Software vs. Analog in 2025 – Has the Balance Shifted?

[IvyBirds]

Careful now you analog purist heretic!!

And that Waldorf M may cause some serious cognitive dissonance...

That is also a synth that makes sounds the computer can't replicate.

With the exception of the Microwave Plugin of course

The Waldorf M is just recreating the original Microwave 1 hardware from back in the day, which I was a long term owner of, as well as owning a Microwave XT long term

Not sure why anyone would say the sounds of a computer which is what the M and the Microwave were can't be be replicated with a computer

The Waldorf M has analogue filters.

And? Just like with the 3rd Wave bolting analog filters on the end of signal chain on a 100% digital software based instrument isn't very exciting and most certainly doesn't really add anything to the sound

If Analog filters add nothing to the sound of a synth, why do plugin developers spend so much time trying to emulate various types of analog filters?

If Analog Filters add so much to the sound of the 3rd Wave why are you still unsure about the sound of it? Shouldn't they automatically make it a must buy for you?

I'm not sold on the sound of the 3rd Wave, but the user interface is great.

Yeah, not totally sold on 3rd wave either

Analog Filters don't add much because they have been modeled quite effectively with software as such they don't add much of anything, in and of themselves

Which is exactly why both the 3rd Wave and the Waldorf M have software filters

In Subtractive Synthesis you generate rich harmonic content in a variety of ways including using digital software based methods and then apply a filter to remove some of it to further sculpt the sound

You can do that with analog methods or digital ones but the end results are the same hence why you are still not sold on the 3rd Wave but do find the sound of its software based digital filters to sound good as did the guy in the video you shared of it

[El°HYM]

Analog Synths often sitting much better in the Mix!

[pdxindy]

Careful now you analog purist heretic!!

And that Waldorf M may cause some serious cognitive dissonance...

That is also a synth that makes sounds the computer can't replicate.

With the exception of the Microwave Plugin of course

The Waldorf M is just recreating the original Microwave 1 hardware from back in the day, which I was a long term owner of, as well as owning a Microwave XT long term

Not sure why anyone would say the sounds of a computer which is what the M and the Microwave were can't be be replicated with a computer

The Waldorf M has analogue filters.

That Waldorf M also has the stereo analog VCA's... which contribute to it's lovely and nuanced character.

Waldorf's Microwave plugin doesn't sound the same (different filters and features) or as good.

In modern mode, the M has the digital filters from the XT. So it has the osc's -> digital filter -> analog filter as an option. There are also the transients and a few non wavetable osc types. None of that is available in Waldorf's Microwave1 plugin.

[El°HYM]

That Waldorf M also has the stereo analog VCA's... which contribute to it's lovely and nuanced character.

Glad that I am not the only synth connoisseur in this thread.

[seafire]

All I did was answer your question...

Not quite, but keep projecting

I have participated in enough of these threads over the years to know that's how it goes

Joined Nov 2024

So an innocent enough question, but whatever

Why are you lying about when I joined?

Typo, 1 year out, whoopee

[IvyBirds]

Careful now you analog purist heretic!!

And that Waldorf M may cause some serious cognitive dissonance...

That is also a synth that makes sounds the computer can't replicate.

With the exception of the Microwave Plugin of course

The Waldorf M is just recreating the original Microwave 1 hardware from back in the day, which I was a long term owner of, as well as owning a Microwave XT long term

Not sure why anyone would say the sounds of a computer which is what the M and the Microwave were can't be be replicated with a computer

The Waldorf M has analogue filters.

That Waldorf M also has the stereo analog VCA's... which contribute to it's lovely and nuanced character.

Waldorf's Microwave plugin doesn't sound the same (different filters and features) or as good.

In modern mode, the M has the digital filters from the XT. So it has the osc's -> digital filter -> analog filter as an option. There are also the transients and a few non wavetable osc types. None of that is available in Waldorf's Microwave1 plugin.

Wow so instead of using the Microwave Plugin, I can use Xenia by the Usual Suspects which runs the exact firmware from the original Microwave XT hardware and sounds exactly the same in every way because it's literally running the same exact code?

So you are saying that the sounds of it can be emulated on a computer because you are referring to sounds from the XT which was a computer and that computer is now running in full exact emulation in my computer right down to the same exact firmware

Yes I know that the M has stereo envelopes which FWIW are still digitally controlled via software am I supposed to be impressed? Wow a computer is used to to generate voltages which then get used in a VCA to change the sound of a 100% software based tone generator playing back digital Wavetables

I don't pretend to know everything, but when it comes to the PPG Wave and more specifically the hardware and software synths that have emulated it over the years I know it very well. I have personally owned and used the Microwave both the first generation and the later one, and the Blofeld which has the PPG Wavetables inside of it in a clean modern sounding synth

I also own and use the Plugins both the Waldorf Microwave, Blofeld, and Xenia

Beyond that I have sought out and done extensive demos with the hardware synths made that mimic the PPG Wave including all of the Waldorf Synths, the 3rd Wave, and the Behringer Wave

In the end none of the hardware synths have made any sense because software exists that costs thousands less, sounds awesome and has more functionality

[pdxindy]

If Analog filters add nothing to the sound of a synth, why do plugin developers spend so much time trying to emulate various types of analog filters?

I like both digital and analog osc's. I have lots of both in hardware and modular hardware. Both are amazing in their own ways and if I could only pick one type, it would have to be digital.

When it comes to filters though, analog filters are just flat out better to my ears.

[seafire]

All I did was answer your question...

Not quite, but keep projecting

I have participated in enough of these threads over the years to know that's how it goes

Joined Nov 2024

So an innocent enough question, but whatever

Why are you lying about when I joined? You keep on engaging in conspiracy theories against me and are now flat out lying about me.

But these types of threads have existed in many forums, Facebook, Reddit, and other places for decades. These types of threads were happening on the old Amiga dial in Bulletin Board I participated 35 years ago

And for the record I joined KVR in November of 2023 the same as you which is why I asked you what was your previous user name since you think joining in November 2023 is somehow nefarious

But I lurked on this forum for a long time prior, I finally joined because by November of 2023, I was for the most part fully software based and this forum is one of the most popular forums for software Synths, and I specifically wanted to actively participate in the HALion7 thread

Ohhhhh what a conspiracy, man joins forum with a heavy focus on software synths to talk about software synths

[seafire]

When it comes to filters though, analog filters are just flat out better to my ears.

That's because they are.

[pdxindy]

That Waldorf M also has the stereo analog VCA's... which contribute to it's lovely and nuanced character.

Glad that I am not the only synth connoisseur in this thread.

There's something magical about the VCA's in the M.

And I especially like that the M has lots of gain so I can set the Osc's levels low in the mixer and there is still plenty of level. The sound stage is gorgeous and the synth has a startling and effortless clarity. And I'm talking dry, no added fx (and the M has none) and it sounds incredible and spacious.

[SoftSynthLover99]

Careful now you analog purist heretic!!

And that Waldorf M may cause some serious cognitive dissonance...

That is also a synth that makes sounds the computer can't replicate.

With the exception of the Microwave Plugin of course

The Waldorf M is just recreating the original Microwave 1 hardware from back in the day, which I was a long term owner of, as well as owning a Microwave XT long term

Not sure why anyone would say the sounds of a computer which is what the M and the Microwave were can't be be replicated with a computer

The Waldorf M has analogue filters.

And? Just like with the 3rd Wave bolting analog filters on the end of signal chain on a 100% digital software based instrument isn't very exciting and most certainly doesn't really add anything to the sound

If Analog filters add nothing to the sound of a synth, why do plugin developers spend so much time trying to emulate various types of analog filters?

If Analog Filters add so much to the sound of the 3rd Wave why are you still unsure about the sound of it? Shouldn't they automatically make it a must buy for you?

I'm not sold on the sound of the 3rd Wave, but the user interface is great.

Yeah, not totally sold on 3rd wave either

Analog Filters don't add much because they have been modeled quite effectively with software as such they don't add much of anything, in and of themselves

Which is exactly why both the 3rd Wave and the Waldorf M have software filters

In Subtractive Synthesis you generate rich harmonic content in a variety of ways including using digital software based methods and then apply a filter to remove some of it to further sculpt the sound

You can do that with analog methods or digital ones but the end results are the same hence why you are still not sold on the 3rd Wave but do find the sound of its software based digital filters to sound good as did the guy in the video you shared of it

So again, why do the developers of synth plugins spend time modeling various analog filter types if analog filters don't really matter to the overall sound? What are they trying to capture by modeling analog filters?

[SoftSynthLover99]

If Analog filters add nothing to the sound of a synth, why do plugin developers spend so much time trying to emulate various types of analog filters?

I like both digital and analog osc's. I have lots of both in hardware and modular hardware. Both are amazing in their own ways and if I could only pick one type, it would have to be digital.

When it comes to filters though, analog filters are just flat out better to my ears.

Yeah I'd agree with that. I feel like analog VCAs and Filters are where a lot of the magic happens when it comes to the way synths sound. Waldorf Quantum MK2 is on my list as well because that also seems to be a highly versatile hybrid! Even Hans Zimmer was praising that one

“I really do think Waldorf has pushed the art of synthesizers forward.”

Hans Zimmer

[IvyBirds]

All I did was answer your question...

Not quite, but keep projecting

I have participated in enough of these threads over the years to know that's how it goes

Joined Nov 2024

So an innocent enough question, but whatever

Why are you lying about when I joined? You keep on engaging in conspiracy theories against me and are now flat out lying about me.

But these types of threads have existed in many forums, Facebook, Reddit, and other places for decades. These types of threads were happening on the old Amiga dial in Bulletin Board I participated 35 years ago

And for the record I joined KVR in November of 2023 the same as you which is why I asked you what was your previous user name since you think joining in November 2023 is somehow nefarious

But I lurked on this forum for a long time prior, I finally joined because by November of 2023, I was for the most part fully software based and this forum is one of the most popular forums for software Synths, and I specifically wanted to actively participate in the HALion7 thread

Ohhhhh what a conspiracy, man joins forum with a heavy focus on software synths to talk about software synths

Yes you are making a mountain out of a mole hill with your conspiracy theories against me

If you weren't you would just let it go

[IvyBirds]

With the exception of the Microwave Plugin of course

The Waldorf M is just recreating the original Microwave 1 hardware from back in the day, which I was a long term owner of, as well as owning a Microwave XT long term

Not sure why anyone would say the sounds of a computer which is what the M and the Microwave were can't be be replicated with a computer

The Waldorf M has analogue filters.

And? Just like with the 3rd Wave bolting analog filters on the end of signal chain on a 100% digital software based instrument isn't very exciting and most certainly doesn't really add anything to the sound

If Analog filters add nothing to the sound of a synth, why do plugin developers spend so much time trying to emulate various types of analog filters?

If Analog Filters add so much to the sound of the 3rd Wave why are you still unsure about the sound of it? Shouldn't they automatically make it a must buy for you?

I'm not sold on the sound of the 3rd Wave, but the user interface is great.

Yeah, not totally sold on 3rd wave either

Analog Filters don't add much because they have been modeled quite effectively with software as such they don't add much of anything, in and of themselves

Which is exactly why both the 3rd Wave and the Waldorf M have software filters

In Subtractive Synthesis you generate rich harmonic content in a variety of ways including using digital software based methods and then apply a filter to remove some of it to further sculpt the sound

You can do that with analog methods or digital ones but the end results are the same hence why you are still not sold on the 3rd Wave but do find the sound of its software based digital filters to sound good as did the guy in the video you shared of it

So again, why do the developers of synth plugins spend time modeling various analog filter types if analog filters don't really matter to the overall sound? What are they trying to capture by modeling analog filters?

Ohhh I get it now I need to explain it to you like you are in Kindergarten

In Subtractive Synthesis models you need a filter to sculpt the final sound

As of this writing it's July of 2025, not July of 1975

In July of 2025 making this filter analog doesn't really matter much as you can accomplish the same thing with digital technology

You seem to be trying to say making the filter Analog matters, while also ignoring the fact that it's a filter

What many Synth developers like to do is design modern filters in either the analog or software domain to filter sound like old filter designs. Where rich Harmonic content came into the filter on one end and then came out the other side being different

Should be pointed out that there are many filters designs in software that don't mimic designs from the 50+ years

So to recap having a filter matters, that filter being an actual analog circuit not so much

[ghettosynth]

If Analog filters add nothing to the sound of a synth, why do plugin developers spend so much time trying to emulate various types of analog filters?

I like both digital and analog osc's. I have lots of both in hardware and modular hardware. Both are amazing in their own ways and if I could only pick one type, it would have to be digital.

When it comes to filters though, analog filters are just flat out better to my ears.

Yeah I'd agree with that. I feel like analog VCAs and Filters are where a lot of the magic happens when it comes to the way synths sound. Waldorf Quantum MK2 is on my list as well because that also seems to be a highly versatile hybrid! Even Hans Zimmer was praising that one

“I really do think Waldorf has pushed the art of synthesizers forward.”

Hans Zimmer

Paul Schreiber, of Synthtech, once asserted that the VCF/VCA contribute roughly 90% of what makes analog sound analog. Now, he was pulling the number from the sky, so to speak, but that was based on his years of experience designing synths.

When it comes to oscillators, it's very much context dependent. Unfortunately, much of this context dependence gets misattributed by most people. So, we end up with old wives tails about Moog VCOs regarding, e.g., vintage transistors, when, it's more likely that the shared expo converter is contributing much of what people hear. See (the late) Jurgen Habile's Living VCOs for more discussion of this. What this means is that a comparison of the raw VCO sound on an o-scope or even a spectrum analyzer is a waste of everyone's time. Yes, I'm talking about Starsky's accent infused Dunning Kruger level insight. In that context, you really only hear the subtlety with two VCOs, and the difference is often subtle and slow moving.

Now, I'm not saying that this particular effect can't be emulated, it can, it's a simple idea, modulo, our ability to convince the listener that our model of thermal drift is correct.

I am saying that this kind of misattribution and, frankly, ignorant analysis is what helps to persist both misunderstanding and a lack of understanding. Whether the relevant contexts are important to you is what will drive whether the actual differences between a thing and a model of a thing are important to you. Trying to gather it all under a single binary umbrella isn't going to work.