Real amps vs modelling and plugin amps

[Naillerz78]

I actually love doing both. We have a really great guitar room and vintage amps and mics etc, and I’ll dial in a tone and get the”room” and vibe I need for a recording this way but I always bring in a split DI signal for re-amping later both in the box and recorded.
First off you can get great tone on guitar amps just from the mic pres alone. Then your mic selection, spacing, amp room, amp type and settings. But sometimes I may only use a twang tone from the top end of an amp recording and then layer with a sim amp under for the distortion or beef. You can get some amazing tones this way! Plus you can control with fx and switch around pedals easily on the DI sim amp signal.
I say on most projects both is the way to go and decide how much of each. For some truly raw punk rock or vintage sound I may not ever use the sim amp. But 95% of the time I’m using sim amp fx for creative tone and amp as performance.

Re the twang tone from the top end of the amp…
Is this tone not achievable in sims for you or?
Just wondering.
Maybe that’s what I’m hearing is different in amp sims.

There must be some audio analysis somewhere with spectrograms (?) waveform graphs (?) or somesuch, side by side showing the differences between both.

Also, do u use high and low pass filters on both sounds or is that moreso required for sims?
Is there still digital fizz that needs cutting out?

[BlackOctopus_Slade]

I actually love doing both. We have a really great guitar room and vintage amps and mics etc, and I’ll dial in a tone and get the”room” and vibe I need for a recording this way but I always bring in a split DI signal for re-amping later both in the box and recorded.
First off you can get great tone on guitar amps just from the mic pres alone. Then your mic selection, spacing, amp room, amp type and settings. But sometimes I may only use a twang tone from the top end of an amp recording and then layer with a sim amp under for the distortion or beef. You can get some amazing tones this way! Plus you can control with fx and switch around pedals easily on the DI sim amp signal.
I say on most projects both is the way to go and decide how much of each. For some truly raw punk rock or vintage sound I may not ever use the sim amp. But 95% of the time I’m using sim amp fx for creative tone and amp as performance.

Re the twang tone from the top end of the amp…
Is this tone not achievable in sims for you or?
Just wondering.
Maybe that’s what I’m hearing is different in amp sims.

There must be some audio analysis somewhere with spectrograms (?) waveform graphs (?) or somesuch, side by side showing the differences between both.

Also, do u use high and low pass filters on both sounds or is that moreso required for sims?
Is there still digital fizz that needs cutting out?

I tend to find more control with the real world amps especially with amps like VOX ACs or Fender reverbs. I find the digital emulations to be too bright and digital in that top end most of the time. But I am certain they can be hard to tell apart with the right tweaks and such. Like MP3 vs Wav debates or analog vs digital compressors or eq etc. And the digital tends to do better with noise walls, heavier digital mid range fx (distortions and reverbs added) for layering vs real world amps. Real world amps tend to also give more depth. A good example of phase issues is GTR plugin. It is horrible for phase compared to having phase control on the real world mic placement and selection too. So this can easily give you more depth with the amp vs sim. But the phase issues is a whole other conversation with digital vs real world. But that room and true amp recording gives something special for the sound stage.

[Naillerz78]

I tend to find more control with the real world amps especially with amps like VOX ACs or Fender reverbs. I find the digital emulations to be too bright and digital in that top end most of the time. But I am certain they can be hard to tell apart with the right tweaks and such. Like MP3 vs Wav debates or analog vs digital compressors or eq etc. And the digital tends to do better with noise walls, heavier digital mid range fx (distortions and reverbs added) for layering vs real world amps. Real world amps tend to also give more depth. A good example of phase issues is GTR plugin. It is horrible for phase compared to having phase control on the real world mic placement and selection too. So this can easily give you more depth with the amp vs sim. But the phase issues is a whole other conversation with digital vs real world. But that room and true amp recording gives something special for the sound stage.

Cool thanks for the info.
Yeah that’s what bothers me in sims, the top end. I just read a discussion on another forum where a guy is testing Tonex for aliasing w the sine wave test and finding its there nowadays, “da Fizz.”
Contrary to the claims of “no aliasing whatsoever” re the product.

Waves GTR? Oh true. I boot that up now and again to compare it to the newer ones. It has a lot of ‘fun’ factor for practice. I don’t know much about phase tbh. Except I read somewhere that humbucker pickups may have some phase issues be design (?). May be why I struggle with them also perhaps.

Also re Vox. What’s the latest and greatest Vox sim ? That seemed to be a hard one for sims to nail down. Nembrinis was the last one I tried it was pretty good. BlueCats Axiom is also quite good for dem retro tones. I can’t remember which one Kuassa’s is ..the Lancaster model maybe.

There was another one that used different tech for modelling that required massive cpu power (Nautica?/Aquarius?). They had one also that sounded pretty great in the demos.

[Naillerz78]

My question is - is there still aliasing and fizz present in the sound of high end modellers like Helix and QC in 2025? Cos I’m sure I heard the same harshness testing them last week.

Tonex and UAFX pedals don’t have it.

I've also not noticed aliasing on Tonex, or Amplitube, unless you feed it a signal that's over the range of a guitar, (like C6 or higher) which I guess you might do if you want to feed other instruments into it. Helix Native is a bit better in this regard, but if you're just using guitars, you'll be fine.

Any harshness must be coming from something else. Check your input levels. Not just your audio interface's levels, but the level going into the modeler. For instance, depending on the model, I need to feed Amplitube -7 or -14 db to get good results, but I'm feeding the interface a pretty hot signal. Just a bit less than clipping if I hit a chord really hard.

It’s still there dude



Same as before-



Maybe some folks have more of a sensitivity to it.. or it’s more present in distorted tones vs cleans or something.

That really annoys me about Amplitube re the input gain tweaking required.
I mean it was designed and tested by audio engineers (I would presume) with various guitars. Why is this even a thing that the users needed to discover. Its a fundamental.
The software ought to auto-calibrate based on the signal in to give the optimal result.
Ffs even the old old EXE amp sims had a “learn” button(!)

[YnJ]

I recently also got a Boss GL-100 preamp, considered to be an early modelling amp. It's solid state and has settings which are described as generic types of amps. It sounds like it's own thing though, and I really like it.

Sounds great! There’s a nice crispness to it

The YouTube video dosn't really do it justice. It's a really nice piece of gear with a lot of sonic versatility, especially with a dirt pedal in front of it. It responds really well to any dynamic pedals

I got my Yamaha DG1000. I like it, it doesn't sound like any other digital amp I've tried, or have any of the issues normally found with digital amps. This sort of gets this back on topic, as I noticed that it doesn't respond nearly as well to dirt pedals in front of it as the Boss preamp does. Perhaps it will respond better to a digital effect pedal?

[Naillerz78]

Goddang my head hurts trying to understand all this I’ll be honest.

[BertKoor]

I got my Yamaha DG1000. I like it, it doesn't sound like any other digital amp I've tried, or have any of the issues normally found with digital amps. This sort of gets this back on topic, as I noticed that it doesn't respond nearly as well to dirt pedals in front of it as the Boss preamp does. Perhaps it will respond better to a digital effect pedal?

And what if you chain [DirtPedal] -> [BossGL100] -> [YamDG1000] ?

I'm not so sure I understand what you mean by 'responds', but I doubt analog or digital makes the difference. Maybe it's a level thing, how they handle signals going above the clipping point. Both analog and digital will clip, but in different ways.

[Magic Russ]

Not all digital devices have the same amount of headroom. I can put any of my dirt boxes in front of my Katana or Boss floorboards and not have a problem. On the other hand, I also have one of those Vox busker amps and anything over unity gain will make it clip unpleasantly. If I remember right, I had the same problem with my J-Station.

[glokraw]

Amplitube 4 - nope. I revisited some discussions n tips online re the input gain needing to be tweaked a lot and lots of messing w Cabs and IRs required. Cbf. Uninstalled.

I like IK's 'Fulltone Collection' (distortion, chorus, and delay, maybe distortion unit is too loud by default?) Covers most of what I like, maybe you could test it via Custom Shop? I'll try the Kuassa soon, I hope.
Cheers

[Naillerz78]

Amplitube 4 - nope. I revisited some discussions n tips online re the input gain needing to be tweaked a lot and lots of messing w Cabs and IRs required. Cbf. Uninstalled.

I like IK's 'Fulltone Collection' (distortion, chorus, and delay, maybe distortion unit is too loud by default?) Covers most of what I like, maybe you could test it via Custom Shop? I'll try the Kuassa soon, I hope.
Cheers

Thanks il give Fulltone a whirl then also.

I’m gonna try NAM next I reckon.

Re Kuassa - after playing it and testing for a few hours I find does have a decent quantity of fizz like the others. Unfortunately. It can be dialed down with oversampling options in the amps and effects though.. but still there a bit. I like the Vermillion and Matchlock amps. That’d be older “vintage” 60s tones my preference I guess.

It’s weird how my mind changes with these sims over a few hours .
I think it’s the effects I like initially. That ear candy wow factor. Then later I can hear the fizz and other unsatisfying things

Guitar Rig 6 sounds very ‘fat’ and ‘wider’ in comparison to some of the others like Amplitube THU & Kuassa. (IMHO) when it’s working. Must google if I can fix the cpu overload issue im having.

[YnJ]

I'm not so sure I understand what you mean by 'responds', but I doubt analog or digital makes the difference. Maybe it's a level thing, how they handle signals going above the clipping point. Both analog and digital will clip, but in different ways.

I have no idea what is going on in technical terms, I can only tell what I hear. When I say responds I mean how much of the effect from the dirt pedal is coming through. Firstly, when I use a dirt pedal in front of the Boss preamp I only need a small amount of gain from the both the amp and the pedal to get a high amount of gain with the amp and pedal combined. To get the same amount of gain on the Yamaha preamp I need to turn up the gain a lot on both the amp and the pedal. Secondly, when using the Boss preamp the character of the dirt pedal is very prominent, while using the Yamaha preamp I can hardly tell the difference between the sound without the pedal and with the pedal. I get more gain and sustain, the sound of the amp stays pretty much the same

[YnJ]

Not all digital devices have the same amount of headroom. I can put any of my dirt boxes in front of my Katana or Boss floorboards and not have a problem. On the other hand, I also have one of those Vox busker amps and anything over unity gain will make it clip unpleasantly. If I remember right, I had the same problem with my J-Station.

That might be the issue. It doesn't really matter that much though, I can play around with pedals using the Boss GL-100, the main reason to use the Yamaha DG1000 is the distinct sound that amp has

[Naillerz78]

Really liking this guys explanations of what’s going on with sims.

[Naillerz78]

Also went back to the guitar shop today and picked out a Jet HSS guitar to try some more digi gear. 1st was the Yamaha TH desktop amp..yeah nah.not for me.

Then a Bias Spark 2.. wow! Massive sound for such a small combo. Lovely spatial effects really filled up the room. Packs a powerful punch that one. Planning to give it a big spin again at the weekend .

[Mister Natural]

https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/cloudch ... ap-garden/