Real amps vs modelling and plugin amps

[Uncle E]

Hendrix can only be played properly if you’re on acid.

Have you ever been experienced?

[zerocrossing]

Hendrix can only be played properly if you’re on acid.

Have you ever been experienced?

I have.

[Naillerz78]

If this was true , then devs wouldnt be releasing new generations of amp sims like crazy every few years since with new tech still trying to make it more “real” ? Neural networks. Machine learning. Profiling , better IRs, Fluid IRs , yada yada.

It's called marketing, bro.

So you’re sayin they are just Repackaging the same old tech for the past decade ? Hmm funny that’s what I thought also. Same sound better graphics imo.

I’ll come at it a different way . If amp sims matched real amps in every way we’d all be playing modelling combo amps. As it’s 100 amps in one for the price of 1 tube amp(or less). And tube amps would now be dead old tech. But we ain’t.
Cos they companies haven’t got it to come out of a combo speaker feeling or sounding the same yet.

Whack it on a DI track, layer it, EQ the sh1t out of it and put it in a busy mix..yeah sure. Maybe small difference if one can detect. Depends on skill at production. That’s kinda a whole other set of skills but.

Side by side IRL in a room it’s still easy to tell.
That’s why some folks cycle through units +FRFR speakers tryna get it sounding and reacting “real”.

[zerocrossing]

Good thing tube amp makers aren't ever making new models of tube amps.

[YnJ]

It's kind of like the Dunning Kruger effect, there's a lot of people thinking if they can't tell the difference, there is no difference

To be fair, you can't make a combo with a single speaker sound like an amp with a 4x12 cab, despite most of the modelling combos having 4x12 cab simulations. There's a difference between a Marshall Code combo and a Marshall Code amphead going through a 4x12 cab, despite being the same exact amp. They both sound crap, at least the amphead sounds like a crap amp actually going through a 4x12. Another thing is that all the modelling amps and plugins with multiple amp models, end up with all the amps sound pretty much almost the same after you get over the initial illusion of actually playing different amps, just with differences in gain and EQ. They never sound, or work, like the amps they are supposed to emulate either. Some might have a recognisable similarity at best, others have absolutely nothing in common with the actual amp. IRs at least sound different, and quality IRs actually sound at least similar to the cab and speakers they are made from. they are still not quite like the real thing yet though

[Uncle E]

Bad Cat had an amp that used IR’s tuned to work with its speakers, and weren’t meant for DI. That was an interesting concept.

Line 6 had the AmpliFi, which was like a HiFi stereo system with a guitar amp built-in. It was true stereo, too, and had a stereo aux input on the back that bypassed the guitar amp. That worked really well with IR’s and I loved it for ambient stuff, but I sold it because I prefer my tube power amp for straight ahead amp sounds. I usually bypass the Tonex cabinet because the 15” speaker I’m using sounds great on its own.

[YnJ]

I tried the Marshall Code 100 amphead with the cab sim turned off once, as it was going through a real cab anyway. It sounded awful, like a plugin amp with no cab sim or IR. Some of the plugin amps I tried with both the cab and power amp bypassed running through a real poweramp and cab, using the OMEC pedal you recommended to me, actually sounded quite good though

[Uncle E]

Yes, agreed. The Code isn’t good.

[Naillerz78]

It's kind of like the Dunning Kruger effect, there's a lot of people thinking if they can't tell the difference, there is no difference

Yes. Definitely.

Another thing is that all the modelling amps and plugins with multiple amp models, end up with all the amps sound pretty much almost the same after you get over the initial illusion of actually playing different amps, just with differences in gain and EQ. They never sound, or work, like the amps they are supposed to emulate either. Some might have a recognisable similarity at best, others have absolutely nothing in common with the actual amp.

Exactly . I found this also testing through many sims one after the other. Each brand has its own signature sound or EQ to it.. and that base tonality across all the amps. It’s like a visual-audio trick going on or something. The ears perceive to hear what the eyes are seeing in the GUI . The fancy graphics and amp heads changing. But there is not much of a difference in tonality just more or less gain, a bit of EQ etc . after much testing and comparing back and forth the penny dropped for me twas all a bit of a trick.

I suspected there was no ‘painstaking amp modelling’ going on at dev HQ at all (!) as usually touted.

I lol’d at this the other day messing with Kuassa 360 - the GUI for the preset was showing a complex 3 amps + 3 cabs routing plus heaps of fx boxes and about 50 knobs on the screen. But the preset sound was absolute digital dogsh1t.
It was no better than the much older rougher stuff from 10-15 years ago.

[Uncle E]

I lol’d at this the other day messing with Kuassa 360 - the GUI for the preset was showing a complex 3 amps + 3 cabs routing plus heaps of fx boxes and about 50 knobs on the screen. But the preset sound was absolute digital dogsh1t.
It was no better than the much older rougher stuff from 10-15 years ago.

It loads NAM captures. It can sound any way you want it to sound.

[Naillerz78]

I lol’d at this the other day messing with Kuassa 360 - the GUI for the preset was showing a complex 3 amps + 3 cabs routing plus heaps of fx boxes and about 50 knobs on the screen. But the preset sound was absolute digital dogsh1t.
It was no better than the much older rougher stuff from 10-15 years ago.

It loads NAM captures. It can sound any way you want it to sound.

Yes I remember you (?) previously posted a pic with NAM installed. Great idea. Trying that setup today

[tapper mike]

I've got a Zoom GX1ON collecting dust in the corner and it always sounded like arse to my ears. I've had plenty of bad sims from days gone by with crappy effects that were noisey as heck. No one is going to tell me I can't tell the difference between those older models and the more recent ones being produced from industry leaders. I've also played my fair share of crappy tube, psuedo tobe and solid state amps.

Yes you can get bad amp sounds from modern and old amps.

[Uncle E]

Yes I remember you (?) previously posted a pic with NAM installed. Great idea. Trying that setup today

We're spoilt for choice. Too many options to keep track of. Today, I was excited that Genome got a free bloom reverb (among other things), and then I remembered that AmpliTube already has two bloom reverbs, and then I remembered that I can run Genome and AmpliTube together to get all three bloom reverbs together.

[electro]

That AXIOM 2 by Bluecat also loads NAM Captures and can act as a VST chainer hosting other sims like Overloud TH-U and Amplitube

I lol’d at this the other day messing with Kuassa 360 - the GUI for the preset was showing a complex 3 amps + 3 cabs routing plus heaps of fx boxes and about 50 knobs on the screen. But the preset sound was absolute digital dogsh1t.
It was no better than the much older rougher stuff from 10-15 years ago.

It loads NAM captures. It can sound any way you want it to sound.

[Naillerz78]

Spent 2 hours mucking around with a few sims today (no NAM tho unfortunately)
Grrr! Tbh ..this being tethered to the laptop, either with headphones or monitors, plus all the clicking ..is just not a fun time!
I need to be standing and moving, throwing guitar hero shapes with the music..with a big 10 or 12” speaker pumping out tones.
not sitting and clicking and tangled in cables lol.

Came across an interesting comment on digital gain on this reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guitar/comment ... _sims_and/


NickiChaos
“I don't like digital amps when using any kind of gain.The gain saturation on a tube amp peaks and valleys as the signal moves through it which sounds very natural to me.
With digital, there's no peaks and valleys in gain saturation. It just sounds gunned all the time and as result, just sounds sterile “.

Is this correct?
I definitely relate to that.
And leads to why the metal genre seems to be the biggest market for sims tbh.

Then I drove to work , listening to Brown Sugar by the stones at full blast . What great guitar sounds. Can sims really get tones that.. “chewy”? IDK but I haven’t found em.
Keefs rig on that was a cranked fender twin afaik.
@3:51


If someone can pls record and post for me