Software vs. Analog in 2025 – Has the Balance Shifted?

[justin3am]

Where he has all kinds of empty wall space yet has modular synths on the floor which no one would do who actually used them and had empty wall space

lol, we went over that earlier. I have a room full of hardware modular, a lot of which I use while sitting on the floor, even though there is empty wall space. It is my preferred position for modular jamming, particularly when I'm using my Buchla or ARP 2600. I can't say if that person actually uses their modular synths but having synths on the floor doesn't mean they aren't used.

There are all kinds of people who work all kinds of ways. No one way is the right way.

[zerocrossing]

And the 3rd wave has 70+ knobs and buttons all assigned to synth parameters for immediate access and sound design.

You really can't recreate that hardware workflow with a midi controller. None are available with that many knobs/buttons/sliders to even get you a fraction of the way there.

The Faderfox PC12 has 72 knobs. (costs $900)

The main problem isn't finding midi controllers with lots of knobs/buttons/sliders, it's mapping the controller to software synths. It's a freakin nightmare and at best it works poorly.

I'm not sold on the sound of the 3rd Wave, but the user interface is great.

Maybe on the keyboard version, but I found the desktop version to be kind of clumsy. Stuff in weird places and away from similar settings. Top it off, mod matrix slot amounts can’t be modulated by other mod matrix slots, like on the Prophet 12, which seriously hampers flexibility.

[IvyBirds]

Where he has all kinds of empty wall space yet has modular synths on the floor which no one would do who actually used them and had empty wall space

lol, we went over that earlier. I have a room full of hardware modular, a lot of which I use while sitting on the floor, even though there is empty wall space. It is my preferred position for modular jamming, particularly when I'm using my Buchla or ARP 2600. I can't say if that person actually uses their modular synths but having synths on the floor doesn't mean they aren't used.

There are all kinds of people who work all kinds of ways. No one way is the right way.

Awesome so you also have modulars on the floor, up by the ceiling, on opposite walls and meters apart from each other?

If you want to lay on floor and play with modulars awesome but how are you interacting with the ones two meters above you? Or across the room on the other wall? Of 3 meters to the side of you?

Again no one actually using those in a room that large is laying on the floor

[ghettosynth]

Where he has all kinds of empty wall space yet has modular synths on the floor which no one would do who actually used them and had empty wall space

lol, we went over that earlier. I have a room full of hardware modular, a lot of which I use while sitting on the floor, even though there is empty wall space. It is my preferred position for modular jamming, particularly when I'm using my Buchla or ARP 2600. I can't say if that person actually uses their modular synths but having synths on the floor doesn't mean they aren't used.

There are all kinds of people who work all kinds of ways. No one way is the right way.

Awesome so you also have modulars on the floor, up by the ceiling, on opposite walls and meters apart from each other?

If you want to lay on floor and play with modulars awesome but how are you interacting with the ones two meters above you? Or across the room on the other wall? Of 3 meters to the side of you?

Again no one actually using those in a room that large is laying on the floor

You don't actually know. But, taking the image at face value, there is a make noise system on the floor that's patched into the modules in the Doepfer racks above. The outputs are almost certainly routed into his computer in the center of the room.

I think that some people get the idea that everyone who uses a modular synth sits there and tweaks the knobs with their pinky outstretched. What we can say is that it appears to have been in use and that the Make Noise system would have been the easier cabinet to move.

[crimsonwarlock]

Does anyone remember the Deadmau5 livestream where he starts trying to show off his new modular system and it’s clear he has no idea what he’s doing? Classic.

I didn't mention anything about the quality of his work. I'm certainly not a fan

[machinesworking]

I'd rather program a typical MiniMoog software emulation with the mouse than doing it from a generic controller, any day.

I've spent thousands of dollars on various midi controllers and I always end up back with the mouse and screen. The mouse is a magnitude or more faster.

The basic idea of Device Panels in Bitwig is the compromise that makes the most sense. 90% of the time I preset scroll until I find a sound I like, but I end up wanting some change to it, most of the time that involves the usual suspects. That said third party solutions like NKS always end up garbage, and MIDI 2.0 didn't add in soft synths and control surface support, so it's up to DAW developers to add it in.

[whyterabbyt]

There are all kinds of people who work all kinds of ways. No one way is the right way.

You're clearly underestimating the importance of being able to reach all your gear simultaneously.

[ghettosynth]

There are all kinds of people who work all kinds of ways. No one way is the right way.

You're clearly underestimating the importance of being able to reach all your gear simultaneously.

All the gear, all at the same time, with all the hands.

[vurt]

Something that keeps coming up is the cost difference between analog/hardware versus software. Should this be a factor? If money was no object, would a billionaire choose software over hardware? If a billionaire had one big studio fully equipped with a large collection of hardware synths, along with a mixing desk and a professional audio engineer, and another studio with a Mac or PC running software, which studio would he choose?

why a billionaire?
why not "did someone eat ramen noodles, just half a pack a day, to be able to afford a hardware doohicky over its software counterpart?"

[whyterabbyt]

There are all kinds of people who work all kinds of ways. No one way is the right way.

You're clearly underestimating the importance of being able to reach all your gear simultaneously.

All the gear, all at the same time, with all the hands.

I did try that once, and my balance(*) absolutely did shift, so I guess we may have resolved the whole thread.

* Possibly a couple of vertebrae too.

[vurt]

There are all kinds of people who work all kinds of ways. No one way is the right way.

You're clearly underestimating the importance of being able to reach all your gear simultaneously.

All the gear, all at the same time, with all the hands.

octodebussy?

[whyterabbyt]

octodebussy?

[IvyBirds]

And the 3rd wave has 70+ knobs and buttons all assigned to synth parameters for immediate access and sound design.

You really can't recreate that hardware workflow with a midi controller. None are available with that many knobs/buttons/sliders to even get you a fraction of the way there.

The Faderfox PC12 has 72 knobs. (costs $900)

The main problem isn't finding midi controllers with lots of knobs/buttons/sliders, it's mapping the controller to software synths. It's a freakin nightmare and at best it works poorly.

I'm not sold on the sound of the 3rd Wave, but the user interface is great.

It's dead simple to map controllers if you use the right tools that utilize DAW Automation and not CCs and have a basic plan on what you want to do ahead of time

As Steven Covey used to teach back in the day "Begin with the end in mind"

The end goal (at least for me) of a synth in hardware or software with 70+ controls is not to manipulate 70+ things in real time as you are playing. It's to use those controls to program new patches in a hands on way and to avoid the issue that many hardware and software synths have where what you need to do is one screen, and while you are adjusting that, there is something else on a different screen that you also want to adjust.

Or overcome the limitations of a mouse only being able to only adjust one thing at a time

It's amazing to use the sequencer built into my controller to play a small sequence of either arps or chords while I use both hands at the same time to control all sorts of things as I program sounds in real time, this isn't really a performance but just using your eyes, ears and hands to program a synth in real time

It only takes 15-30 minutes to map a software synth to controllers in a useable way, if you are doing one that is super complex with a lot of options it might take 45. You don't have to really change anything in the controller itself it's all software in the computer

Moving forward if you want to add or delete a control, or change something that only takes a few seconds and is simple to do

There are also things , in particular things like drop down menus where a mouse is still the most tactile option that makes the most sense, it's not an either/or scenario it all works together

Keep in mind for these things if you were using hardware for those same things you are deep into menu diving territory for those. Even the 3rd Wave with 70+ controls has menu diving

[justin3am]

There are all kinds of people who work all kinds of ways. No one way is the right way.

You're clearly underestimating the importance of being able to reach all your gear simultaneously.

I don't know man, my arms are pretty long. I only have to be able to touch it from my desk chair or what are the rules?

[vurt]

If you want to lay on floor and play with modulars awesome but how are you interacting with the ones two meters above you? Or across the room on the other wall? Of 3 meters to the side of you?

get up and move?
same as i would if i was moving from keys to guitar for example.
its not like you have to tweak everything all the time!!!

Again no one actually using those in a room that large is laying on the floor

sitting maybe?