online, the Roland Cloud products need to be authorized with the Roland Cloud Manager software. In theory it needs to connect once every 30 days to some server somewhere to keep it authorized even when you own it outright. In reality this causes all kinds of issues and is very buggy

It's a real shame also as I really like a lot of the actual instruments and have a very very long relationship with Rolands hardware synths. I walked away from anything to do with the cloud when one Saturday afternoon I logged into Roland Cloud to "authorize" the software I own and a few hours later at the Gig which was at a Wedding Venue in a rural mountain area with no WiFi or cell service it locked me out of my software and I couldn't use it. Thank God I have alternative plugins and sounds on my Montage that I could use

It's frustrating to say the least

[N 4 LIFE]

I read the topic, but if I understand it right, Zenology Pro has every samples from all model expansion (if they have samples), but it sound different? And what it means different? And as I understand, the difference is only in FX? If yes, the difference too much? I heard sound example that was posted, I can hear a difference, but it is not some big change in character.
o
Also about Roland Cloud Manager, I have to be online all time I use Zenology Pro?

I will try and answer your questions. Zenology does not have all the samples from the Roland Library. It has a lot of them though.

Zenology does not sound like the original hardware models of Roland synthesizers. Roland did not put all of the effects into the factory sounds that many of us were expecting. I for one, can hear a big change in the character of the JV, XV, JX, and other synths because to my ears Zenology does not have a good tone as the hardware or plug in versions. To me, if I play a Zenology patch and then play the same patch on a plug out version, the tone of the non Zenology does not compare at all.
No, you don't have to be online all the time to use Roland Cloud, but there are many stories from many of us when we tried to use Roland Cloud instruments where there was no internet. The Roland instruments are not trustable at all if you are playing in the mountains, the desert, the beach, remote villages, etc.