Software vs. Analog in 2025 – Has the Balance Shifted?

[SoftSynthLover99]

Also, for people who perform live (not me) a hardware synth can be a lot easier and reliable than something with a laptop or tether to something else.

As someone that gigs multiple times a week every week with a laptop who used to gig multiple times a week with hardware that simply is not true anymore

I have now done several hundred gigs with just a laptop and it's been 100% reliable in every way possible

As far as easier if I am playing a band gig we use DANTE for our FOH Mix and in ears. My entire setup is just plug my 3 controllers into a USB hub, then that hub into a laptop, and run a CAT5e cable from my laptop into our stage box

If I am playing a solo gig which is I often do I bring a pair of powers speakers, they are also DANTE so all I need is a CAT5

All my presets and plugins for the entire show are preprogrammed into Gig Performer and I use a MIDI foot controller to switch between presets

I can mix everything on the fly using faders on a MIDI controller.

As someone who has gigged for decades NOTHING has been more reliable or easier to deal with, absolutely nothing

Everything you described can also be done with an iPhone running Logic Pro or GarageBand. Pianoteq 8 works on iOS + tons of great synths and would be very easy to just do gigs with an iPhone, midi controller and interface these days instead of a laptop.

But where do we stop with this "race to the bottom" sort of thinking? Do we disregard sound, performance and real instruments all in favor of convenience? Should doing things the cheapest easiest most convenient way really be the end goal of a musician?

Only it can't , even Apple who makes Logic Pro for its Macs, and makes the iPhone doesn't agree with you which is why they make mainstage

Only someone who doesn't gig and who is totally ignorant to the realities of playing live would think that

And it's hardly a race to the bottom. If I was racing to the bottom and wanted to disregard sound, and performance I would use hardware only, as by using Software I am able to bring with me so many different Synths that can make so many different sounds it would require a semi truck to haul them around and even bands selling out stadiums in 2025 are not doing that.

If I was all hardware which I was for many years, I would have to make compromises as to the sounds I was able to use based on the Synths that I could actually bring to the gig, and that would actually fit on the stage. Gigging with more than 3 keyboards becomes quite the challenge gigging with more than 5 or 6 is impossible. I have the ability to have many dozens of synths in my show and switch between them instantly using a foot controller. Do I need a B3 sound? Awesome bam I have it. Do I need a Prophet 5 sound? Step on a trigger and instantly I have it, need to play a Minimoog style lead? Step on a trigger again and I have it l. Do I need to create a split just during the chorus or solo to play a different lead sound than during the bridge or verses? Not a problem. Step on a trigger and make it happen then step on the trigger again and it's right back to what I was using before. Since I care about performance the race to bottom would be using hardware that can't do that

It's hard enough to establish a difference between a "real" Minimoog and a Software one in a treated studio on good monitors when in a mix, now try to do so in a bar, club, theater, arena, outdoor amphitheatre, or stadium where the acoustic will be shit, as will the massive standing waves and other sonic issues large PAs introduce

But again if you had a clue you would know this, which is why you race the bottom and always default to the idea that hardware synths are always going to be the right choice and speak of things you have zero experience with

As for "real" instruments what is that? I can't fit or travel with a Steinway Model D in my car or a Hammond B3 with a Leslie, so I use synths which are synthetic instruments that synthesize those sounds

You can in fact use Logic Pro or GarageBand live as I have done so on multiple occasions in the past. MainStage is nice but Logic can do the same thing that MainStage and Gig Performer can do and more

iOS has some truly great software synths so who needs a laptop these days? Your laptop rig is ancient in comparison to what iPhones can do!

[pekbro]

Why do you guys even argue with this guy, what a tool, totally dismissive of anything anybody else says, from the get go, and always at the center of these stupid threads...

[_leras]

Well according to your previous posts the best way to judge a synth is to post random YouTube videos, where the sound of the synth is drenched in effects because you love the sound of software so much, you need those software based effects to drown out the sound of the raw analog hardware for you to think it sounds good

For people who understand how music production works, we know those videos you posted unless you love the sound of Software as deeply as you do are actually a bad way to judge the sound of the actual synth

Because once you add processing and effects as in the videos you shared you no longer hear the raw sound of the synth itself

You can't judge the "presence" and "life" of a synth when it's been processed as any character is coming from the effects

I've just posted videos of hardware synths where they are making tones that software still can't match. It's the new golden age of hardware synths. There is some amazing stuff out there that sounds incredible.

Everything gets post processing regardless of whether it's a along, acoustic, software. But the tone we start with makes a difference. Why do you think preamps are still important?

I'm definitely not against software, and is also better than ever, and, as I've written in this thread, the balance has long shifted and software IS the sound of modern electronic music. Serum is almost ubiquitous in multiple genres, and Serum 2 will keep it there for quite some time.

Maybe you've lost some hearing, or just can't tell why some thing like that dreadbox Hades sounds good. And I'm really sorry that you can't appreciate the many different synths out there.

Yesterday I was making a track with samples, Serum 2 and UAD Anthem - and with so many FX and post processing you'd probably cry. It sounds great.

Don't be blinkered, blocked eared or close minded. Just try and appreciate everything.

[justin3am]

Only someone who doesn't gig and who is totally ignorant to the realities of playing live would think that

Whats with the arrogance?

It might be fun to have a conversation about performing live with a computer setup, if you weren't turning every discussion into a dick measuring contest.

[pdxindy]

Everything you described can also be done with an iPhone running Logic Pro or GarageBand. Pianoteq 8 works on iOS + tons of great synths and would be very easy to just do gigs with an iPhone, midi controller and interface these days instead of a laptop.

But where do we stop with this "race to the bottom" sort of thinking? Do we disregard sound, performance and real instruments all in favor of convenience? Should doing things the cheapest easiest most convenient way really be the end goal of a musician?

Who'd want to go see their favorite artist perform live if you knew they couldn't give two shits about the way the music sounded?

I have no problem if someone did a gig using their iPhone/iPad and Logic and midi controller... if I liked what they did. I don't care about the tools used as such, just whether those tools provide the means of creativity expressing itself.

Generally, the more technically complex, the more energy is pulled into the thinking/intellectual brain and the less that goes to something more intuitive and right brained.

Fortunately, real instruments are still what most musicians play. Guitars, basses, drums, flutes, violins, their voice, etc., etc., etc.

Perfect repeatability is not a quality I aspire to. One of my favorite musical pieces is "Maiysha" (Miles Davis - early 1970's). I have 3 different renditions. Each is recognizable as "Maiysha" but each is compositionally and aesthetically/emotionally quite unique. Of course there was nothing digital and no presets at the time.

Not saying we should go back to that time, but I'd say there are qualities we have misplaced in our modern tech frenzy.

[whassup]

Then we can agree on these: I like Nina too.
And sure you will find somebody who has a different taste than you. Normal.
In German we have this proverb that goes like:
It's all personal preference said the monkey and chews his soap.

My point is a little different, though. A lot of people don’t know the difference between, “I don’t like it,” and, “it sucks.” There are a lot of things that don’t like, but I don’t think they suck. They’re just not for me, and that can be for a wide variety of reasons, from lacking a certain feature that I require, to overlap with something else, to just not sounding in a way that I find interesting.
[/quote]

To the core: This IS my point. Thank you!
In the end this is my whole point regarding this and similar topics.
My taste is not be all end all.
Same goes the other way round.

[ghettosynth]

This doesn't make the case that one should not spend time finding the right tone for a recording. That was certainly the case then and it's still the case now.

So, you might not be aware of the humongous amount of default synthesizer presets that winded up, completely unchanged, on as many hit records and albums.

No, of course I am, what's your point? That sometimes, especially when a synthesizer is new, e.g., D50, DX7, M1, CMS, Synclavier, P5, that people want to use the interesting sounds that are in the synth? Of course they do. Those sounds, however, are by definition, possible with the technology of the time. Moreover, selecting those sounds is a part of that process as opposed to selecting an impersonator. Why did many bands opt for the CMS instead of the Mirage? Well, because the Mirage was a poor approximation of the CMS in most contexts. That doesn't mean the Mirage didn't get used where it's limitations mattered, or, costs in some sense drove the choice.

If you want to understand this in terms of how the process of choosing sounds did matter then highlight the records of the early 80s where a synthesized piano was chosen over an actual piano. That is the reasonable comparison to make where virtually nobody thought that synthesized pianos were a reasonable choice outside of the contexts where they were chosen precisely for their particular properties.

In any case, in that moment I was referencing guitar tones specifically, which has a similar rabid argument component. My point was that some, in fact, many, people care about how something sounds. Maybe you don't? Are you happy with a DX7 for analog sounds today? That argument was made at the time you know? That it could create "any sound." A non-truth extrapolated from theory that further research has shown to not pan out in any reasonable number of parameters.

[IvyBirds]

You can in fact use Logic Pro or GarageBand live as I have done so on multiple occasions in the past. MainStage is nice but Logic can do the same thing that MainStage and Gig Performer can do and more

iOS has some truly great software synths so who needs a laptop these days? Your laptop rig is ancient in comparison to what iPhones can do!

Only it's not. Garage Band and Logic are DAWs, their primary function is to be an audio workstation for recording

Mainstage and Gig Performer are designed for live performance and have a ton of features for performance that's DAWs don't have, specifically the ability to manage switching between plugins, and splits

Also ironic the guy who says a laptop rig is ancient, is also saying that hardware synths based on 50 year old technology is the way to go

It's also amazingly ignorant as my laptop blows away the features, power, RAM, and storage of an iPhone, and there has never been a better mire cutting edge way to have lots of timbres on your performance than laptop and Gig Performer and Mainstage

[IvyBirds]

Only someone who doesn't gig and who is totally ignorant to the realities of playing live would think that

Whats with the arrogance?

It might be fun to have a conversation about performing live with a computer setup, if you weren't turning every discussion into a dick measuring contest.

Would love that, so why don't you lecture them person who started the dick measuring contest instead of me? If that's right you want to start a different dock measuring contest

[SoftSynthLover99]

Everything you described can also be done with an iPhone running Logic Pro or GarageBand. Pianoteq 8 works on iOS + tons of great synths and would be very easy to just do gigs with an iPhone, midi controller and interface these days instead of a laptop.

But where do we stop with this "race to the bottom" sort of thinking? Do we disregard sound, performance and real instruments all in favor of convenience? Should doing things the cheapest easiest most convenient way really be the end goal of a musician?

Who'd want to go see their favorite artist perform live if you knew they couldn't give two shits about the way the music sounded?

I have no problem if someone did a gig using their iPhone/iPad and Logic and midi controller... if I liked what they did. I don't care about the tools used as such, just whether those tools provide the means of creativity expressing itself.

Generally, the more technically complex, the more energy is pulled into the thinking/intellectual brain and the less that goes to something more intuitive and right brained.

Fortunately, real instruments are still what most musicians play. Guitars, basses, drums, flutes, violins, their voice, etc., etc., etc.

Perfect repeatability is not a quality I aspire to. One of my favorite musical pieces is "Maiysha" (Miles Davis - early 1970's). I have 3 different renditions. Each is recognizable as "Maiysha" but each is compositionally and aesthetically/emotionally quite unique. Of course there was nothing digital and no presets at the time.

Not saying we should go back to that time, but I'd say there are qualities we have misplaced in our modern tech frenzy.

Yeah I agree with you. I would even say the tools we use as musicians influence our creative expression when playing. As a guitar player I know certain amps pedals and effects just make me play and approach the instrument in a different way. And with synthesizers I find that to be true also.

We have definitely misplaced some musical qualities in this current tech (and now AI) frenzy IMO. But I do see a lot of musicians kind of falling in love with the process of actually using synths and guitars and horns etc and looking for that organic feeling to really create something unique to them.

Software and virtual instruments to me are about getting the end result (which is very useful at times). And hardware is about the link between you and the instrument in real time while performing/playing. Idk how to describe it but engaging with a physical instrument does not feel even remotely the same as creating sounds with virtual instruments.

[BazJacuzzi]

Blimmin 'eck, didn't we literally have a 50 page thread on this exact subject last month?

[ROTMetro]

I think we can all agree that for making Youtube videos analog is preferable. It's way easier to make infomercial level slop of expensive, sexy products (and way nicer fatter commissions than on cheap plugins).

For everything else, make music where you are right now.

[SoftSynthLover99]

You can in fact use Logic Pro or GarageBand live as I have done so on multiple occasions in the past. MainStage is nice but Logic can do the same thing that MainStage and Gig Performer can do and more

iOS has some truly great software synths so who needs a laptop these days? Your laptop rig is ancient in comparison to what iPhones can do!

Only it's not. Garage Band and Logic are DAWs, their primary function is to be an audio workstation for recording

The same way a computer with a mouse and keyboard is not really designed to be a hardware synthesizer right?

I'm glad you understand that the primary function and design of something really matters. Because I was being sarcastic to point out that while yes you can use DAWs live like Logic Pro or GarageBand for live use, it really is not the intent and design of the program.

So while yes your computer can play synthesizer sounds and use various plugins to do so (just like I can use Logic Pro to play live shows) it does not replace a hardware synthesizer and is not designed strictly as a musical instrument like a hardware synthesizer or workstation. Glad you and I finally agree on something!

[ghettosynth]

It might be fun to have a conversation about performing live with a computer setup, if you weren't turning every discussion into a dick measuring contest.

5U for the win, obviously.

[IvyBirds]

You can in fact use Logic Pro or GarageBand live as I have done so on multiple occasions in the past. MainStage is nice but Logic can do the same thing that MainStage and Gig Performer can do and more

iOS has some truly great software synths so who needs a laptop these days? Your laptop rig is ancient in comparison to what iPhones can do!

Only it's not. Garage Band and Logic are DAWs, their primary function is to be an audio workstation for recording

The same way a computer with a mouse and keyboard is not really designed to be a hardware synthesizer right?

I'm glad you understand that the primary function and design of something really matters. Because I was being sarcastic to point out that while yes you can use DAWs live like Logic Pro or GarageBand for live use, it really is not the intent and design of the program.

So while yes your computer can play synthesizer sounds and use various plugins to do so (just like I can use Logic Pro to play live shows) it does not replace a hardware synthesizer and is not designed strictly as a musical instrument like a hardware synthesizer or workstation. Glad you and I finally agree on something!

A computer is just a generic device that runs software. If you run synth software it becomes a musical instrument because you can play it and make music

Do you consider this to be a Musical Instrument?

s-l400.jpg

It's a rack unit that needs an external programmer for hands on control, and needs an external keyboard to play notes

I think most people on this forum would consider the MKS-70 to be a musical instrument so why can't a laptop be?

If I run software synths on a rack mounted server that is the same exact form factor is that a musical instrument? And if not why not?