Is it just me or Serum/Vital sounds without life?

[JO512]

No, it's just the way Serum sounds.

I really disagree that there even is a "way Serum sounds" as compared to other synths. A huge range of sound is possible with Serum. If you compare a single straight saw with no filter to the same in Diva or Pigments or whatever, you'll be hard-pressed to hear a meaningful difference. And take a two-pole filter at low resonance from each and set it to approximately the same cutoff, and you'll still be hard-pressed to hear much of a difference.

Where you'll start to hear more character differences with filters is with higher resonance or very fast modulation, especially with saturated, feedbacky, screaming filters, like the MS-20 style ones in Diva or the creak filters in Massive X or the French LP or scream filters in Serum. But a lot of that's not really a better or worse thing. It's a matter of different flavors and your taste. But there is nothing intrinsically "brittle" or "harsh" about Serum's oscillators or envelopes or filters. I'd challenge you to a test of your ability to tell which synth some test sounds come from. I could give you a blind test comparing basic sounds from Serum and Pigments and see if you can reliably distinguish them when I make very similar basic patches with them.

I am not entirely sure exactly what it is that you are hearing, but if you are hearing real, objective differences, I bet it is mostly a matter of differing sound design. It may be that the different synths have some features that tend to get used that you don't like the sound of, like Serum's oscillator warp modes (sync and whatnot, which seems maybe present in the Guetta lead sound), some of the included non-standard wavetables, and so on. Maybe some of those wavetables have too much emphasis on higher partials or something. But I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference with basic pure saws and whatnot from different synths.

Serum sounds like a basic soft synth from 1998 while Pigments sounds like hardware.

Even if you hear some kind of difference, this is surely a huge exaggeration. I also find this a bit amusing because a few years back, I remember having a somewhat similar discussion with others who insisted that Pigments sounds thin and weak and brittle, and I was defending Pigments! There are lots of people who think everything Arturia intrinsically sounds bad. But I think with Pigments, in my tests several years back, if I remember correctly, it is a bit less clean than Serum if you closely compare tones on a spectrum analyzer. Maybe more aliasing and distortion and noise. I'd have to compare closely again to verify. They might have improved things in the meantime anyway. But Serum's oscillators seem to be a bit more pure and ideal than most synths. Maybe some people don't like such pure oscillators, instead preferring some dirt in the sound.

I like some dirt too, but I like to be able to control it. It is easier to put it in than to take it out.

Here is an example of the Love Tonight lead I made that does not sound lifeless and brittle:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1g2ktrry ... j4dsn&dl=0

Honestly, though your sound is nice, I actually like the Guetta sound more. It actually sounds less sterile to me! Yesterday, I was trying to replicate it in Serum and couldn't quite figure out how to get the peculiar interesting quality of that lead sound. Maybe it's something about his reverb or something. I notice he seemed to be using a preset called Oddyssey from an Abletunes sound pack called Future Rave. I looked that up and found a video demoing that soundset. The preset there sounded quite different, so Guetta must have changed it considerably. I don't know. I couldn't quite match it, but am curious as to how it's done, as I quite like the sound. I'm tempted to buy the soundset to see what's going on exactly in the original patch.

I listened to your examples, and of course they don't sound harsh because the filter is cut so much, but I don't think they have any life in them.

The filter does open up with a decent amount of resonance in places. But I don't know what it is that you are looking for that gives you the sense that there is or isn't "life" in it. Since you like old Virus sounds and whatnot, and since Pigments seems to have a slightly lower fidelity sound engine than Serum, and you prefer that, maybe you prefer to hear a some digital artefacts in your sound, in the same way that some people love the sound of old sampler DACs and whatnot. Maybe you like that character?

It also occurs to me that it is possible you have some hearing damage that causes you some discomfort with certain frequencies and whatnot. I have some of that myself, and certain sounds cause a kind of internal distortion and discomfort. I could see a lot of people thinking that such a situation inheres in the objective sound rather than in their own hearing system. We do have different ears and brains, after all. If you are an active DJ and spend time in loud clubs, it would be surprising if you didn't have a bit of hearing damage.

[enCiphered]

Good discussion here
Conversations like this always remind me how much our perception of a synth's character is shaped not just by its raw engine, but also by the context it’s used in and our personal experiences and expectations. I agree with the point that differences between synths like Serum, Pigments, Diva, etc., tend to become more apparent with complex modulation, saturated filters, or unique design quirks but at the core, the building blocks can be surprisingly similar.

I also really appreciate the perspective that sonic purity isn't inherently a downside. Some of us prefer starting with a clean, controlled sound and then adding grit or imperfections as a creative choice, rather than being locked into a particular tonal color from the outset. In the end, tools like Serum are incredibly versatile, and the final result often depends more on the artist’s intent, processing chain, and even subtle psychological factors than on the synth alone.

It's always interesting to hear different takes on what sounds “lifeless” versus “alive,” especially when we’re ultimately chasing a vibe rather than an objective truth. Everyone hears through their own filter, and that’s part of what makes music production so endlessly fascinating and subjective.

I'm still exploring the new features in Serum 2, and I honestly couldn't be more grateful for the incredible creative power Xfer has given us without asking for a single cent. It's amazing. I've already spent hours diving into it and have discovered a whole universe of fresh inspiration and sounds to work with.

[JO512]

I made a mistake. The soundset that the preset Oddyssey is from is called Nocturne. I guess "Future Rave" is the genre. Shows what I know! It is here:
https://abletunes.com/product/sample-pa ... s-nocturne

You can hear that preset at 9:00 in that video. It sounds very different from what Guetta is using in that other video, but you can see that he has this preset loaded.

[JO512]

Sure enough. I checked a simple pure saw in Serum and Pigments on a spectrum analyzer. With Serum, even at the default 2x oversampling, the plot looks quite pure, with no obvious aliasing reflections and very high SNR and a straight line descent of overtone amplitudes. Pigments shows a worse plot, with obvious aliasing reflections and lower SNR and a wavy distribution of partial amplitudes. There are no settings that I can see to increase oversampling or quality in Pigments. In Serum, if you select 1x (draft) mode, the aliasing is far worse than Pigments. And it is also significantly louder with a single saw and no filter! But I must say that this doesn't necessarily sound worse, just different in character. It might be preferable to use the draft mode for more character. I am curious, @djanthonyw, if you might actually prefer the sound of Serum when in draft mode.

[JO512]

I tried Diva too and the overtone series for the Moog OSC section falls off with a bit of a curve, unlike Serum, which is very straight, and Pigments, which is wavy. It depends though in Diva, since there are different oscillator sections. They all have a different plot. All of them have "imperfections", unlike Serum, which looks basically ideal. It's interesting though to see what happens in Serum if you select different wavetables with analog emulation saw waveforms. Those are very "imperfect" in their overtone series amplitude distributions, unlike the perfect saw, but they still have no obvious aliasing reflections or noise. Very pure still in that sense. I wonder if the sterility and lifelessness some hear is actually this clean, pure aspect of Serum's oscillators. I guess if you don't like this, you can reduce quality, add distortion or noise, or whatever.

Interestingly, when I cycle through the quality settings in Serum with only a single pure saw, I hear a difference between 1x and 2x, but nothing detectable between 2x and 4x. But if I turn up the number of unisons, I cease to be able to hear a difference between 1x and 2x or 4x. And the volume difference also disappears. Regardless of my ears, I can still see a difference between 1x and 2x. 1x looks more uneven and "dirty" with more overtone amplitude unevenness and time-variability, probably because of interference with aliasing reflections.

[JO512]

It is interesting. Diva's Moog oscillators have a dirtier plot than Pigments, which is dirtier than Serum's, the latter being the cleanest. So since so many people love the sound of Diva, I thought maybe people like dirtier oscillators. But then when I checked Repro-1, it has a cleaner plot than Pigments or Diva. And many people say Repro sounds better and more analog than Diva. Go figure! I also tried Massive X. It is as clean as Serum, but the high frequency partials roll off even if no filter is connected in the routing section, as if there is a filter up there to prevent reflections. Serum's overtone series extends higher than Massive X's. I also tried Phase Plant. It has a quite clean saw plot, like Massive and Serum. But like Massive, it also rolls off at high frequencies, but at a higher point than Massive X. From cleanest to dirtiest simple saw oscillators with no filters:

Serum
Phase Plant
Massive X
Repro-1
Pigments
Diva Moog

[JO512]

This is interesting. I wonder if people who say that Serum sounds sterile or lifeless are actually hearing how clean it is and they don't like this near perfect saw sound. If I compare the sounds of various saws without looking at a plot, I can hear subtle differences, but they aren't better or worse to my ears, just very slightly different.

It would be fun to see if someone can blindly distinguish Serum from the others.

[JO512]

By the way, I found by ear that the stock Oddyssey patch's most characteristic feature is the "Hyper" effect, along with lots of noise and nearly in-tune unisons that start out in-phase. I'd have to buy the pack to confirm this though.

[JO512]

I also tried Spire, which seems much-loved for its tone and it seems dirtiest of all so far, dirtier than Diva. I think I am noticing a trend. Many people don't seem to like clean and ideal oscillators.

[JO512]

I put on headphones and turned the volume up and tried to really, really listen to see if I could hear the extra dirt in the Pigments saw versus Serum and I just can't. There is no way I'd be able to tell in a blind test. Maybe others have better ears than I do!

[JO512]

Here is a comparison of the simple saw oscillator sounds of two of the synths we've been talking about. The two synths alternate repeatedly. Try to see if you can hear a difference, and if so, try to guess which one is Serum.

https://soundcloud.com/user-260326741/s ... al_sharing

[JO512]

Wow, Soundcloud really degrades the audio. That sounds much different from on my PC!

[JO512]

Here is an undegraded WAV of that:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Oin8C ... sp=sharing

[DCrown]

It is the same with Pigments, but sometimes a sound like that is a good addition.
If you used a mini moog or Juno all the time, it would become boring

[cron]

This is interesting. I wonder if people who say that Serum sounds sterile or lifeless are actually hearing how clean it is and they don't like this near perfect saw sound. If I compare the sounds of various saws without looking at a plot, I can hear subtle differences, but they aren't better or worse to my ears, just very slightly different.

It would be fun to see if someone can blindly distinguish Serum from the others.

Serum 2 has come out since this post and is much better in this area since it allows 'true' frame morphing, but in Serum 1 the wavetable modulation was dirty. I always found Serum bigging up the low noise of its oscillators on the product page kind of funny, because modulating the wavetable position instantly makes those graphs among the nastiest you will see on a WT synth. And y'know, modulating the wavetable position is kinda the point of WT synthesis. The more 'extreme' the wavetable, the higher the noise floor, but even tables that change very gradually (e.g. a 256-frame saw-to-sine) were affected.