EMU 1212m/1616m on Windows 7 - The Thread to End All Other EMU Threads!

[planetearth]

Thanks for taking the time to post that. It looks like it could be helpful to some people.

Steve

[eq1]

Thanks for taking the time to post that. It looks like it could be helpful to some people.

Yeah, no problem. But... After I posted I took more time sifting through the files in each executable archive, and? And, though the dates on most of the top-level files are what I wrote above, where 2_30_00 are 2011 and Beta 2010, most of the dates on the actual drivers are not like that. 2_30_00 are mostly 2009, Beta 2010. But, the file dates look sort of suspicious, hard to explain... Almost all the files in each archive have identical sizes, but the years differ by exactly 1 year. I know dates can be manipulated, I used to do that myself, you can just type in a specific year and change all the files at once, for example...

Anyway, there's maybe a few files that have different sizes, like 3 maybe?. I didn't write them down. I'm talking about single driver files, so, not a folder or archive that might have different files within it and so have different sizes (for example, like different language packs). The HA10kx2k.sys that I mentioned above had different sizes, as I recall the Beta file was larger. I'd normally think the larger size file would be the later version, but you don't really know for sure, updates could result in a smaller file. I know there's a critical file that's existed for transitions between Windows versions, like moving from W7 to 10, I think that was ctoss2k.sys. Those had different sizes, again, I think the Beta file was larger...

Who the F knows. It's stupid that we have to guess like this, try to figure this stuff out, blind... My guess is simply that the 'original' (likely 'updated-but-not-properly-documented') 2_30_00 is more likely to be the driver package that's supposed to be 'better', otherwise Creative wouldn't have added language to the download page that outright says it works with Windows 7, plus, they wouldn't leave the Beta package in Beta status. They have the presence of mind to change the 'high level' info, but fail to do the same at lower levels - because there's like, only some new intern doing this stuff that matters to them in like the slimmest possible ways...

* * *

On other matters, if anyone just happens to know, or have ideas about, what different LED lighting patterns mean on the front panel of the 1616 audio dock - I'm all ears. When you turn the dock ON, the LEDs on the front panel, like the input level meter displays, clipping indicators, phantom power active - those light-up, usually I think they all light-up when you turn dock ON, they remain lit for a few seconds, and then go out when the dock is 'booted'. But sometimes the pattern is different. For example, only the red phantom power LED lights, or maybe it's just a couple of the input meter LEDs, not all of them. I've seen maybe 3, 4 different patterns. I've emailed Creative before about this, no help. I've searched and search the internet, nothing. I even emailed Universal Audio, not too long ago, as my understanding is that folks from E-MU started UAD. I thought maybe there was some old engineer floating around who might know what the patterns mean and think it was a funny, quirky issue to explore. I don't think I ever got a response from them. Not an earth-shattering issue, just something that...bugs me off and on, like, why put in this seemingly diagnostic lighting code but not document what it means, anywhere?. Just annoying. The 1010, 1212, 1616 manual is so great, too, tons of info, very detailed and thorough. Just that this one thing slipped through the cracks.

[planetearth]

Thanks for the update on the "BETA" drivers. I'm inclined to agree with you about the "suspicious" dates, and I definitely agree that it's a shame we have to guess.

I'll check my 1820m the next time I boot my DAW to see what the lights do. I haven't paid attention to them in a long time (since it's been working fine), but as far as I recall, they just step through the LEDs as a "self-check" and then lock to the bit depth and sample rate the driver dictates when Windows boots. I have a small printed manual that came with the interface, but there's a much more comprehensive PDF available. That said, I've never checked it for LED status indicators, so I don't know if that's even covered. I imagine it is though, since everything was very well documented for the E-MU and Emulator X3, which came with it.

Steve

[CalvinWMS77]

My apologies in advance for posing a question in such a wonderfully detailed informational post. I am in the process of setting up my 1820m and I want to make sure that I don't blow anything up or damage the dock by using the wrong cord. I do not have the original EDI cable that came with the 1820m as I purchased mine so very long ago. I have found that normal Cat5 connectors fit the socket, but I am super reluctant to just trust it would be functional with regards to the carrying of power to the Micro dock for the phantom 48v power for mics. Is there some specific cable that is needed or will a heavier shielded CAT5 cable be sufficient?

[planetearth]

My apologies in advance for posing a question in such a wonderfully detailed informational post. I am in the process of setting up my 1820m and I want to make sure that I don't blow anything up or damage the dock by using the wrong cord. I do not have the original EDI cable that came with the 1820m as I purchased mine so very long ago. I have found that normal Cat5 connectors fit the socket, but I am super reluctant to just trust it would be functional with regards to the carrying of power to the Micro dock for the phantom 48v power for mics. Is there some specific cable that is needed or will a heavier shielded CAT5 cable be sufficient?

Several people in this thread (and another one on this topic on KVR) have suggested a standard Cat 5/5e cable is sufficient. Others have suggested trying to find one with the choke on it, to minimize interference.

I haven't tried a Cat 5/5e cable without a choke, so I can't speak to the interference issue, but either cable is sufficient for the phantom power voltage.

Steve

[polanve]

Hi,

Windows keeps nagging me to 'upgrade' to 11. I have had excellent results with Windows 10 using the method devised by ClubHouseKey (Thank you!)

My question: Will my system work after upgrading to Windows11?

I am running:
EMU1212 (1010 PCI Card and 0202 Daughter)
MSI Z370 PC PRO MB
Core i5 9600K CPU
16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @ 1500MHz RAM
1 TB SSD in M.2 slot

[Reticular]

On the utp cable topic, i tried various, probably 10 of them, upto 6A and i recommend using the stock(5e) and if not, getting a shielded one(6A etc.) but in that case i advise getting several different colors(different specs) and try them out quickly and go with the gut, for exsample some can have some phase shift going and smearing....not audiophile stuff btw, it is clearly hearable.

1616M, if the led lights are acting wierd and have a different order every time while turning on or sometimes, it is probably known problem being very poor power capacitors, there are two of them, 680uf10v, the same thing happened to me but in a span of a several days it went to never shutting the led´s off and the capacitors were bulged. Sometimes they dont even need to bulge, G-Luxon are known low tier capacitors and should be replaced with something like Nichicon(also from the know dealer.. not ebay or aliexpress if not a bit more expirienced)

And the thrid, anyone a bit more techy and willing to risk i would recommend recapping the 1010 PCI card from the 1212/M and 1820/M, versions that have transformer and a firewire port. There are 3x100uf 16v and 2x22uf 16v, the sound change is kinda...transforming, but if anyone is that interested i can give you some directions, i spend months trying different combinations, measuring and recording, comparing. PM

[planetearth]

I replaced the power capacitors, since my 1820m breakout box wouldn't show any LEDs when booting, and PatchMix couldn't find it when that was installed. I used Panasonic or Nichicon (I don't remember, since this was 12 years ago), but yeah, the stock electrolytics were not made to last this long. (Then again, neither was I, so....)

If you have some tips on which capacitors to use to improve the sound quality, I'll bet others here would like to see them (myself included). Back when I had to replace my capacitors, this thread wasn't even available. (I think it started a month or so after I had replaced mine.) I had to rely upon some useful sites that are long gone now. And while they were helpful in replacing the power supply capacitors, they didn't go into any other replacement suggestions.

Steve

[Reticular]

I´ve been thinking about how should i go about it, recommending and pulling some data about the change via capacitor swap, i cannot find the most capacitors i use available in any store be it Mouser/Digikey...so i´m a bit reluctant now on recommending anyone to spend time and not getting the right ones/right effect. I even have the same caps speced the same with a tiny bit of phisicall size difference and it matters whole lot, i would not put any random ones. I did tried two full hands of caps sourced from the broken car mp3/cd/dvd like Pioneer and even some Elna caps from the old floppy drives(??!)..so it is a bit more complicated than i thought.

Even tho the main power capacitor, the first one next to the PCI connection is 1000uf 16v Panasonic, still available, but it is just the 25% of the pie..
https://de.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminiu ... en/2286694
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0SoAAOSw ... l1600.webp
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ZFsAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg

[planetearth]

Well, that sucks about Mouser and DigiKey for the parts. I understand your reluctance if the same capacitors you used aren't readily available.

According to Wikipedia, "As of 2013, DigiKey is the fourth largest electronic component distributor in North America and the fifth largest electronic component distributor overall". Looks like I'll have to find out who's bigger. I'm probably going to have to replace more capacitors before I decide it's no longer worth fixing these things.

Thanks anyway!

Steve

[Reticular]

I’ll post this. I think tinkering and extending the lifespan of these cards is still a worthwhile decision. Hopefully, USB 3.1 or 4.0 will bring us back to the performance levels we had with PCI/e.

The five capacitors around the DSP on the 1010 PCI card are all Jamicon: three 100µF 16V and two 47µF 16V.

To be honest, my tests were primarily done to evaluate the effects on clock/jitter. I noticed that imaging becomes smeared when recording with those DSP effects. This issue applies to the 1212M and 1820/M but not the 1616/M.

Except for the main power cap, all four others should be replaced within their specified ratings. The one between the crystals can be 100µF without causing harm. I experimented with much larger and audio-grade capacitors, but they didn’t work. Adhering to the specs is best, especially after replacing the main power cap, which in this case is 10 times the original value. Using different capacitors will yield different results. I’ve tried a huge number of caps, and only a few made a noticeable difference.

For anyone who enjoys tinkering, here’s a small guide. For soldering instructions, I recommend searching online. Note that all work is done at your own risk—I cannot be held responsible for any harm to yourself or your equipment. Please be cautious (P.S. If you’re new to electronics, consider using ChatGPT for guidance).


Unfortunately, for the tests and loopback recordings, I only recorded the file through Patchmix, and it’s an officially released song. If anyone is interested in hearing it, please send me a private message.

This information may also be useful for 0404 PCI or even 1616M PCI cards, as they also use 100µF or 47µF Jamicon caps.

Lastly, if you don’t want to order new capacitors, you can salvage them from old motherboards, routers, switches (like D-Link), or tape decks in the shed. Some contain audio-grade (or semi-audio-grade) caps. I got lucky with a PCB from a broken old Sony Trinitron TV and an Intel Skulltrail motherboard, which had Panasonics, Nichicons, Rubycons, and film(the red ones already on the PCI card and in the dock)—essential for noise filtering. It’s a shame they skimped on quality capacitors like this, especially considering EMU’s decline during that period.

Good luck!

[planetearth]

I´ll post this, i think thinkering and saving a bit more life from these cards is still a good decision, hopefully USB 3.1 or 4.0 will get us where we were with the PCI/e.

5 Caps around the DSP on the 1010 PCI card are all Jamicon, 3x100uf 16v and two 47uf 16v.

To be honest, all my tests were mostly done to test the effects on the clock/jitter with the fact that the imaging gets smeared if anything gets recorded with those dsp effects. It is not the case for 1616/M but only 1212m and the 1820/M.

Except the main power cap, all four should be replaced within the specs, the one between the crystals can be 100uf, it does not harm. I tried way bigger and audio grade, they dont work, following the specs is the best way after that first main power cap which is 10x the original value in this case. If you dont get the same caps the result will be different, the amount of caps i tried is crazy and only a few actually make a difference.

For anyone who likes thinkering, here´s a small guide.
For soldering how to, i recommend the internet, and also all is done on your own responsibility, i cannot take any blame for harm to yourself or the equipment, be careful(p.s. use chatgpt for this if you´re new to electronics.


Unfortunately for the tests and recording the loopback i only recorded the file thru the patchmix and it is an official released song, so if anyone is interested in hearing let me know in PM

This can also be usefull on 0404 PCI or even 1616M PCI cards since they all have 100uf or 47uf Jamicon caps.

And the last thing, if you dont wanna order a few caps, it could be sourced from the old motherboards, routers, switched like DLink, tape decks from the shed, some of them have a few audio grade(sort of) caps, i had a luck having a pcb from the broken big old Sony Trinitron TV(and some Intel Skulltrail motherboard) full of panasonics, nichicons, rubycons and ceramics which are a must for filtering the noise. It is really a shame.. saving a few bucks on the important capacitors like this, but considering EMU went down under in that time..

gl

When you say, "the imaging gets smeared if anything gets recorded with those dsp effects. It is not the case for 1616/M but only 1212m and the 1820/M", I assume you're referring to the PatchMix effects built into the audio interface. But are the effects different for the 1212m and the 1820m than the 1616m? I would have assumed E-MU used the same chip for the effects, so I guess you're saying that something else these other two interfaces do is causing the "smearing" of the stereo image.

Also, I'd be interested in hearing what you're talking about. PM sent.

Steve

[Reticular]

Well, the 1616M uses a completely different PCI card design. It has two fewer crystals, for example, and the dock is powered through an external power brick rather than the 4-pin PSU connector — a much simpler design. Also, if you peel off the E-MU DSP sticker from the 1212M or 1820M PCI cards, underneath you'll find the text Audigy 2, which is the same as on my old burnt-up Audigy 2 ZS. So, there may have been some revisions made over time.

The CS4398, which serves as the DAC in these audio docks, is also used in:
Lynx Hilo (loved by mastering engineers)
Crane Song HEDD 192 (loved by mastering engineers)
UAD Apollo
Apogee AD-16X (loved by mastering engineers)
Prism Sound Lyra 2 (loved by mastering engineers)
Prism Sound Orpheus (loved by mastering engineers)
Focusrite RedNet 2
Bryston BDA-1
Korg MR-1000

Part of the circuit traces its roots back to the Sound Blaster series — not even X-Fi — which is more comparable to the 0404 PCI/e. And the upgrade is a real-world improvement without even touching the dock itself. Just by addressing the power going into the DSP and clocking sections, you get a noticeable step up, and come closer to the higher class gear.

The stack i tried in various combinations..

https://imgur.com/a/BV5zmJx

I´ve recorded 3 copyright free tracks ren from youtube @720p, the mp3 files are not ofcorse the best for fidelity but if one can hear the difference even here than it might be a good option to go for this small cap mod route, so recorded thru the patchmix into a daw 32bit
/watch?v=S8O1pvp-gWw
/watch?v=G_LeTJhjMR8
/watch?v=81ewdeBpnjo (1min 30sec only)
https://voca.ro/1fshYEgjPS5y
https://voca.ro/1huXQr12XSxA
https://voca.ro/17k5Nih8tcGK

So ofcorse the catch is to record them yourself for a minute or two in 32bit routed thru the patchmix, and play side by side. I would recommend DAW and avoiding Windows Media Player or using for exsample Aimp in Wasapi Exclusive mode or directly E-mu Asio mode.
This can show how much noise is poluting the clock and how much it affects the sound quality when using this interface...for me it was an interesting way into circut design but it spooked me when i realised how much of the quality is left on a table.

Anyway, gl with the mod if anyone is brave enough to try it. cheers

[Sweppe]

Thanks for all the hard work making this amazing soundcard compatible with the software and hardware today! I use the 1616m/PCI. I have an issue since a couple of years . When using DOCK Phones/Out 1 I get a slight pan to the left (both rear outputs and in the headphones), and when using DOCK 2 Out, i get the opposite. But DOCK Out 3 works perfectly with both speakers, and stero out/rear, although signal is too low for headphones. Any clues of what the problem is, and if anyone would have a solution I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

[Reticular]

ot

If anyone from EU has 1212M or even 1616M PCMCIA/PCI and wants to get rid of it, pls hit me up in DM.