GForce Halogen FM - 2 Operator Pair FM Synth

[ghostwhistler]

It seems like a 2op synclavier with cross modulation as well.

The thread title is misleading, it is actually a 4op synth.

I don't need it either, as I have a whole host of FM-synths already, and I didn't hear anything from this synth that sets it apart from what's already available.

Yes, a 2 op synclavier style synth would be 4op

[crimsonwarlock]

Yes, a 2 op synclavier style synth would be 4op

There are no operators in a Synclavier, they are carrier-modulator pairs (called a voice), and the carrier is 24 parts additive, while the modulator is sine wave only. So, the carrier and modulator are not the same as operators in a DX-style synth, as they are different components.

You just make the same mistake as they did with this synthesizer, in calling a voice/oscillator an operator, while it is not and only creating confusion.

[oscillik]

Does Halogen do anything Vital can't?

Yes.

Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike?

Vital is a wavetable / virtual analog synthesis.

Halogen FM is... as one could surmise... FM synthesis.

Vital also does FM...you're not very good at this are you

Halogen is 4 operators, Vital has 3 oscillators, no?

[IvyBirds]

Yes, a 2 op synclavier style synth would be 4op

There are no operators in a Synclavier, they are carrier-modulator pairs (called a voice), and the carrier is 24 parts additive, while the modulator is sine wave only. So, the carrier and modulator are not the same as operators in a DX-style synth, as they are different components.

You just make the same mistake as they did with this synthesizer, in calling a voice/oscillator an operator, while it is not and only creating confusion.

The only one causing confusion is you and it shows a basic ignorance of how FM works and what an Operator is

An operator is a group of components that interact with each other, making one building block of the FM synthesis setup. Furthermore, these operator groups then interact amongst each other.

An operator is either a carrier or a modulator, it makes no difference if they can be arranged in flexible configurations also known as Algorithms or fixed pairs as in the Synclavier

Yamaha made many FM Synths that only had a fixed pair of FM Operators. They were not limited to algorithms

It also doesn't matter if the Operator has a Digital Oscillator that can only make Sine Waves by way of a lookup table as was the case with the DX7, an Additive Oscillator as in the carrier of the original Synclavier (the Regen and modern plugins have additive on both the carrier and modulators), or are like what is in HALion7 which has both fixed waveforms and spectral tools that allow for the creation of virtually any waveform

An operator needs to not just generate a tone but it needs to have envelope controls, it needs to be able change frequencies, and it needs to have the ability to set overall levels. It also needs to be able to interact with other operators in a controlled way

If you don't have those things you just have an Oscillator

Confusion comes when people want to argue semantics rather than deal with industry standard defined terminology

Both Yamaha and New England Digital licensed FM Synthesis techniques from John Chowning at Stanford University. He refers to them as Operators and it's the industry standard nomenclature for both commercial and academic discussions

[El°HYM]

Lets not forget that Vital has 3 oscillators, here.

[crimsonwarlock]

The only one causing confusion is you and it shows a basic ignorance of how FM works and what an Operator is

Of course you step in to show your unchallenged total knowledge of anything synthesizer again. It never seems to occur to you that some other people here do know what they are talking about

An operator is a group of components that interact with each other, making one building block of the FM synthesis setup. Furthermore, these operator groups then interact amongst each other.

I never said anything to the contrary.

An operator is either a carrier or a modulator, it makes no difference if they can be arranged in flexible configurations also known as Algorithms or fixed pairs as in the Synclavier

In most FM synthesizers, operators can indeed function as either a carrier or a modulator because all operators share the same setup. This goes, indeed, also for some FM synths where the 'algorithm' is fixed.

Not so much though in the Synclavier, where the carriers have a different configuration than modulators. Calling them all operators would hide the fact that they were different configurations. In the Synclavier, a carrier is definitely not the same as a modulator.

It also doesn't matter if the Operator has a Digital Oscillator that can only make Sine Waves by way of a lookup table as was the case with the DX7, an Additive Oscillator as in the carrier of the original Synclavier

I didn't make the distinction of what a certain 'operator' can do or not do. The term 'operator' from Chowning's work is directly linked to the possibility to link them in different configurations.

Simply put, you cannot modulate a modulator with a carrier. Obviously!

(the Regen and modern plugins have additive on both the carrier and modulators), or are like what is in HALion7 which has both fixed waveforms and spectral tools that allow for the creation of virtually any waveform

Yep, and all operators in these synths share the same setup

An operator needs to not just generate a tone but it needs to have envelope controls, it needs to be able change frequencies, and it needs to have the ability to set overall levels. It also needs to be able to interact with other operators in a controlled way

I didn't say anything about that, so again irrelevant

Confusion comes when people want to argue semantics rather than deal with industry standard defined terminology

No, confusion comes in when a know-it-all like you starts to throwing all kinds of totally unrelated and/or irrelevant shit into a discussion.

Both Yamaha and New England Digital licensed FM Synthesis techniques from John Chowning at Stanford University. He refers to them as Operators and it's the industry standard nomenclature for both commercial and academic discussions

Commercial synthesizer design, including the related terminology, is way separated from academic development. It doesn't matter that Yamaha choose to call it operators, while NED called it voices, consisting of a carrier and a modulator. The term 'operators' is not used in the industry because of Chowning, it is because Yamaha (largely) commercialized FM-synthesis and called them operators.

[nusound mind]

Ended up picking this up, it's very musical, color me impressed.

Thanks for the feedback. I typically don't like FM synthesis really, at least a lot of it, so I'm doubly impressed and it plays like a proper instrument out of the gate for the programming challenged like myself.

Very nice. I'd love GForce to focus more on innovative stuff, I'm all emulated out when it comes to plugins.

[vitocorleone123]

Does Halogen do anything Vital can't?

Yes.

Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike?

Vital is a wavetable / virtual analog synthesis.

Halogen FM is... as one could surmise... FM synthesis.

Vital also does FM...you're not very good at this are you

I can eat ice cream with a fork but that doesn’t make it a spoon.

Vital is not an FM synth.

Don’t be as sad as you seem.

[IvyBirds]

(the Regen and modern plugins have additive on both the carrier and modulators), or are like what is in HALion7 which has both fixed waveforms and spectral tools that allow for the creation of virtually any waveform

Yep, and all operators in these synths share the same setup

Awesome so you agree with me then that the Synclavier has operators and your entire point was incorrect thanks for the admission

there is no other alternative

In the 1970s and 1980s Synclavier models both the carrier and the modulator are additive

The only restriction is the CPU was not powerful enough to allow for anything but sine waves and so you were restricted to using the additive engine to just make the harmonics needed for a sine wave

They are the same setup just producing different waveforms unless of course both are producing some waves on which case they are the same waveform

[Uncle E]

No point in arguing about it when OP clearly isn't going to change the thread title.

[slackhead]

No point expecting them to stop arguing - they love to argue about pointless things

[Korg Supporter]

No point in arguing about it when OP clearly isn't going to change the thread title.

I did yesterday.From 2OP to 2 Operator Pair

[crimsonwarlock]

Awesome so you agree with me then that the Synclavier has operators and your entire point was incorrect thanks for the admission

Yep, that was NOT what I said, but you tend to do this often.

You're back on my block list

[Dirtgrain]

I don't use synths; I only argue about synthesizer nomenclature.

[Uncle E]

No point in arguing about it when OP clearly isn't going to change the thread title.

I did yesterday.From 2OP to 2 Operator Pair

Thanks!