Software vs. Analog in 2025 – Has the Balance Shifted?

[IvyBirds]

If I imagine a live performance setup, I would pick hardware. Let's see... a couple Elektron boxes, a couple analog synth modules, a Linnstrument and a Mic for vocals. There is no laptop with software synths/drum machine and midi controller(s) that can come close to the sound and hands on capabilities of that setup.

Sure there is, you drive the laptop running gig Performer with the Linnstrunent and have way more Polyphony and options for Timbres as well as far more available tracks for sequencing and can have way more hands on control configured exactly how you want all while spending thousands less

[SoftSynthLover99]

Behringer Wave and the Microwave plugin both only have 8 voices of polyphony vs the 24 voices on the 3rd wave and can't do virtual analog like the 3rd wave.

The 3rd Wave is also 4 part multi-timbral. Someone could combine the 3rd Wave with an Elektron box and make whole compositions with just those two.

Yep my thoughts exactly

[zerocrossing]

Which humans? You can fool some of the people some of the time, and all of that. Ears and perception can be trained with respect to specific phenomenon, sometimes unintentionally.

This is true, but not necessarily simple, or even relevant. I’m one of those “trained” people, though I don’t consider myself to have above average hearing. I’m sure my wife has a wider range, but I’m always, “what’s that sound?” And her response is, “I don’t hear it.” It reminds me of a guy who would come into the place I worked. He would just stare at TVs and refuse any help. He’d come in and ask if any new TVs had been put out, and asked if he could buy any floor model. I thought he was a nutter, and in a way, he was, but I finally asked him what he was looking for. He told me that if he told me, it would ruin TV for me, but I was willing to take the risk.

He proceeded to show me how out of focus all the CRT TVs were, beyond the small “sweet spot” in the center. Even identical TVs of the same model had pretty big differences. He had a very specific size requirement, because he had electrostatic speakers set up so that his head was in the perfect position and they couldn’t be moved. The funny part was, he ended up buying some Sylvania 25 inch, which while having good overall convergence, was a pretty poor looking TV in every other aspect. I personally felt like having better color fidelity and contrast were more important than the edges of the screen being in focus. Our eyes only have a small point of focus anyway.

I guess this is my long winded, blow hardy way of saying that nothing is “perfect,” and that as an artist you can only make aesthetic choices based on your own taste, which is subjective. Is distortion good or bad? Is aliasing good or bad? Is being out of tune good or bad? The answer to all of those is, “both.” My answer to what is better, hardware or software, is also, “both.”

[pdxindy]

Behringer Wave and the Microwave plugin both only have 8 voices of polyphony vs the 24 voices on the 3rd wave and can't do virtual analog like the 3rd wave.

The 3rd Wave is also 4 part multi-timbral. Someone could combine the 3rd Wave with an Elektron box and make whole compositions with just those two.

And when you do that you get 6 voices of Polyphony per timbre, or you know you could just run multiple instances of a VA or Wavetable plugin on a computer and get way more than that for thousands less

I don't have a 3rd Wave so cannot really comment much on it. I'd probably buy a Nina before a 3rd Wave. Nina is also 4 part multi-timbral and half the polyphony (12 voices). 12 voices is enough because 2-3 parts would likely be mono anyway.

And yes, someone could just run a computer with softsynths. But that someone might happen to love the sound of the 3rd Wave or the Nina or other analog or hybrid synth.

A hardware synth is a whole instrument. Some of them are a joy to put hands to and explore music with and that matters to the results for many people.

[IvyBirds]

Behringer Wave and the Microwave plugin both only have 8 voices of polyphony vs the 24 voices on the 3rd wave and can't do virtual analog like the 3rd wave.

The PPG Wave the Behringer Wave is emulating also had 8 voices of polyphony, the Microwave Plugin is pretty light on CPU any halfway decent computer can easily run multiple instances to give you as much polyphony as you need. Now if you are running a bargain basement 10 year old computer you might struggle but then again you can buy a decent computer, the Microwave Plugin, a controller and still save many thousands of dollars

The advantage of the 24 voices of Polyphony on the 3rd Wave is that it's multi timbral. You are limited to four parts and when you do that you get just 6 voices each. Using plugins you can easily exceed that in both multi timbrality and polyphony. If you want PPG Wave Sounds you can load up 6 instances and have six part multi-timbral sounds with a total of 48 voices

And the 3rd wave has the "Wavemaker Tool" onboard so you can make your own wavetables from any source via audio-in which is another thing that really peaks my interest.

There are multiple plugins options that blow that away and don't have you trying to do that on a tiny screen. Making Wavetables is 100% software running on a computer. There is no advantage in anyway to doing so on the 3rd Wavewave and many disadvantages with workflow, ergonomics, and the tiny screen

So while the Behringer Wave and Microwave plugin are significantly cheaper, they are significantly more limited than the 3rd wave for my taste.

Sure the hardware like all hardware it's limited by the limitations of the hardware itself, in software land the Microwave Plugin blows away the 3rd Wave in every conceivable way if your goal is to emulate the PPG Wave. If it's not and you want to do high resolution Wavetables or want to do VA there are so many options on software that blow away the 3rd Wave for thousands upon thousands less

[Quote,]Also that Dave Possum designed 2140 low-pass resonant filter sounds great to me as well as the digital SEM-oberheim esque filter. [/Quote]

So what you are saying is the 100% Software based digital synth running on a computer including the filter sounds great

This guy has a really good take on the 3rd wave and even said he had packed it up to return it before really getting the hang of it

Yeah I watched before and watched parts of it again. What we have is an obvious hardware synth guy who buys a $5,000 synth with the primary function of recreating the PPG Wave right down to the color and branding, but doesn't like that aspect, and is ready to send it back, but who then is shocked to learn that the 100% digital parts running code in a computer to generate VA parts sound good so he decides to keep the VA to run software VA but at least he isn't used a Mac Book or a PC to do so

[IvyBirds]

Behringer Wave and the Microwave plugin both only have 8 voices of polyphony vs the 24 voices on the 3rd wave and can't do virtual analog like the 3rd wave.

The 3rd Wave is also 4 part multi-timbral. Someone could combine the 3rd Wave with an Elektron box and make whole compositions with just those two.

And when you do that you get 6 voices of Polyphony per timbre, or you know you could just run multiple instances of a VA or Wavetable plugin on a computer and get way more than that for thousands less

I don't have a 3rd Wave so cannot really comment much on it. I'd probably buy a Nina before a 3rd Wave. Nina is also 4 part multi-timbral and half the polyphony (12 voices). 12 voices is enough because 2-3 parts would likely be mono anyway.

And yes, someone could just run a computer with softsynths. But that someone might happen to love the sound of the 3rd Wave or the Nina or other analog or hybrid synth.

And that's awesome but then why are you talking about things like polyphony and multi-timbrality which software plugins will always blow out of the water? Which is it? Is it the sound or the polyphony? Is it the sound or the Multi-timbrality?

If you like the sound of a piece of hardware and can deal with the limitations if it and the financial hit of it awesome get it, but let's not pretend 4 part multi-timbrality and 24 voices of Polyphony is all that impressive for a digital synth in 2025. My Montage M which is hardware BTW blows that away for less cost

I don't have any experience with the Nina so I won't comment on it, but I do have first hand experience with the 3rd Wave and it's not really all that impressive for the price like at all

It feels and sounds like something that should cost around $2000 or less and probably closer to $1000 especially when it's in a show room like Sweetwater with every synth imaginable hooked up and ready to demo

A hardware synth is a whole instrument. Some of them are a joy to put hands to and explore music with and that matters to the results for many people.

My setup is also a joy to put hands to and explore music, and because it's set up exactly how I want even more so than any dedicated hardware synth options and that matters to results for me

[zerocrossing]

If I imagine a live performance setup, I would pick hardware. Let's see... a couple Elektron boxes, a couple analog synth modules, a Linnstrument and a Mic for vocals. There is no laptop with software synths/drum machine and midi controller(s) that can come close to the sound and hands on capabilities of that setup.

Sure there is, you drive the laptop running gig Performer with the Linnstrunent and have way more Polyphony and options for Timbres as well as far more available tracks for sequencing and can have way more hands on control configured exactly how you want all while spending thousands less

You keep countering specifics with generalities, as if a specific tool can’t have meaning to an individual.

I kept hearing demos of the Analog Four and RYTM that, for lack of better terms, “grabbed me.” Now, I’d owned Elektron gear in the past, and I absolutely hated their interface style, and I’d never buy one again if I had to deal with it. This was the time they announced their software editor, Overbridge. After it was released and demos started popping up, I bought the synthesizers. The first thing I did was attempt to recreate their sounds on software and other hardware synths that I owned. This is what I always do, and I really do a very thorough job, especially with more extreme settings.

To cut to the chase, there is nothing I could find that could capture the sound of those instruments. Now, not everyone even likes those sounds, and some hate them, but I love them. Do I need them? Of course not, but I could afford them and had the space for them. I understand that the world is about compromises, but why compromise when you don’t have to?

It’s like my mom. She loves mint chocolate chip ice cream, so when she was visiting, we took her to this small-batch, all organic ice cream place in Berkeley, CA. Her response? “I like my ShopRite (a super market chain) brand better. This tastes too much like real mint.” Is she wrong?

[vurt]

polyphony is a fad.

[SoftSynthLover99]

Behringer Wave and the Microwave plugin both only have 8 voices of polyphony vs the 24 voices on the 3rd wave and can't do virtual analog like the 3rd wave.

The advantage of the 24 voices of Polyphony on the 3rd Wave is that it's multi timbral. You are limited to four parts and when you do that you get just 6 voices each. Using plugins you can easily exceed that in both multi timbrality and polyphony. If you want PPG Wave Sounds you can load up 6 instances and have six part multi-timbral sounds with a total of 48 voices

True but I could also layer the 3rd wave and have infinite polyphony and multi timbrality. And the 3rd wave has 70+ knobs and buttons all assigned to synth parameters for immediate access and sound design.

You really can't recreate that hardware workflow with a midi controller. None are available with that many knobs/buttons/sliders to even get you a fraction of the way there. The most you'd get is maybe 8+8 on a single midi controller like a Keylab vs 70+ knobs and buttons on a single dedicated hardware synth the 3rd wave.

So for synths I much rather have 70 knobs and buttons to work with instead of just 8 knobs/sliders that I have to manually assign myself and memorize what each knob/slider is assigned to. Any limitations in other areas I will gladly take as long as the synth 1) sounds good and 2) performs and plays well.

[SoftSynthLover99]

polyphony is a fad.

[IvyBirds]

If I imagine a live performance setup, I would pick hardware. Let's see... a couple Elektron boxes, a couple analog synth modules, a Linnstrument and a Mic for vocals. There is no laptop with software synths/drum machine and midi controller(s) that can come close to the sound and hands on capabilities of that setup.

Sure there is, you drive the laptop running gig Performer with the Linnstrunent and have way more Polyphony and options for Timbres as well as far more available tracks for sequencing and can have way more hands on control configured exactly how you want all while spending thousands less

You keep countering specifics with generalities, as if a specific tool can’t have meaning to an individual.

I kept hearing demos of the Analog Four and RYTM that, for lack of better terms, “grabbed me.” Now, I’d owned Elektron gear in the past, and I absolutely hated their interface style, and I’d never buy one again if I had to deal with it. This was the time they announced their software editor, Overbridge. After it was released and demos started popping up, I bought the synthesizers. The first thing I did was attempt to recreate their sounds on software and other hardware synths that I owned. This is what I always do, and I really do a very thorough job, especially with more extreme settings.

To cut to the chase, there is nothing I could find that could capture the sound of those instruments.

Since they are not MPE what would be the point of using them in the hypothetical setup with the Linnstrunent? Furthermore what Analog Synth modules have MPE?

Again we were presented with a hypothetical live rig with a MPE controller, Elektron Boxes, and Analog Synth modules that none of the instruments listed can take advantage of

You are a fan of MPE what's the Linnstrunent being used for?

As far as specifics what specifics were we given? We were presented with generic Elektron boxes and Generic Analog Synth modules with no specifics at all besides a specific MIDI controller they can't use

I have a ton of plugins that can use an MPE controller and because of that would have far more hands on performance capabilities and sonic options over a few generic Elektron boxes and analog synth module's

[SoftSynthLover99]

Behringer Wave and the Microwave plugin both only have 8 voices of polyphony vs the 24 voices on the 3rd wave and can't do virtual analog like the 3rd wave.

The 3rd Wave is also 4 part multi-timbral. Someone could combine the 3rd Wave with an Elektron box and make whole compositions with just those two.

And when you do that you get 6 voices of Polyphony per timbre, or you know you could just run multiple instances of a VA or Wavetable plugin on a computer and get way more than that for thousands less

I don't have a 3rd Wave so cannot really comment much on it. I'd probably buy a Nina before a 3rd Wave. Nina is also 4 part multi-timbral and half the polyphony (12 voices). 12 voices is enough because 2-3 parts would likely be mono anyway.

And yes, someone could just run a computer with softsynths. But that someone might happen to love the sound of the 3rd Wave or the Nina or other analog or hybrid synth.

And that's awesome but then why are you talking about things like polyphony and multi-timbrality which software plugins will always blow out of the water? Which is it? Is it the sound or the polyphony? Is it the sound or the Multi-timbrality?

If someone just uses the 3rd wave with all 24 voices of polyphony you have to combine multiple software plugin instances to achieve what that 1 hardware synth can do. So if we are just talking about 1 synth vs 1 synth the 3rd wave has the vast majority of software plugins beat.

You can't challenge someone to a fight then show up with 4 of your buddies and call it a fair fight

[pdxindy]

If I imagine a live performance setup, I would pick hardware. Let's see... a couple Elektron boxes, a couple analog synth modules, a Linnstrument and a Mic for vocals. There is no laptop with software synths/drum machine and midi controller(s) that can come close to the sound and hands on capabilities of that setup.

Sure there is, you drive the laptop running gig Performer with the Linnstrunent and have way more Polyphony and options for Timbres as well as far more available tracks for sequencing and can have way more hands on control configured exactly how you want all while spending thousands less

There is no laptop/midi controller combo that can match the hands on agility and fluidity of working realtime with the Elektron sequencer. Then there is no software drum machine that comes close to the sound of the Elektron Rytm. There's no software option I've come across that's even remotely close.

The 2 Osc VCO machine in the Rytm is unique. Not even my other analog synths sound like it.

If you like Gig Performer, that's fine, but that doesn't mean it comes anywhere close to meeting someone else's interests.

[SoftSynthLover99]

If I imagine a live performance setup, I would pick hardware. Let's see... a couple Elektron boxes, a couple analog synth modules, a Linnstrument and a Mic for vocals. There is no laptop with software synths/drum machine and midi controller(s) that can come close to the sound and hands on capabilities of that setup.

It’s like my mom. She loves mint chocolate chip ice cream, so when she was visiting, we took her to this small-batch, all organic ice cream place in Berkeley, CA. Her response? “I like my ShopRite (a super market chain) brand better. This tastes too much like real mint.” Is she wrong?

Hahaha sounds like my dad. He will take biscuitville breakfast over any other breakfast food you can throw at him including my moms home cooked breakfast.

I think once you have acquired a certain taste it is hard to deviate from it even if something technically "better" exist out there. Creatures of habit we humans are

[IvyBirds]

Behringer Wave and the Microwave plugin both only have 8 voices of polyphony vs the 24 voices on the 3rd wave and can't do virtual analog like the 3rd wave.

The 3rd Wave is also 4 part multi-timbral. Someone could combine the 3rd Wave with an Elektron box and make whole compositions with just those two.

And when you do that you get 6 voices of Polyphony per timbre, or you know you could just run multiple instances of a VA or Wavetable plugin on a computer and get way more than that for thousands less

I don't have a 3rd Wave so cannot really comment much on it. I'd probably buy a Nina before a 3rd Wave. Nina is also 4 part multi-timbral and half the polyphony (12 voices). 12 voices is enough because 2-3 parts would likely be mono anyway.

And yes, someone could just run a computer with softsynths. But that someone might happen to love the sound of the 3rd Wave or the Nina or other analog or hybrid synth.

And that's awesome but then why are you talking about things like polyphony and multi-timbrality which software plugins will always blow out of the water? Which is it? Is it the sound or the polyphony? Is it the sound or the Multi-timbrality?

If someone just uses the 3rd wave with all 24 voices of polyphony you have to combine multiple software plugin instances to achieve what that 1 hardware synth can do. So if we are just talking about 1 synth vs 1 synth the 3rd wave has the vast majority of software plugins beat.

You can't challenge someone to a fight then show up with 4 of your buddies and call it a fair fight

You are right it's not a fair fight because when it comes to polyphony software running on a laptop will always win

Sure you can get a 3rd Wave and get 24 voices of polyphony and four part multi-timbrality or you can get a laptop and have hundreds of voices of polyphony, and multi-timbrality measured by the dozens, and have the ability to have far more than just 4 stereo outputs if you need or desire all for thousands less