Software vs. Analog in 2025 – Has the Balance Shifted?

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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Has digital finally dethroned analog?

Yes, software has clearly taken the lead
22
31%
No, analog still holds its ground
17
24%
About 50/50 - I balance both worlds
4
6%
Not sure, it's context-dependent
1
1%
Doesn’t matter. It’s about results, not tools
26
37%
 
Total votes: 70

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Gamma-UT wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 2:17 pm
dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 2:03 pm
Gamma-UT wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 1:23 pm
dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 1:07 pm LOL! "obsessed with smoothness"!
Is that how I come across here? :lol:
Life is too short to be "obsessed with smoothness"! :lol:
And yet, here you are.
Yep, sitting here with my digital Kurzweil K2700 as a controller for my laptop with VSTs on it. A pair of Presonus monitors and a USB audio interface and headphones. My current setup. No "smooth" analog stuff at all. Completely in the box.
I don't think I'd quite be as strident about boasting about how anything explained to you goes, figuratively, in one ear and out the other utterly unimpeded.

Need I repeat what I actually wrote (not that I don't expect you to ignore it completely like everything else)?

"obsessed with smoothness as a differentiator".

Not to mention that I thought I explained that digital synths are just as smooth. As are USB interfaces into headphones. But that nuance, it seems, completely passed you by.
You actually said "why are you so obsessed with smoothness as being the key differentiator?" I have no idea what this supposed to mean, so how can I reply to it? I originally made a jokey remark about "jaggy lightning bolts" that has turned into this nonsense. This was in reply that electricity is not smooth. But we both know that AC current is first rectified using diodes and then smoothed using capacitors. It is further smoothed as it travels round a circuit by other components as required. As for "stepiness", this was referring to ancient digital synths like the Korg M1. Here is an AI response about "stepiness"...............

AI Overview
Old digital synthesizers can exhibit "stepiness" and aliasing due to the limitations of their digital signal processing. Stepiness refers to the noticeable, quantized nature of the sound, especially noticeable in parameters like pitch or filter cutoff when changing rapidly. Aliasing, a form of distortion, occurs when the digital representation of a signal doesn't accurately capture its higher frequencies, leading to the introduction of unwanted, lower-frequency tones.
Stepiness:

Quantization:
Digital synths use discrete steps to represent values like voltage or frequency. When these steps are large (due to low resolution or sample rate), changes in sound can be perceived as discrete jumps rather than smooth transitions, resulting in stepiness.
Example:
Imagine a filter cutoff frequency being controlled by a low-resolution potentiometer. As you turn the knob, the filter frequency might jump between a few distinct values instead of smoothly gliding, creating a noticeable "step" in the sound.

Aliasing:

Nyquist Frequency:
In digital audio, the Nyquist frequency is half the sampling rate. Any frequency component above the Nyquist frequency cannot be accurately represented and will be aliased.
How it happens:
When a digital synth tries to generate a high-frequency tone (e.g., a sawtooth wave with a lot of high harmonics), some of those harmonics might exceed the Nyquist frequency and get folded back down into the audible range, creating unwanted lower-frequency tones that weren't part of the original signal.
Example:
A digital synth generating a high-frequency sine wave might produce a tone with added lower-frequency harmonics due to aliasing, making the sound less pure and potentially harsh.

Solutions and Workarounds:

Higher Sampling Rates:
Using higher sampling rates (e.g., 96kHz or 192kHz instead of 44.1kHz) increases the Nyquist frequency and reduces the likelihood of aliasing.

Oversampling:
Some synthesizers internally oversample the signal (e.g., 4x or 8x) before processing it, which effectively increases the Nyquist frequency and reduces aliasing.
Anti-Aliasing Filters:
These filters are used to attenuate high frequencies before they reach the digital conversion stage, reducing the amount of aliasing that occurs.
Analog Modeling:
Some plugins and synths aim to emulate the imperfections of analog circuits, which can mask the harshness of digital artifacts like aliasing.
Careful Sound Design:
By understanding how aliasing and stepiness occur, sound designers can choose waveforms and modulation techniques that minimize these effects or even use them creatively.

In essence, stepiness and aliasing are inherent limitations of early digital synthesis, but understanding their causes allows for clever workarounds and even creative applications.

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dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:08 pm You actually said "why are you so obsessed with smoothness as being the key differentiator?"
And this makes a difference because...?

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Gamma-UT wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:10 pm
dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:08 pm You actually said "why are you so obsessed with smoothness as being the key differentiator?"
And this makes a difference because...?
Because "the" is the definite article, and "a" is an indefinite article. In Grammar they matter. And if we quote ourselves we should do it accurately, do you agree?

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dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:17 pm
Gamma-UT wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:10 pm
dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:08 pm You actually said "why are you so obsessed with smoothness as being the key differentiator?"
And this makes a difference because...?
Because "the" is the definite article, and "a" is an indefinite article. In Grammar they matter. And if we quote ourselves we should do it accurately, do you agree?
And the practical difference in that case, given you don't seem to understand either form, is...?

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Gamma-UT wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 12:26 pm
dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 12:07 pm
Gamma-UT wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 10:51 am

No digital synth or computer ever generated "steps" at its output:
Who said that? Not me. I have never posted anything about "steps" at output.
If that’s the case, why are you so obsessed with smoothness as being the key differentiator? You can’t have it both ways.
It's not about the output... if a digital osc is used to do filterFM of a digital filter and it generates lots of aliasing, a developer will limit that by adding more "steps". The sample rate at which DSP is calculated makes a difference.

And yes, that is a key differentiator compared to analog where an analog osc doing filterFM on an analog filter has no "steps".

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dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:17 pm And if we quote ourselves we should do it accurately, do you agree?
Yes, maybe you should. Your initial use of "smooth" which indicates your original claim had sod all to do with filter stepping specifically:
viewtopic.php?p=9105887#p9105887

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pdxindy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:31 pm
Gamma-UT wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 12:26 pm
dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 12:07 pm
Gamma-UT wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 10:51 am

No digital synth or computer ever generated "steps" at its output:
Who said that? Not me. I have never posted anything about "steps" at output.
If that’s the case, why are you so obsessed with smoothness as being the key differentiator? You can’t have it both ways.
It's not about the output... if a digital osc is used to do filterFM of a digital filter and it generates lots of aliasing, a developer will limit that by adding more "steps". The sample rate at which DSP is calculated makes a difference.

And yes, that is a key differentiator compared to analog where an analog osc doing filterFM on an analog filter has no "steps".
I see you paid no attention to the earlier part of the discussion. Otherwise, this might actually be relevant.

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Gamma-UT wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:32 pm
dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:17 pm And if we quote ourselves we should do it accurately, do you agree?
Yes, maybe you should. Your initial use of "smooth" which indicates your original claim had sod all to do with filter stepping specifically:
viewtopic.php?p=9105887#p9105887
Of course my mention of "smooth" was to do with stepping. Digital stepping versus analogue non stepping. I could only have been referencing something like the Korg M1, because a purpose of this thread is to argue that "stepiness" has not only been eliminated in modern software synths, but is now the equal to, or superior to analogue. Do you agree that modern software synths have overcome the "stepiness" of earlier digital synths?

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Analog Will Tear Us Apart, again
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dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:52 pm Of course my mention of "smooth" was to do with stepping. Digital stepping versus analogue non stepping. I could only have been referencing something like the Korg M1, because a purpose of this thread is to argue that "stepiness" has not only been eliminated in modern software synths, but is now the equal to, or superior to analogue. Do you agree that modern software synths have overcome the "stepiness" of earlier digital synths?
Oh boy.
dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 10:29 am ...my understanding is that the rough electricity is progressively "smoothed" by various components as it travels around a circuit.
As I pointed out earlier, this is not how analogue circuits work.

It's funny watching you retcon this into "of course I meant filter stepping specifically in digital synths and is totally not present in DCOs/DCFs". But at some point you are going to have to pick a position and stick to it.
Last edited by Gamma-UT on Wed Jul 23, 2025 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 5:22 pm
whyterabbyt wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:46 pm
dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 4:08 pm Here is an AI response
seriously, dont do that. its a parody of providing evidence that you know what you're talking about.
Yes, I know, I just put it up for everyone to pick apart.
And yet you proceeded to run with the bits about filter stepping. How strange.

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My over 3000 synths never get out of tune or broken. Latest month I had to repair my MatrixBrute and my Poly 12. As an amateur it costs me a leg. Also the shipment of synths to repair center is hard as hell. Never faced problems with moog and sequential but lately got lot of problems with Arturia and Behringer. Hardware has become to much time consuming and money for me.

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dellboy wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 9:19 am
zerocrossing wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 3:13 am
And voltage isn’t smooth.
Confirmed, lightning bolts are sharp and jaggy.

If the electricity is not reasonable smooth inside your analog synths, I recommend that you buy better quality synths with diodes and capacitors in the circuit to smooth out the jagginess.
You could also record them digitally and use a reconstruction filter to smooth out any hard edges.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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Will there ever be a vintage VST renaissance / hype?


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HAL76 wrote: Thu Jul 24, 2025 7:59 pm Will there ever be a vintage VST renaissance / hype?

Oh my! THAT is super retro.
Dunno how many years I didn't see those GUIs.
The humble beginnings...
ABX is enemy to GAS

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