Real amps vs modelling and plugin amps

[SCL135]

I have tried the Softube Amp Room Marshall suite recently and thought it was great sounding.

[SCL135]

I also purchased the Universal Audio amp sims (Lion, Ruby, Dream and Woodrow) and think they sound great too!

[Naillerz78]

I dropped into my local big guitar store this morning to have a look see. Saw a nice light Gretsch semi hollow w a bigsby and took it into the shop amp room for a test. I noticed the latest modellers set up on the floor so decided to test it through them.

First was the L6 Helix floorboard ,with a L6 ‘Powercab’ . It was all very exciting scrolling through the patches and clicking effects on and off.. so handy for live shows I thought.. saw ‘Essex A30 ‘ oooo sweet Vox tones .

All exciting for about 10-15 minutes. Tried a few other models. Then finally stopped tweaking and scrolling and paid more attention to the actual tone coming out of the speakers.. hmmm.

meh.

It’s still the same old ‘digital’ sound in 2025 as it was in 2015 tbh.
A bit stiff , very “square”, noticeably still digital the distortion.
I grew tired of it all in about 20 mins.

Switched to the Quad Cortex next through a fender Tonemaster . A different flavour ..a bit bassier but the same kinda deal. All the Marshalls were the same feeling just a bit more or less distortion tbh.
The Vox sim was quite different sounding actually vs the Helix strangely.

In the end I thought “this is all a bit of a trick tbh “
Ie the patch says “Vox Ac30 or JTM45 or XYZ” -> my mind associates this name and graphic with the sound out of the speaker..but Is that the sound of those amps tho? Not really ,No. It is just “a” digital sound , just with a different EQ than another patch, more or less distortion and an Amp name put to it on the screen of the processor unit.

If I close my eyes it’s basically the same sound that came out of my Vox Valvetronix amps /fender mustang amps( or whatever) .. 10-15 years ago.
The effects are probably better and more detailed or whatever but the base sound is the same.
Square, harsh, thin, hollow etc. kinda just “fake” and lacking body and overtones.

There’s still a way to go yet with modellers IMHO.

I went next door afterwards and a dude was playing through a little Marshall origin head and a 1x12” cab. It was not my favorite ‘tone ‘ he was playing hard rock /metal licks and it was completely dry no effects… but it had body to it and more pleasing harmonics. My 2c today.

*Some pics attached of the gear at the shop*

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[Naillerz78]

When playing for fun I prefer to use a copy of Sans Amp than any plugin because of the responsiveness. A few years ago, while trying to find a software replacement, I found RS-MET Tool Chain. It is not a guitar processor, of course, but thanks to the good quality of the waveshaper and the EQ and limiter modules, you can create structures similar to real amplifiers with a bit of dynamic phenomena, e.g. by placing a limiter between the "amplifier" stages.

This sounds promising/interesting… do you mean a copy of a Sans Amp pedal .. or software? A sans amp pedal before your interface or?

And re this RS-Met Tool Chain software, does it require a lot of know how ? Sounds complex,

Amp sims are a bit of a let down hey. I’m still using the older ones but, NAM and Tonex I haven’t moved to yet tbh. But given what I heard coming out of the speakers at the guitar shop today I’m not convinced they that much better than the sims of 10 years ago.

I shared me thoughts with the shop sales guy. His opinion was the Helix sounded “harsh”.
Mine too. In my understanding “harsh” = high end sizzle. And that in the past that high end digital fizz and sizzle was due to software aliasing issues. But that aliasing had been addressed and eliminated in sims since then ..is that correct or??

Is there still aliasing issues in these newer modellers in 2025?

The sales dude also reckoned the Fender mustang floorboard (GT?) was the “new better tech” vs the Helix and Quad Cortex. Dunno bout that.

[tapper mike]

I think we all like what we like based on assumptions. Once you decide what you like you can find things to dislike about competitors.

Decades ago I had a jamming buddy who would always bring a new pedal to the party. He'd play it then we'd play it and yeah it wound sound good but he loved and worshiped it till next month when he found something new. I was a straight into the amp and three settings for eq/gain. Eventually I started chasing tone trying to find the perfect sound via any and every method possible. I played less as I was too busy dialing tones.

These days I'll go through my "famous sounds" once. Pat myself on the back for playing a cover and within a half hour just setting in on one clean tone for the day.

[multree]

nowadays I write most songs with the electric guitar unplugged. I use the amps in the room for noodling and practice. but for recording I go straight into the interface and use TONEX captures I took of my own gear. This gives me the freedom of mostly sounding like playing through my own stuff with the benefit of switching out the sounds after the fact.

[pekbro]

I prefer real amps mostly, but most times it's easier to just skip the setup and use sims. Setup Amp, loadbox, pedals etc vs choose plugin. My amp doesn't even have a headphone output, so volume is an issue too.

I've quit using IK stuff, so no tonex either...

[Naillerz78]

Yeah I defs get they are perfect for recording and definitely sound close enough to the real thing for that. And a lifesaver (and back -saver) for guitarists who gig.

I read on some thread here even massive bands like Metallica are using them live now for all the guitar sounds. (AxeFx?)

I was just quite surprised at the sound in the room via a cab. Being still noticeably .. ‘digital ‘ I guess.
I thought the newer modelling units had come further these days.

It’s like both units had a more limited “bandwidth “ of sound when it exited the speaker or something. (?) Hard to describe.. but I’m wondering if that’s an actual measureable thing in audio physics terms. It must be.

Like digital maybe puts out X frequencies in a 10hz to 10Khz range whereas a tube amp has more frequencies in a broader range maybe (or some such )?

There is definitely more pleasing harmonics coming out of a good tube amp that add “body” to the sound.
I read that somewhere in an audio analysis of tube vs transistor amps re the distortion qualities.

tube = even order harmonics =“warm” +”body”
Vs.
transistor/digital =odd order harmonics=“harsh”+”thin”

That’s a fact (afaik)

Maybe live , with a whole band playing and amped through a PA system and mixed by the sound guy it doesn’t matter as there’s so much going on with all the instruments.

But side by side it’s still clear as day the difference in sound to me.

[Naillerz78]

nowadays I write most songs with the electric guitar unplugged. I use the amps in the room for noodling and practice. but for recording I go straight into the interface and use TONEX captures I took of my own gear. This gives me the freedom of mostly sounding like playing through my own stuff with the benefit of switching out the sounds after the fact.

That’s an interesting approach. Cool.
Very handy to have all the captures.

I should caveat all my opinions with the following;
Do I write songs ? No
Do I record songs or music ? No (But I do record riffs n medleys and bits of covers most days)
Do I currently gig in a band ? Also No

But I have owned and played a LOT of gear over decades.
Also during Covid I bought and sold a lot of guitars. based on testing them all through amp sims . Which was a big mistake. It wasn’t the guitars fault haha. So I’m annoyed w sims for that reason also.
It incorrectly presumed it was the guitar that was uninspiring . But twas the sound of the sims.
I think I ran through about 10 guitars during Covid maybe more.
And I let my nicest old fender Nashville Tele go that was my biggest mistake . F.U. Sims !

[Naillerz78]

DP

[glokraw]

There is a huge lack of uniformity, when it comes to comparing gear, sounds, and instruments.
There is a vast range of results possible in each of those categories. It takes time to learn the digital and analog solutions to what one considers digital or analog 'problems'. But solutions exist. To assume uniformity of listening devices, including the human ears, is another layer. As are the spaces in which things are heard, including the huge range of headphone gear and monitors. Mastering the capabilities of ones tools, however limited or amazing they may be, is more important than opinions about tools one does not own, and can only test within many limitations. And that's all before modern software is introduced in the discussion. Becoming a better player, and maximizing what you have available, is crucial to achieving ones desired results.
Mi dos centavos





Blanket statements

[Uncle E]

I am not hunched over a laptop anymore , I can relax back on my couch. I play on the clean channel and stop cycling through options and just enjoy the clean sound through the desired pickup. I’m reminded of certain songs and licks .. I play for longer, I chill out and get into a “flow” state. Into “ The Zone”. The music space. The 10” speaker has more dynamic range of soft and loud it reacts more and I enjoy the whole experience a lot more. Basically I get carried away more I get into a dreamy flow state .. I get imagery in my head (as I’m not staring at a GUI on a screen) and can focus more on the music and not the “tonez”.
I can fall into that state for 1-3 hours and on the other side I’m relaxed and happy.

It’s always just the “tonez” and “tone chasing “ w sims. The next hit of dopamine. It’s like eating a big bag of different coloured jelly beans or something.

Plug a UAFX pedal into your H&K's effects return. If you like classic tube amp sounds, you'll get more of that than from the H&K's own preamp, and the UAFX pedals are simple enough that you won't get lost tone chasing. It's the same as using an amp and a boost pedal at that point.

[Winstontaneous]

Your playing is affected by the response and vice versa.

While I disagree a lot with Frank Zappa... One time Steve Vai asked Zappa what he thought of Vai's tone.
Zappa's reply was
"Your tone sounds like an electric ham sandwich"

I'm guessing that's preferable to the "sealed tuna sandwich" referenced in 200 Motels?!

I've had a number of tube and traditional (non-modeling) solid state amps over the years. But my digital Yamaha THR10 modeling amp sounds better than all of them for low-volume home use. It probably helps that Allan Holdsworth, the guy from Kings X and other top players were involved in the development of the original Yamaha modeling tech. I'm not a fan of the Line 6 or Boss modelers I've used. While they were not the most current versions, neither is the Yamaha.

[Naillerz78]

I've had a number of tube and traditional (non-modeling) solid state amps over the years. But my digital Yamaha THR10 modeling amp sounds better than all of them for low-volume home use. It probably helps that Allan Holdsworth, the guy from Kings X and other top players were involved in the development of the original Yamaha modeling tech. I'm not a fan of the Line 6 or Boss modelers I've used. While they were not the most current versions, neither is the Yamaha.

I’ve read good things about the lil THR desktop amps. It’s on my ‘must demo this’ list. Curious what is it about the amp that you like /makes it better ..?
I had a microcube for many years it was my go to at home. I learned so much about creating tones for different genres with the Fx in that lil box of awesomeness

[zerocrossing]

Your playing is affected by the response and vice versa.

While I disagree a lot with Frank Zappa... One time Steve Vai asked Zappa what he thought of Vai's tone.
Zappa's reply was
"Your tone sounds like an electric ham sandwich"

I'm guessing that's preferable to the "sealed tuna sandwich" referenced in 200 Motels?!

I've had a number of tube and traditional (non-modeling) solid state amps over the years. But my digital Yamaha THR10 modeling amp sounds better than all of them for low-volume home use. It probably helps that Allan Holdsworth, the guy from Kings X and other top players were involved in the development of the original Yamaha modeling tech. I'm not a fan of the Line 6 or Boss modelers I've used. While they were not the most current versions, neither is the Yamaha.

I've not really had any experience with modern Boss modelers, but Line 6 has come a long way from their older POD stuff. I'd put the Helix stuff up there with anything, and that's coming from someone who hated their older modeling gear. I tried the original red bean, Line 6 Vetta Combo 2x12 that Trent Reznor was supposed to have used, and some Spider variant. Garbage, especially the Line 6 Vetta. So boomy and muddy.

Then, years later, when I was listening to a blind comparison between real and modeled amps, I picked out the Helix as my favorite... over the actual amp, it turns out. Several times during my research, I found I liked the sound of the Helix a lot. I mostly use Amplitube and/or Tonex these days, but I also bought a HX Stomp XL, which came with a free copy of Helix Native. I put both up against the AxeFX mk3 I had, and I found that I was consistently picking the Line 6 or Amplitube models over the Fractal. Surprised me, honestly. The only thing I don't like about the Helix Native software is that it doesn't have a room emulation, like Amplitube does. Amplitube's room emulation sounds fantastic, and at this point it's the only reverb I use in it.