Soundfont technology out-of-date?
-
- KVRist
- 125 posts since 23 Apr, 2004 from USA
IMHO, putting technology aside, soundfonts have bailed me out a few times. Even though I have a quazillion libraries/samples in different formats I often find myself reaching for those old classic fonts to get just that right sound I am looking for.
Al-
-
- KVRAF
- 2988 posts since 11 Apr, 2001
Wow. I first thought this was a poll.
And I was ready to vote for ¨yes, Soundfont technology is obsolete¨, till I read the introductive post by mister Hyde. At least, the filters poll bias was introduced in a slighter fashion
Back to the topic. I do believe SF2 tech is obsolete. However, what formst isn´t? If you take a look at the major 'samplers' in the industry, you´ll see they´re using closed formats. The DLS2 format, which was the natural sucessor to SF2 has only been adopted by one major player, and it's strongly based on propietary opcodes, therefore it doesn't count.
I don't think the sfz format is 'state of the art' though. Unlike Mr. Hyde says, everyone has a FREE editor for it. It's called Notepad.exe, and it's part of Windows. We can argue that 'state of the art' is having fancy graphics while editing, but that's completely unrelated to the sample format capabilities. After all, the task of compiling several thousand samples, editing them all and mapping those in a fabulous violin is not user's task, but sound designers task.
In any case, I see Mr. Hyde did get one thing well: the sfz format is a baby yet. As with any baby, let's take care of it and watch it grow. But enjoy it in the meantime
-René
And I was ready to vote for ¨yes, Soundfont technology is obsolete¨, till I read the introductive post by mister Hyde. At least, the filters poll bias was introduced in a slighter fashion
Back to the topic. I do believe SF2 tech is obsolete. However, what formst isn´t? If you take a look at the major 'samplers' in the industry, you´ll see they´re using closed formats. The DLS2 format, which was the natural sucessor to SF2 has only been adopted by one major player, and it's strongly based on propietary opcodes, therefore it doesn't count.
I don't think the sfz format is 'state of the art' though. Unlike Mr. Hyde says, everyone has a FREE editor for it. It's called Notepad.exe, and it's part of Windows. We can argue that 'state of the art' is having fancy graphics while editing, but that's completely unrelated to the sample format capabilities. After all, the task of compiling several thousand samples, editing them all and mapping those in a fabulous violin is not user's task, but sound designers task.
In any case, I see Mr. Hyde did get one thing well: the sfz format is a baby yet. As with any baby, let's take care of it and watch it grow. But enjoy it in the meantime
-René
-
- KVRist
- 140 posts since 30 Oct, 2004 from London
I think sf2 format can be easily extended to have new features, just by adding new chunks with new informations. Also downward compatibility will be saved... But probably everyone will set his own specification... hmm who will be the first with good sampler (and show extended specs), he win.
By extending format i think we will get cool synthesizer instead of sampler
Greetz
By extending format i think we will get cool synthesizer instead of sampler
Greetz
-
- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
Does anybody know about the soundfont 2.1 specs
If you use a soundblaster/EMU card with emu drivers you have endless manipulation with soundfonts within the 2.1 specs.
http://www.soundfont.com/documents/sfspec21.pdf
Somehow no one of the software soundfont players follow this standard, but if they did you had no way to complain about limitations within the soundfont standard.
It is very very deep, and allmost everything can be modulated by everything.
Go on and read the pdf document and see for yourself.
And software soundfont makers come on
If you use a soundblaster/EMU card with emu drivers you have endless manipulation with soundfonts within the 2.1 specs.
http://www.soundfont.com/documents/sfspec21.pdf
Somehow no one of the software soundfont players follow this standard, but if they did you had no way to complain about limitations within the soundfont standard.
It is very very deep, and allmost everything can be modulated by everything.
Go on and read the pdf document and see for yourself.
And software soundfont makers come on
-
- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
-
- KVRian
- 820 posts since 15 Dec, 2004
Ole, is Emu supporting sf2.1 in their emulatorX products? Are Audigy series supporting it?
Is not sarcasm, im asking because i really dont know.
I believe that they drop the support of 2.1 when they finish the APS series (that dont have new drivers from i dont remember when)
Is not sarcasm, im asking because i really dont know.
I believe that they drop the support of 2.1 when they finish the APS series (that dont have new drivers from i dont remember when)
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1325 posts since 1 Sep, 2004
OK. Thats about the format so far.
But please, when can we get an *usefull WORKING extension" for our *existing* soundfonts for a productive "on the fly" usage?
No matter what format or trick this will be...
Or have we furthermore to import and remap cumbersome our sounds into samplers for a long long time, just like before?
@René:
Do you really think, that the text editor to hack your sfz format is the right tool for musicans?
Sorry, but this merely shows your missing backgrounds... Not everybady is such a good "code hacker" like you, you know? This is highly inproductive in a real working situation.
Is there anyone around here, who is able to give us finally a working and musically senseful soundfont player/editor with the requested extended features and musically intuitive access and keeping the sharing possibility ???
Thats finally the point.
And I am sure, this would be highly apreciated.
We need a "real" useful soundfont tool (rather than a rudimentary soundfont player with the common legacy AWE features) to extend our creative possibilities easiely.
We need at least more useful modulation possibilities for Velocity, Aftertouch and Modulation Wheel.
And we need a different layer crossfading possibility.
This would be *MILENIUM STEPS* in the right direction so far!
Is this too much?
Thank you.
.
But please, when can we get an *usefull WORKING extension" for our *existing* soundfonts for a productive "on the fly" usage?
No matter what format or trick this will be...
Or have we furthermore to import and remap cumbersome our sounds into samplers for a long long time, just like before?
@René:
Do you really think, that the text editor to hack your sfz format is the right tool for musicans?
Sorry, but this merely shows your missing backgrounds... Not everybady is such a good "code hacker" like you, you know? This is highly inproductive in a real working situation.
Is there anyone around here, who is able to give us finally a working and musically senseful soundfont player/editor with the requested extended features and musically intuitive access and keeping the sharing possibility ???
Thats finally the point.
And I am sure, this would be highly apreciated.
We need a "real" useful soundfont tool (rather than a rudimentary soundfont player with the common legacy AWE features) to extend our creative possibilities easiely.
We need at least more useful modulation possibilities for Velocity, Aftertouch and Modulation Wheel.
And we need a different layer crossfading possibility.
This would be *MILENIUM STEPS* in the right direction so far!
Is this too much?
Thank you.
.
Last edited by useruseruser on Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- KVRAF
- 7316 posts since 7 Mar, 2003
Er... it really isn't that important.jackle&hyde wrote:!!! IMPORTANT !!!
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1325 posts since 1 Sep, 2004
Maybe not for you.Acolmiztli wrote:Er... it really isn't that important.jackle&hyde wrote:!!! IMPORTANT !!!
-
- KVRAF
- 7316 posts since 7 Mar, 2003
Correct.jackle&hyde wrote:Maybe not for you.Acolmiztli wrote:Er... it really isn't that important.jackle&hyde wrote:!!! IMPORTANT !!!
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters
-
- KVRist
- 78 posts since 9 Nov, 2004
i'm very new to music production and arrangemtn but i personally find that it's how the sound is sampled in sf2 format. not really if it is out of date or not. i have moved on to other sample formats but i'm still using sf2 for a few library which i find is pretty neat.
-
- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
I have the Win XP drivers installed for my old soundblaster live card and this support at least playback of soundfont 2.1Ole, is Emu supporting sf2.1 in their emulatorX products? Are Audigy series supporting it?
Is not sarcasm, im asking because i really dont know.
I believe that they drop the support of 2.1 when they finish the APS series (that dont have new drivers from i dont remember when)
And i´m pretty shure that the Audigy cards do as well.
You can do SO many more things with SF 2.1
-
- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
By the way updated EMU the APS drivers for XP for about a year ago.
http://www.emu.com/support/aps.asp
http://www.emu.com/support/aps.asp
-
- KVRAF
- 2988 posts since 11 Apr, 2001
No, I don't. I do think it's a good tool for Sound Designers. As I previously stated, I don't think musicians have to do the job of looping, mapping and editing thousands of wav files for each instruments they want to play. That's not their job. Musicians must create... music.@René:
Do you really think, that the text editor to hack your sfz format is the right tool for musicans?
Missing backgrounds in what? In music? I would love to know...Sorry, but this merely shows your missing backgrounds... Not everybady is such a good "code hacker" like you, you know? This is highly inproductive in a real working situation.
"Inproductive" judged by whom? by you? If so, what shoes would you wear? Sound Designer's? Musician? Do-It-All-Wannabe?
-René
-
- Banned
- 4073 posts since 15 Mar, 2004
It sure makes sense to me. I would pay a heap of money to buy a decent all-in-one 'Vienna-like' soundfont mapper/sample editor/player. It amazes me that no one has done this yet.jackle&hyde wrote:OK. Thats about the format so far.
But please, when can we get an *usefull WORKING extension" for our *existing* soundfonts for a productive "on the fly" usage?
No matter what format or trick this will be...
Or have we furthermore to import and remap cumbersome our sounds into samplers for a long long time, just like before?
@René:
Do you really think, that the text editor to hack your sfz format is the right tool for musicans?
Sorry, but this merely shows your missing backgrounds... Not everybady is such a good "code hacker" like you, you know? This is highly inproductive in a real working situation.
Is there anyone around here, who is able to give us finally a working and musically senseful soundfont player/editor with the requested extended features and musically intuitive access and keeping the sharing possibility ???
Thats finally the point.
And I am sure, this would be highly apreciated.
We need a "real" useful soundfont tool (rather than a rudimentary soundfont player with the common legacy AWE features) to extend our creative possibilities easiely.
We need at least more useful modulation possibilities for Velocity, Aftertouch and Modulation Wheel.
And we need a different layer crossfading possibility.
This would be *MILENIUM STEPS* in the right direction so far!
Is this too much?
Thank you.
.
Vienna is OK but what serious musician/DAW user really wants to use a Soundblaster/Creative poorly supported cheap bozo toy for kids in their state-of-the-art DAW?
Anyway, sure there's limitations, but I cannot find any really overly critical limitations in the SF2 spec, so I believe it has a lot of life yet and it's a great common format with thousands of good fonts available for free - which many of us use regularly.
So it's just weirdness incarnate.