Software vs. Analog in 2025 – Has the Balance Shifted?

[_leras]

Darn it - enjoying listening to a bunch of great sounding hardware synths.

Here's a selection of them that I found great. What a great time for synths. So many new ones and so many resources and demos easily accessible. Incredible.

dreadbox artemis


Oberheim Teo 5


Behringer Cat


dreadbox typhon


buchla 208C


Vermona Perfourmer


Korg Poly 61


Vermona 14


Roland Jupiter 6


Studio Electronics SE-3X


Novation Summit

[_leras]

Again since you keep on saying that please define how we measure "Life". You say it doesn't have the life that the hardware has so you must be measuring that with something and if so what

'please define how we measure "Life"'

I'm really very sorry if you can't hear the differences and enjoy these for what they are.

[IvyBirds]

Again since you keep on saying that please define how we measure "Life". You say it doesn't have the life that the hardware has so you must be measuring that with something and if so what

'please define how we measure "Life"'

I'm really very sorry if you can't hear the differences and enjoy these for what they are.

What differences am I supposed to hear and how do I measure it?

And yes you keep on saying inanimate objects have life so how are you measuring it?

[IvyBirds]

Darn it - enjoying listening to a bunch of great sounding hardware synths.

Here's a selection of them that I found great.

And there it is, they are supposedly better because you say so, yet you can't measure or define why you think so.

But by all means continue to post random videos and embarrass yourself.

And yes they do sound good, but so does software

[ROTMetro]

You can see old boy loves it/dies a little inside when he talks about making patches on this piece of hardware (jump to 5:26 if it doesn't auto go there). For me I'd rather have recall. I can't imagine spending 2 days making a patch that I can't save:

[zerocrossing]

It would be helpful to the discussion if you were to suggest a software synth that you believe is the equivalent of the Leipzig 3. And maybe put a short clip that shows off its similar capabilities. For me Leipzig sort of bought to mind "Voltage" in Halion 7, but on testing that sounds a bit flat in comparison. And of course there is always the problem of latency using computers.

It's two VCOs and a sub-osc driving a ladder filter with VCAs that can be overdriven. You should be able to setup an approximation of that in Diva without a level of effort that would prevent anyone who is interested from trying. Envelopes are ADSR, so the Mini EGs won't work, and that might be a bone of contention, but, you should be able to choose the Mini EG for a bass sound that gets you in the same neighborhood.

We need to leave Diva out of this conversation for several reasons.

Diva is old. It was made to offer 16 voices of analog emulation that would comfortably run on an average computer of the time. Shortcuts were made to make it possible.

Diva is not a 1:1 emulation of anything, but instead a series of components that could be mixed and matched that were inspired by classic synthesizers. Urs has mentioned that parameter ranges were changed to allow this to work.

Lastly, Urs has mentioned that he made changes to modules based on his own aesthetics, when he felt it would be better, at the expense of accuracy.

Don’t get me wrong. Diva is fantastic at many things, but doesn’t hold up to being pushed. If you want a lush, detuned PWM pad, it’s excellent, and has a lot of features that classic synths don’t.

If you want to make comparisons with your analog hardware, look at:

"I" don't. I truly do think that this is a fool's errand. That said, if you can't get at least close with Diva then it might not be the synths. I recommended it because it should take you a few minutes to get the right modules in place and a bit longer to get a patch. If you want to spend more time you could, as you say, use Softube, or even Reaktor Blocks.

I'm talking about more hard-core stuff. Yeah, if you are making basic Synth Wave music, Diva is great, and what you can do with the modifiers is cool, though I think the UI/UX of that aspect is terrible. (I'm modifying... add?) I'm talking about getting good results in filter FM, oscillator sync, etc.

[zerocrossing]

Again since you keep on saying that please define how we measure "Life". You say it doesn't have the life that the hardware has so you must be measuring that with something and if so what

'please define how we measure "Life"'

I'm really very sorry if you can't hear the differences and enjoy these for what they are.

What differences am I supposed to hear and how do I measure it?

And yes you keep on saying inanimate objects have life so how are you measuring it?

We get what you're getting at. It's like "warmth," or "electricity." It's just a nonsensical term to skirt the lack of measurable phenomena.

[_leras]

And there it is, they are supposedly better because you say so, yet you can't measure or define why you think so.

But by all means continue to post random videos and embarrass yourself.

And yes they do sound good, but so does software

You absolute muppet - do you even like synthesizers?!! I've even posted exact moments times for some of the examples that software can't do to help you dial in. You clearly didn't take the time to listen. I was just enjoying listening to those last synth demos so I shared. These were definitely not posted just for you - you're clearly deaf as a post and not that special!!

Many of the sounds in these demos clearly have more presence, better and richer noise sources, more direct attack sounds at times, and clearly filters and resonance are often a cut above. And some of them are just more alive sounding. It's clear to me just from listening.

Most of the software examples posted in this thread are clearly flatter and have less life in comparison. Not a single VST to same model analog has matched very well, and thats even for VSTs I like and have used a lot. btw have you even posted an example that you think sounds as good? No...

Anyway, I'm not here to be your coach in attentive listening and auditory comprehension. If you can't hear the (quite obvious) difference it's your loss. Many of these synth demos are just glorious!

[Gamma-UT]

Dude, the Poly-61, the Jupiter-6 and the Vermona can't make those sounds - at least not directly. Even if you can't hear the added delay and reverb plus other work, did you not even check the text below? "All processing in Ableton Live."

However, I believe he will sell you the unprocessed stems via Payhip if you want to jizz yourself with those.

But I have to warn you, once you scrape the processing off, the Poly-61 doesn't sound nearly so gleaming, though it has its quirky attractions.

I didn't check them all but I think the only vaguely honest one in there was the Studio Electronics demo. For that, I would suggest liberal application of feedback and/or filter overdrive in a softsynth that has one or both of those things.

[HAL76]

Darn it - enjoying listening to a bunch of great sounding hardware synths.

Here's a selection of them that I found great. What a great time for synths. So many new ones and so many resources and demos easily accessible. Incredible.

Studio Electronics SE-3X

I lately feell in Love with the OMEGA 2 I have switched against my OB-6. The price I payed was not the best, but despite of that only ~50 pieces of this unit have been built the results I achieve with it were totally worth it.

>7.5k + VAT for a Code 8 is ridiculous anyway

[noiseboyuk]

Just clicking on this thread for the first time on p37.

Looks to be going pretty much exactly how I thought it would be going.

Carry on, everyone...

[kraster]

And there it is, they are supposedly better because you say so, yet you can't measure or define why you think so.

But by all means continue to post random videos and embarrass yourself.

And yes they do sound good, but so does software

You absolute muppet - do you even like synthesizers?!! I've even posted exact moments times for some of the examples that software can't do to help you dial in. You clearly didn't take the time to listen. I was just enjoying listening to those last synth demos so I shared. These were definitely not posted just for you - you're clearly deaf as a post and not that special!!

Many of the sounds in these demos clearly have more presence, better and richer noise sources, more direct attack sounds at times, and clearly filters and resonance are often a cut above. And some of them are just more alive sounding. It's clear to me just from listening.

Most of the software examples posted in this thread are clearly flatter and have less life in comparison. Not a single VST to same model analog has matched very well, and thats even for VSTs I like and have used a lot. btw have you even posted an example that you think sounds as good? No...

Anyway, I'm not here to be your coach in attentive listening and auditory comprehension. If you can't hear the (quite obvious) difference it's your loss. Many of these synth demos are just glorious!

I can guarantee you if a bunch of hardware and software synths were posted side by side but you only had the audio you wouldn't be able to tell them apart reliably.

I think sonically software can get so close to hardware that it's a pointless exercise trying to defend that difference.

With older analog synths there's often huge differences between different synths of the same model so there isn't even a particular standard there.

I think where hardware shines is bespoke workflows, knob per function and overall tactility that can be a more enjoyable, inspirational experience.

But insisting that it's "obvious" that certain synths sound better is a bit OTT.

Starsky Carr does some great side by sides and there's precious little difference and any difference there is is usually down to a knob or slider being slightly different.

In the examples you've given a lot of these synths are presented to maximise their appeal with post processing. In my experience a lot of raw analogue synths can actually sound quite rubbish before you add the sauce.

My first encounter with a real CS80 was a crushing disappointment. I was expecting Blade Runner and I got a bee in a bottle. Added some reverb and delay and it started to sing.

[IvyBirds]

You absolute muppet - do you even like synthesizers?!!

I love Synthesizers

I've even posted exact moments times for some of the examples that software can't do to help you dial in.

Again I ask what can't software do? You posted a bunch of random YouTube videos that are pointless because they are not the pure raw sound, and declared something to be true. It's rather pathetic

You clearly didn't take the time to listen. I was just enjoying listening to those last synth demos so I shared.

Only again that's not true, you posted random videos with effects applied that have been mastered and made a declaration that "see software can't do this"

These were definitely not posted just for you - you're clearly deaf as a post and not that special!!

If they were not meant for me why did you mention me specifically in the post? And I am not deaf at all but thanks for insulting and mocking people with disabilities

Many of the sounds in these demos clearly have more presence, better and richer noise sources, more direct attack sounds at times, and clearly filters and resonance are often a cut above.

What does presence mean? Define it in a measurable way? What is "better and richer" define it in a measurable way. What is "cut above" define it in a measurable way

When it comes to those demos we can't make any judgements as to any of those qualities because they all have been processed and mastered.

And some of them are just more alive sounding. It's clear to me just from listening.

All of them are inanimate objects, none of them sound alive, but since you claim they sound "more" of something you must be measuring it so define what that is, and if you can't other than making a declaration it's totally irrelevant

Most of the software examples posted in this thread are clearly flatter and have less life in comparison.

I haven't heard a single example of a software synth in this thread that has tuning issues and is playing flat, if by "flatter" you mean something else other than its musical context awesome, define it in a measurable way, and again they are all inanimate objects they don't have life, but if you mean something else, awesome then explain how we can define and measure it

Not a single VST to same model analog has matched very well

Matched what? Again to match something we must be able to define and measure something, something you have not done. What you have done is post random videos that had EQ, Compression, Reverb, Delay, and mastering applied. Then talk about undefined terms like "presence" and "life" which could be just as easily a result of the compressor or mastering or reverb. If by matched you mean "sounds exactly the same" even hardware synths that are the same exact model made by the same company will not sound exactly the same and if we are going to be talking about reissues awesome a modern Prophet 5 Reissue sounds different than a 1983 Prophet 5 yet they are both hardware.

and thats even for VSTs I like and have used a lot. btw have you even posted an example that you think sounds as good?

As good as what? Many videos have been posted in this thread of software and hardware companions that sound as good as each other. Zerocrossing has posted a bunch, what would be the point in posting more? Shall I post demo videos of HALion7, Falcon, DIVA, Repro, Omnisphere, PhasePlant, Serum 2, Zebra 2, Kontact, etc that are full of sounds that can't be made with hardware synths? What would be the point?

Anyway, I'm not here to be your coach in attentive listening and auditory comprehension. If you can't hear the (quite obvious) difference it's your loss. Many of these synth demos are just glorious!

What I am not hearing? Why can't you define it?

[pdxindy]

I can guarantee you if a bunch of hardware and software synths were posted side by side but you only had the audio you wouldn't be able to tell them apart reliably.

I think sonically software can get so close to hardware that it's a pointless exercise trying to defend that difference.

Modular hardware (Eurorack in my case) has a presence and clarity in the sound that software doesn't replicate. And generally, audio rate modulations and distortion in analog is still not equaled in software. The differences are easy to hear.

Whether that matters to each individual is another story. That level of sound quality matters to me, but so does the flexibility and ease of use of software. I'm glad to have both on hand.

[machinesworking]

How many people have their synth(s) placed perfectly for ergonomics? Reaching and straining muscles and sitting or standing on awkward positions is also an issue. So is holding and turning little knobs. All of that is an ergonomics issue - possibly as much or more than using a mouse, which is pretty easy to use in a more ergonomic manner. Sorry, but I think this whole line of argument lacks a solid foundation and is completely speculative, created to support a viewpoint.

You don't know it but you're making my point. Wrist strain is tied to doing the same things over and over again, not being "inconvenienced" by reaching, tiny knobs etc. You're equating using muscles with repetitive stress injuries and carpel tunnel. Having to reach for something, get up off the chair etc. is not the cause of RSI, mice are.