State of the art Audio to MIDI tempo mapping?

[D2sX9ek8w3]

Hi,
I am wondering what the current best options are for creating a MIDI tempo map from an audio track.

I am very interested in studying tempo changes, and applying what I learn to MIDI music I compose abstractly in a MIDI editor or staff view.

Recently, I have been experimenting with extracting bass lines from well-known songs and manually tempo-mapping them.

It has been a few years since I looked at automated solutions.

The new AI-based audio splitters have created a new opportunity to extract tracks, such as bass or drums, so I am thinking it might be time to revisit automated Audio to MIDI tempo mapping again.

I don't get out much, so I'm unaware of the current options. Can you suggest some of the latest options?

Thank you!

[D2sX9ek8w3]

Here is an example of a workflow I tried this morning.

I have a "cover song" version of an old standard that I wrote out in MIDI using REAPER. The song is "My Funny Valentine".

I have the song voiced in MIDI, but everything is loosely quantized to a consistent tempo, so it sounds "like MIDI".

This morning, I uploaded an audio track of Miles Davis's My Funny Valentine to the Moises AI web app. It extracted the tracks into some stems. I made a copy of the bass track on my local PC.

I trimmed the length of the audio bass track and imported it into an ancient copy of Cubase 10 I have licensed on my DAW.

I ran a tempo detection with Cubase and made a tempo track.

I added a dummy MIDI track to the Cubase project so I could export a MIDI clip with the tempo baked in.

I opened REAPER and loaded a copy of "My Funny Valentine". I set the Edit cursor to match the Cubase MIDI clip start time. I adjusted the static tempo rate to approximate the average of the extracted tempo rates, which is 64 bpm.

I inserted the Cubase MIDI clip into REAPER and opted to include the tempo map.

REAPER imported the tempo map and dummy MIDI clip and conformed all my existing MIDI to the new tempo.

The result was that the static timing of my interpretation of the song immediately felt more lifelike with an ebb and flow of timing.

The tempo range is very narrow, but the feel is significant.

This was the first time I have done this.

I am usually trying to add flavor to original compositions and am still figuring out good ways to do that.

I would like a less cumbersome workflow than going through Cubase, and I hope there may be a standalone app that can automatically detect tempo and output a MIDI clip.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.

[crimsonwarlock]

The result was that the static timing of my interpretation of the song immediately felt more lifelike with an ebb and flow of timing.

I think you are confusing tempo with groove. Many DAWs have specific functionality to extract a groove from another track and use that for your own track.

Which DAW do you use?

[D2sX9ek8w3]

Primarily REAPER, but have old licenses for Pro Tools, Cubase, SONAR, Studio One as well. I no longer keep the other DAWs up to date.

[crimsonwarlock]

I used Reaper for over a decade, but moved away (see my sig), so I don't know if Reaper currently has something for groove detection. But knowing how deep Reaper is, it probably has (check the manual) or there is a scripts somewhere that'll do it.

I'm also pretty sure that Cubase and Studio One can do it, but maybe not older versions. Reason can do it (what I use), and Ableton Live has functionality for it.

[No_Use]

I'm sometimes having a similar workflow.
Though I'm not aware of any non-DAW app that does auto-tempo mapping and spit out a MIDI clip (apart from Melodyne), would be nice indeed.

[D2sX9ek8w3]

I think you are confusing tempo with groove.

I am asking about tempo mapping.

If I recall correctly, Groove clips shift MIDI events slightly off the grid to impart a sense of feel, but the grid remains static and regimented.

My question is specific to altering tempo to impart ebb and flow.

In the past, I have started projects by recording a singer-songwriter performance with an acoustic guitar or piano as a guide track and then hand-editing a tempo map to base a project upon. That works well, but it is a lot of work that occurs right when everyone would rather get started having fun.

Recently, I have been composing in the abstract within the MIDI editor, hoping for some inspiration to tailor the tempo appropriately. Still, effective decisions of that nature, at least for me, only happen in the sublime, and when performing music with a hands-on instrument, so my attempts to make the grid seem expressive have been falling short.

I anticipate a future where an AI helper might analyze your original composition and alter the tempo based on a language model of past musical performances.

In the meantime, advances in automated tempo detection and melody recognition appear to be a stepping stone technology that needs to fully mature.

My experience with Cubase yesterday impressed me. I had not used that feature enough in the past, and had never tried exporting the MIDI to transfer just the tempo to another DAW. I will try Melodyne today.

Thank you.

[Hewitt Huntwork]

There are YouTube videos about how to do this with Melodyne in Studio One.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Melodyne was already mentioned but shouldn't be ignored. It has terrific tempo detection capabilities. And it works in Reaper!

You can do a workflow where it's as simple as:

1. Have your audio track in Reaper with a free-form tempo
2. Insert Melodyne as a take FX
3. Let Meldoyne do it's analysis (you may need to make little adjustments/edits but it's typically quite good)
4. From the "+" menu in the FX Window, locate "ARA: Import Into Project"
5. Select either "Tempo" or "Tempo, time signatures and measure grid*"

Result: your tempo is now automatically mapped in Reaper.

I see a ton of "Reaper Tempo Editing" videos showing you the native ways to do it with tempo markers, but honestly, Meldoyne is many factors faster and worth the price. I don't know where there are few to no videos on using Melodyne Tempo Mapping in Reaper, other than, maybe it's too fast and easy? Or maybe Reaper users don't typically spring for Melodyne and prefer to do things the hard way? Not me.

[Shabdahbriah]

+1 Melodyne. As I have pretty much zero interest/use for vocals, I literally bought the full version ( I think before there even were, "limited" versions) solely for the purpose of translating/extracting MIDI from audio when it first came out with that function, ages ago. Have not found anything even close to it, since. If there is, I would very much like to know about it. [2c]

[D2sX9ek8w3]

Great, thanks.

I have the full-featured Melodyne, but have never used ARA because I usually work in the standalone mode. It seems like its time to learn about ARA.

Late to the party... I know. :-S