Coming Soon: The Relab 176 (Retro 175) Tube Compressor/ Limiter

[vitocorleone123]

Yes it's heavy, but no challenge running multiple instances on M1 Max despite warnings to the contrary on sign up. It may be super authentic, but I've not got the hardware to compare. Thankfully it didn't grab me by the GAS as I guess the price will also be heavy.

Relab will post comparisons.

I don’t have the hardware either, and I can hear the difference between this and pretty much every other software compressor in how it behaves.

I do have a hardware G bus comp clone, and the Relab behaves more like it than plugins.

[jens]

I went into this with a completely eyerolling cynicism. Every new compressor seems to have the same "but this is different" schtick.

But I have to say this sounds absolutely amazing.

I have a real 1178 and the relab 176 really just has that kind of edge to it. I know they're different compressors but the 176 just has mountains of character like the 1178 has.

It's an absolute CPU hog but holy crap is it impressive.

So what you are saying is that this vari-mu emulation sounds closer to your hardware FET 1178 (i.e. basically a two-channel H(arman)-revision 1176) than any of the UAD 1176 emulations and it sounds nothing like the UAD 176 emulation?

Wow - this component modelling seems to be some really amazingly capable tech indeed!

[kraster]

I went into this with a completely eyerolling cynicism. Every new compressor seems to have the same "but this is different" schtick.

But I have to say this sounds absolutely amazing.

I have a real 1178 and the relab 176 really just has that kind of edge to it. I know they're different compressors but the 176 just has mountains of character like the 1178 has.

It's an absolute CPU hog but holy crap is it impressive.

So what you are saying is that this vari-mu emulation sounds closer to your hardware FET 1178 (i.e. basically a two-channel H(arman)-revision 1176) than any of the UAD 1176 emulations and it sounds nothing like the UAD 176 emulation?

Wow - this component modelling seems to be some really amazingly capable tech indeed!

"I know they're different compressors but the 176 just has mountains of character like the 1178 has."

Did you miss this bit?

I didn't say it had the same character but that hardware compressors like the 176 or 1178 have a lot of character where a lot of plugins don't. They'll emulate the basic performance but miss out on the weirdness.

[jens]

That makes a lot less sense than you appear to assume it does...

[bmanic]

I think I get what kraster is trying to say here but it isn't easy to put into words.

Having done a lot of shootouts with various hardware compressors and still deciding to go fully ITB / digital more than a decade ago, I do notice what is "missing". It's a certain "integrity of the original signal" that sometimes gets lost with plugins whereas the harmonic content created with hardware compressors somehow makes up for the smashed sound. It's quite noticeable with very fast timing settings, so basically the quintessential 1176/1178 settings used on most things.

I also notice this same thing when comparing a chain of analogue stomp boxes versus a chain of plugin stomp boxes. It very quickly becomes quite different. The analogue chain has it's own problems with noise and tonality oddities but the signal feels "correct" when you land at the settings you want.. whereas in plugin land you can struggle forever even when you've matched the tonality and feel, you still end up with something that sounds just little bit "off".

I know, I'm rambling non-coherent things here. In short: To my ears, there definitely is a thing that can be described as "it sounds like a plugin". This Relab 176 is doing an absolutely amazing job of not sounding like a plugin. It's in the same category as some of the best Softube, UA, DMG Audio, Cytomic etc plugins.. and funnily enough, some of those AI captures. Is it on a higher level than all of those? No, not in my opinion. Is it of extremely high quality/fidelity? Yes, definitely.

Maybe this general vibe of "hardware sound" is what kraster is trying to be explained here.

[jens]

I think I get what kraster is trying to say here but it isn't easy to put into words.

Yes, I get it too.

Why might it be hard to put into words?


I think I might have an idea.


ABX for the win - but of course no-one wants to do that.

[bmanic]

I think I get what kraster is trying to say here but it isn't easy to put into words.

Yes, I get it too.

Why might it be hard to put into words?


I think I might have an idea.


ABX for the win - but of course no-one wants to do that.

All good points and very true in most cases. I have however done quite a bit of ABX testing due to the information actually being useful for many projects in the past and some future things under development. So I can quite comfortably say that there is something to all of this, especially compressors. The frustrating part is trying to figure out why and what is happening.

The stomp boxes I can quite confidently say is due to aliasing as it's so hard to get rid of compounding amounts in series.. they have the same issue as heavy handed FM, RM or other audio rate modulations in synths. Surely you can hear the difference with these processes between digital & analogue?

However, when it comes to compressors, I'm not quite sure what is going on. Whatever it is, Relab has done a fantastic job mitigating the issues. I suspect the upcoming Cytomic Glue v2 will be in the same category because Andy's Scream plugin and his Wasp filter are virtually indistinguishable from their hardware counterparts.

[bmanic]

Why might it be hard to put into words?

.. because audio is always hard to describe so that everybody agrees on the exact description. Take for instance the word "Punch". Some people think it's when transients are more separated from the sustain portion and things "just hit harder", aka "envelope changes".. yet some people think it's when everything is a bit more forward sounding (which could be "brighter" or "louder rms), aka harmonic changes or tonality changes.

Or the word "glue". What exactly does that mean when put under the microscope? What actually happens with the audio?

Describing subjective feelings of change of a process is always difficult, yet it doesn't mean that there are no changes happening just because you can't describe them.

[jens]

Why might it be hard to put into words?

.. because audio is always hard to describe so that everybody agrees on the exact description. Take for instance the word "Punch". Some people think it's when transients are more separated from the sustain portion and things "just hit harder", aka "envelope changes".. yet some people think it's when everything is a bit more forward sounding (which could be "brighter" or "louder rms), aka harmonic changes or tonality changes.

Or the word "glue". What exactly does that mean when put under the microscope? What actually happens with the audio?

Describing subjective feelings of change of a process is always difficult, yet it doesn't mean that there are no changes happening just because you can't describe them.

Maybe, it doesn£t really matter.

TBH I find the idea that this new hardware compressor emulation shares some common "analog" traits with some random, very different hardware compressor - and which you don't find in other plugins yet - rather ludicrous to be frank. What would that be? I thought the novel thing about the comp would be that it's a perfect emulation, rather than a 95 or 98% approximation? Why would the missing 2% or 5% be some elusive general "analogueness"? Isn't that just GAS speaking, trying to convince you that these few percents are not only systematically different, but actually really matter musically, rather than being arbitrary and inconsequential deviations?

Doesn't really make sense to me - this appears to be deep in John Vestman territory if you ask me.

ABX for the win.


Oh, and by the way: you said something along the same lines about e.g. the Nebula stuff in the past - and then the Nebula updates that improved the perfect emulations and then the improved improvements of the perfect emulations and then the improvements of the improvements of the improvements - all perfect stuff, which can't hold a candle to this new stuff though.

[Aloysius]

GUI is too shiny

[Ploki]

This is the best analog emulation of a compressor i ever f**king tried, ever.

It’s a new era of plugin design imo.

I’m not easily impressed. You know when you fire it up and play 3 mins with it

[El°HYM]

This is the best analog emulation of a compressor i ever f**king tried, ever.

It’s a new era of plugin design imo.

+1

[dionenoid]

$149 intro price/$129 if you already own something from Relab
$199 normal price

[martinjuenke]

Buy now!

[Vortifex]

I "requested my invitation" and am patiently waiting for a link to arrive by email. I wouldn't usually consider a compressor at that price but the comments got me curious.