Are AI-Generated Songs Ethical? Let's Talk About It.

[Tiles]

Else AI makers would have been long sued then.

There are several lawsuits, many that directly concern copyright infringement, against AI developers: https://sustainabletechpartner.com/topi ... -timeline/

And not a single one successful

[justin3am]

But what if (as you say), a chatbot "helped" by providing a rhyme for two lines of lyrics and a chord progression that simply helped resolve a suspended chord to a major chord—or merely explained the Circle of Fifths to the writer, who then was able to finish the piece by himself? Would you still suggest they find someone else to record/mix/master it for them?

I'm not challenging you; I'm just curious to see if there's a limit as to how much the person had to write, compared to how much the chatbot "wrote". I probably wouldn't be too happy recording a completely AI-generated track (especially since a sufficiently advanced AI wouldn't even need anyone to "record, mix, or master" anything).

I haven't written anything from an AI's suggestion, and apart from the chord progression I asked for (again, out of curiosity), I haven't asked AI to help with any composing. I don't plan to, either.

Steve

I have other rules in my studio, like no smoking. I've had clients test those rules and ask where the boundaries are. In some cases I felt like they were just being rude or contrary, so I asked them to leave. In other cases, I felt like they were just trying to find a bit of comfort in a situation that can be stressful or anxiety inducing, so we found a compromise (it's okay to smoke outside, in the front, away from the door).

I'm not going to ask in most cases but if a client comes to me and says they used a chatbot or something to help them, I'd likely try to gauge where they were coming from. If they are just trying to find my boundaries, I'd ask them to find another person to work with.

I'm very lucky to be able to choose my clients. Many audio workers don't have the luxury. I'm sure if I was doing more work with corporate radio, commercials or training videos, I'd be working with a lot of people who are using AI in different ways, or maybe I wouldn't be working at all. I hope I'm able to continue to get work. Luckily I work in a way that seems in demand now. I use a lot of old fashioned techniques and there is an obvious human touch. I'm optimistic that there are people who are still looking for that human touch.

[ROTMetro]

AI does not steal. It also does not rely on a "database". That's not how AI works. It learns. Like you. Well not exactly like you. It's a super musician, knowing all songs made, knowing all instruments. And knowing what song is mainstream and what songs makes people happy. Hard to beat.

What it cannot do though is to have the mood that you had when you wrote your songs.

With the right prompts people can get AI to 'generate' exact copies of works for writing AI, if just fragments. That's not learning. It doesn't learn. It regurgitates back averages PURELY dependant on the underlying works it was 'trained' on. That's theft. Suno's 'tool' is dependant on other peoples works in order to be useful. That Suno blends together so many people's works you can't hold them accountable doesn't change that. If I train a model on 1 song, I get output that is obvious theft. If I train on millions, I get output that is still theft, just less obvious. If I train a human on one song, I can get output that isn't obvious theft.

[ROTMetro]

See the post above to understand how creative people do use it effectively.

Just a shortcut without growth.

You seem to be upset that some people will achieve something without going through the hard work you feel you put in, and that it's detrimental to them.

Two points:

1) They don't care. If they wanted to go through the 'growth' then that's their choice.

2) Most of us already live in a society that is far easier and flexible to choose how we proceed than ever before. It's not the difficulty of the journey that 'builds' us - it's having the freedom to choose our destiny. If that is using AI for some, then that is fine.

Don't expect other people to want (or need) to live by your expectations of how things 'should' be done. You can choose for yourself, but you have no right to tell people how they should (or shouldn't) achieve their creativity - everyone is free to be creative in their own way.

Creativity - The ability to create.

Nothing in the definition states 'how'.

I don't think people are upset. I don't get upset when someone eats McDonalds. I just don't care to hear about their culinary experience nor think it's worth hearing about. I don't care to hear AI. If you want to do the equivalent of watching porn at home but for music making because you enjoy it, have fun. I just don't want to hear it.

If I enter prompts into PornHub and consume some porn, I didn't have sex. If I enter some prompts into Suno and consume it's output, I didn't make music. If I enter prompts into the McDonald's app and eat, I didn't make food. Imagine in these cases claiming 'check out this pornhub video of me having sex' or 'check out this burger, fries, and soda I made'. Doesn't matter the details and care you put into using the McDonalds app/pornhub search, you would be ridiculed.

[revvy]

Mate, that post would probably read better if you ran it through Chat GPT first. Tidy it up a bit.



joking

[enroe]

If I enter prompts into PornHub and consume some porn, I didn't have sex. If I enter some prompts into Suno and consume it's output, I didn't make music. If I enter prompts into the McDonald's app and eat, I didn't make food. Imagine in these cases claiming 'check out this pornhub video of me having sex' or 'check out this burger, fries, and soda I made'. Doesn't matter the details and care you put into using the McDonalds app/pornhub search, you would be ridiculed.

"ROTMetro" may sound a bit drastic or even vulgar with these
comparisons - but at its core, he hits the point:

When someone creates a song via prompt, it's a purely mechanistic
algorithmic process—without any creativity of their own—indeed,
without any effort on their part. The AI creates a song from the millions
of elements according to its learned algorithm. Formulating a prompt
like "Create me a song that captures the morning mood with groove
and drive" can never be considered musically creative input.

Because everything is missing: the feeling of playing a part on the
guitar, the immersion into a universe of emotions when developing a
vocal melody, even the thrill of developing a staccato line in the editor.
Every musical and human emotion is missing.

The AI in song composition destroys the music, and it does this in a
quite sustainable way.

Anyone who says that the commercial majors have long since
destroyed music fails to recognize that these majors still employ
composers and instrumentalists to create and optimize their songs.
With AI, however, a fundamentally different, superior player is now
entering the scene.

Anyone who says they prefer to use AI in the studio, for example, to
compose an intro or a bridge, with the justification "I'm just faster
then, and time is money!", has already succumbed to AI in their
faintheartedness and will almost exclusively use AI in the future – like a
junkie who only "knows" AI und who is dependent on AI.

Unfortunately, there's no happy ending to this story: On the big stage
of music, AI will take over the compositional part in the future,
because it's faster, more perfect, and more pleasing. It may
constantly regurgitate what's already there, but that makes it very
perfect. And that's what the masses, the many listeners, want.

[guitarzan]

I fed the OP to BoredHumans lyrics generator… it wrote a little song about it—goes somethin’ like this…

**Mechanical Muse**

In the twilight's glow, where the shadows dance,
I stumbled on a tool, gave the world a chance,
Claude whispered my secrets, Suno spun the thread,
Two songs born in the ether, they shimmered and bled.

Oh, "Detroit Dreamer," on a hustler's street,
And "Fountain of Youth," where the lost souls meet,
But I pondered deep in the night’s silver light,
If I didn’t write a line, could it still feel right?

Is it cheating, my friend, or just a new fire?
A weaving of electrons, a pulse in the wire,
Do the chords still hold magic, or do they just chill?
When machines start to sing, do we lose our free will?

I hear melodies gliding through the wires and the code,
But who walks the high road, when the deep river flowed?
Can creation be harnessed, yet still hold its breath?
Or do we sign on the line, inked with digital death?

Oh, drowning in pixels, yet thirsty for air,
It's a funhouse reflection, a truth we all share,
Have you tasted this nectar, or danced with the muse?
As the world blurs together, what path do we choose?

So let’s gather together, with hearts open wide,
In the glow of the screen, let honesty bide,
For music’s a heartbeat, an echo of time,
Whether crafted by fingers or non-human rhyme.

Mechanical Muse compressed.m4a

[ghettosynth]

^^^Awesome, for some definition of the word awesome.

I gave it (your version of the song) to ChatGPT with my super secret instructions and fully customized system prompt and this is what it came up with:

The Ballad o' the Mechanical Muse
(To be roared with fists on the table and ale on the breath)

In the flicker o’ dusk, where the circuits hum low,
I met meself muse in a binary glow,
Ol’ Claude took me secrets and whispered ‘em sweet,
While Suno spun tunes with a devilish beat.

CHORUS:
Oh sing, ya Detroit Dreamer, ya hustlin' brute,
And you, Fountain of Youth, in yer digital suit!
But I sat in the dark, with a pint and a sigh,
Thinkin’, “Christ, did I write it, or just pass it by?”

Is it cheatin’ or changin’, this fiery spark?
Or dancin’ with ghosts in the ol’ datastream dark?
Do these chords cast a spell or just mimic the thrill?
When the wires start singin’, who’s got the quill?

I hear songs in the socket, sweet notes in the fan,
But who forged the river—machine or the man?
Can ya bottle a soul in a byte or a breath,
Or just sign away songs on the scrolls of death?

CHORUS:
Oh sing, ya Detroit Dreamer, ya neon-lit liar,
And you, Fountain of Youth, on yer algorithm choir!
But I banged on me chest and I yelled at the skies,
“Will the music still weep when the last singer dies?”

Now I’m drowndin’ in pixels, but parched just the same,
Ain’t a drop o’ real whiskey in this digital game,
Have ya danced with that muse who don’t bleed, don’t bruise?
She’ll sing ye sweet nothin’s and leave ye confused!

So raise up yer glasses, ye rogues and ye shams,
To the ghost in the code and the soul in our hands!
For music’s a heartbeat, it don’t care who plays—
Just keep truth in yer tankard and sing through the haze!

FINAL CHORUS:
Oh sing, ya Detroit Dreamer, ya code-born delight,
And you, Fountain of Youth, in the pale pixel light!
Whether flesh writes the lines or the wire wears the shoes—
We'll still bellow the ballads o' the Mechanical Muse!

[Paulieworld]

I have never used AI… that I was aware of. I enjoy it too much to share! However, from a purely business point of view, it makes really good sense. If a business venture needs some music for a project, why bother with expensive recording studios and temperamental artists. Just enter a few prompts and… bingo, problem solved.

I grew up listening to Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Elvis, Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Humble Pie, Genesis, etc. I saw all of them live in concert. Going to concerts was a big thing for my generation. I don’t follow current music, but I think things have changed. I miss buying a vinyl album and bringing it home, opening the plastic wrap, and putting it on the turntable, turning on the black light and smoking a doobie. Do kids still do that these days?

We didn’t have cell phones. Kids weren’t glued to their devices. We were too busy getting together and having parties in the basement. I feel sad for young people these days. They are missing so much.

Anyway, I discovered making music on this iPad and I’m reliving my childhood. However, I miss getting the band together and giggling in shabby rock clubs for twenty bucks. It was never about the money.

I’m an old fart, retiring soon. Any other old farts out there?

[pekbro]

The AIs are fun to play with, I particularly enjoy having them compose rap songs based on whatever I prefer, like a rap song about golf. I make these at work sometimes for a quick laugh with my non-musical coworkers.

That’s about it.

[ghettosynth]

The AIs are fun to play with, I particularly enjoy having them compose rap songs based on whatever I prefer, like a rap song about golf. I make these at work sometimes for a quick laugh with my non-musical coworkers.

That’s about it.

If you haven't seen it: "I glued my balls to my a**hole again"

[pekbro]

The AIs are fun to play with, I particularly enjoy having them compose rap songs based on whatever I prefer, like a rap song about golf. I make these at work sometimes for a quick laugh with my non-musical coworkers.

That’s about it.

If you haven't seen it: "I glued my balls to my a**hole again"

Indeed that was impressive, also the song pooping on company time, that came up in the same search.

That’s right folks, you can not have a serious discussion here without the riffraff stepping in to degrade things… (speaking for myself of course)

[Zombie Queen]

I gave it (your version of the song) to ChatGPT with my super secret instructions and fully customized system prompt

It looks like ChatGPT can count syllables!? Last time I was checking it out, AI just couldn't do it. Did you need any special instructions to make it so?

[Tiles]

AI does not steal. It also does not rely on a "database". That's not how AI works. It learns. Like you. Well not exactly like you. It's a super musician, knowing all songs made, knowing all instruments. And knowing what song is mainstream and what songs makes people happy. Hard to beat.

What it cannot do though is to have the mood that you had when you wrote your songs.

With the right prompts people can get AI to 'generate' exact copies of works for writing AI, if just fragments. That's not learning. It doesn't learn. It regurgitates back averages PURELY dependant on the underlying works it was 'trained' on. That's theft. Suno's 'tool' is dependant on other peoples works in order to be useful. That Suno blends together so many people's works you can't hold them accountable doesn't change that. If I train a model on 1 song, I get output that is obvious theft. If I train on millions, I get output that is still theft, just less obvious. If I train a human on one song, I can get output that isn't obvious theft.

So we are all thieves.I am trained at eighties post punk music

I can just repeat, there is no technical way that AI can steal work. AI does not work that way.

[Bunny_boy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckrrr8yelzvo

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cedgzj8z1wjo

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... against-ai