Vital - Released

[sempondr]

...I wish he made the same work for Serum...

Did you try to ask him?
Maybe he doesn't know that Serum is available on Splice as rent to own.

[DashOfLime]

So he's got time to do interviews but not to interact with his paying customers on his company forum?

Ok got it......

He's still selling Vital including a Subscription that promises:


Vital 080925.png


Where is the "First Access to new plugins" that are promised? "Subscriber Only Packs"? "Prioritized Support"?

To promise something in order to induce payment and then not deliver is tantamount to fraud.

Nah, to me Matt is not a "cool guy" but if I were to say exactly what I think of him I would most certainly earn a suspension.

Don't bother replying, nothing you can say will change my opinion of him as a business man or as a human being.

It looks like this whole issue with Matt is quite Vital to you

Joke all you want but he's right, it's a shitty thing to be doing continuing to sell a product that clearly has been abandoned.

[liquidsound]

So he's got time to do interviews but not to interact with his paying customers on his company forum?

Ok got it......

He's still selling Vital including a Subscription that promises:


Vital 080925.png


Where is the "First Access to new plugins" that are promised? "Subscriber Only Packs"? "Prioritized Support"?

To promise something in order to induce payment and then not deliver is tantamount to fraud.

Nah, to me Matt is not a "cool guy" but if I were to say exactly what I think of him I would most certainly earn a suspension.

Don't bother replying, nothing you can say will change my opinion of him as a business man or as a human being.

It looks like this whole issue with Matt is quite Vital to you

Joke all you want but he's right, it's a shitty thing to be doing continuing to sell a product that clearly has been abandoned.

He's selling a working synth (not perfect but you can always test/get the free version).
I got the Pro version... He seems to have abbandoned the project... I still use it... Well worth the investment thanks to amazing sound-banks I've got for it...

Bitter to the end? What a joke...

[liquidsound]

...I wish he made the same work for Serum...

Did you try to ask him?
Maybe he doesn't know that Serum is available on Splice as rent to own.

Perhaps with Serum 2 out he could look into that...
He also made some exquisite Hive sound-banks. The guy is really top notch!

[mesamask]

Frankly, I'm not understanding the fuzz.
Of course it's yet another display why subscriptions s**k (for the user), and I agree he shouldn't offer that anymore, as well as ditching that nonsense for any future releases.
But other than for serious financial reasons, I don't get why anyone would opt for that crap in the first place. I bought Pro in release week and don't feel the slightest way he hasn't delivered.
I mean where's the sense in crying for "First Access to new plugins" when there aren't any "new plugins" lol? That stuff.

For anyone whining "he's selling an abandoned product", there's a ton of far worse examples.
The FXpansion company doesn't even exist anymore for years, still they are selling their products as if nothing happened, like i.e. Geist v2 for 180 bucks.
They are even stating on the website:

Will my FXpansion products continue to receive updates?
Yes - the FXpansion team will continue to maintain and upgrade current product lines.

Geist2 hasn't been updated in well more than 5 years, and never will.
That's well more in the realm of being called a "fraud" than anything Matt was and is doing.
FXpansion is just one example.

And to put all that further in perspective:
why isn't anyone going in "ooohh-it's-abandoned-crybaby-mode" when u-he isn't updating their plugins for years?
No matter if it's Diva, Zebra, Hive, etc, they all had spans of 2, 3, 4 years without any updates.
Bazille had a span where it hasn't seen an update for more than 5 years, that's more than the entire lifetime of Vital lmao. I don't think I've ever seen anyone calling u-he a "fraud" company because of it, or did I miss that??
Just like FXpansion above, u-he is just one example.

Lastly, the successor to Vital might be released under a different name, but in whatever form it will appear, I have no doubt it's going to be an awesome piece of software.

[mabian]

Frankly, I'm not understanding the fuzz.
Of course it's yet another display why subscriptions s**k (for the user), and I agree he shouldn't offer that anymore, as well as ditching that nonsense for any future releases.
But other than for serious financial reasons, I don't get why anyone would opt for that crap in the first place. I bought Pro in release week and don't feel the slightest way he hasn't delivered.
I mean where's the sense in crying for "First Access to new plugins" when there aren't any "new plugins" lol? That stuff.

For anyone whining "he's selling an abandoned product", there's a ton of far worse examples.
The FXpansion company doesn't even exist anymore for years, still they are selling their products as if nothing happened, like i.e. Geist v2 for 180 bucks.
They are even stating on the website:

Will my FXpansion products continue to receive updates?
Yes - the FXpansion team will continue to maintain and upgrade current product lines.

Geist2 hasn't been updated in well more than 5 years, and never will.
That's well more in the realm of being called a "fraud" than anything Matt was and is doing.
FXpansion is just one example.

And to put all that further in perspective:
why isn't anyone going in "ooohh-it's-abandoned-crybaby-mode" when u-he isn't updating their plugins for years?
No matter if it's Diva, Zebra, Hive, etc, they all had spans of 2, 3, 4 years without any updates.
Bazille had a span where it hasn't seen an update for more than 5 years, that's more than the entire lifetime of Vital lmao. I don't think I've ever seen anyone calling u-he a "fraud" company because of it, or did I miss that??
Just like FXpansion above, u-he is just one example.

Lastly, the successor to Vital might be released under a different name, but in whatever form it will appear, I have no doubt it's going to be an awesome piece of software.

Award for the worst examples in the world... apples and hammers...

- FXpansion is no longer selling anything on the website. What are you talking about?
- U-he is actively updating their product (Keyboard mode, CLAP, Apple silicon, bug fix...) AND THEY ARE NOT charging for anything about that...

So what???

[jules99]

Frankly, I'm not understanding the fuzz.
Of course it's yet another display why subscriptions s**k (for the user), and I agree he shouldn't offer that anymore, as well as ditching that nonsense for any future releases.
But other than for serious financial reasons, I don't get why anyone would opt for that crap in the first place. I bought Pro in release week and don't feel the slightest way he hasn't delivered.
I mean where's the sense in crying for "First Access to new plugins" when there aren't any "new plugins" lol? That stuff.

For anyone whining "he's selling an abandoned product", there's a ton of far worse examples.
The FXpansion company doesn't even exist anymore for years, still they are selling their products as if nothing happened, like i.e. Geist v2 for 180 bucks.
They are even stating on the website:

Will my FXpansion products continue to receive updates?
Yes - the FXpansion team will continue to maintain and upgrade current product lines.

Geist2 hasn't been updated in well more than 5 years, and never will.
That's well more in the realm of being called a "fraud" than anything Matt was and is doing.
FXpansion is just one example.

And to put all that further in perspective:
why isn't anyone going in "ooohh-it's-abandoned-crybaby-mode" when u-he isn't updating their plugins for years?
No matter if it's Diva, Zebra, Hive, etc, they all had spans of 2, 3, 4 years without any updates.
Bazille had a span where it hasn't seen an update for more than 5 years, that's more than the entire lifetime of Vital lmao. I don't think I've ever seen anyone calling u-he a "fraud" company because of it, or did I miss that??
Just like FXpansion above, u-he is just one example.

Lastly, the successor to Vital might be released under a different name, but in whatever form it will appear, I have no doubt it's going to be an awesome piece of software.

Award for the worst examples in the world... apples and hammers...

- FXpansion is no longer selling anything on the website. What are you talking about?
- U-he is actively updating their product (Keyboard mode, CLAP, Apple silicon, bug fix...) AND THEY ARE NOT charging for anything about that...

So what???

If anything it's example of an abandoned website. Because it is weird (and lazy) that they still have Geist 2 up and that there is still a buy button, but only after you click it you learn that it's not available anymore.

If you really want an example of abandoned or at least very little updated, take Battery 4 or FM8.

[mesamask]

Yeah thanks for the award, appreciated.
Right, the FXpansion checkout button leads nowhere now, last time I checked it would still proceed to payment. So my bad, missed that.
At least I didn't totally miss the entire point, regarding u-he.

[Cyoon]

u-he is very clear in communication and responsive though, if there is still any doubt.

[MrJubbly]

I wonder how many people out of all the Vital users actually bought a Plus or Pro licence for Vital. I did during its initial public beta testing before its initial release and once it was rolled out for general release (which was still quite cheap compared to other comparable synths).

But given that the free version has basically the same functionality as the paid version, only with less factory content, I bet most people just used the free version instead. Perhaps, that was too generous an offer from the developer and a mistake in retrospect?

I don't know how profitable it would be for Matt Tytel to continue working full time on Vital updates, if not many people supported him to do so with the paid version?

I might not be as eager to immediately support financially whatever his next product may be (that is, if he does decide to create a new plugin), given his previous track record of leaving products, not always in the most bug-free/compatible state, before moving on. Albeit, Vital is a LOT more stable than Helm.

However, he still deserves enormous respect for what he has already achieved and for many non-paying users at least, he provided them with one of the most capable free plugins around. But when compared to other professional developers' paid software, as some have mentioned previously, over the long term, the level of support and communication are just not sustained over a longer period of time.

I don't completely blame Matt however, but it would be nice if he kept his customers in the loop a little more often. Overall, I think his work on Vital has left his reputation with far more positive points to his name than negative. And nobody can be expected to be perfect.

[bermudagold]

I wonder how many people out of all the Vital users actually bought a Plus or Pro licence for Vital.

But given that the free version has basically the same functionality as the paid version, only with less factory content, I bet most people just used the free version instead. Perhaps, that was too generous an offer from the developer and a mistake in retrospect?

However, he still deserves enormous respect for what he has already achieved and for many non-paying users at least, he provided them with one of the most capable free plugins around.

"The Plus version at $25 is already an altruistic enough move in my opinion."
exactly...I think the free version was a misstep as well...people need to continue to understand and respect intrinsic and inherent value...and nothing exemplifies that more than the use of one's time...this only increases the entitlement complex in the world today and the douchebaggery behavior that comes with it...I am curious what the numbers show and how he feels about it now

helm was already his introductory free synth to wet appetites and demonstrate confidence in future purchases....that along with his development vlogs on social media...people shouldn't have hesitated to purchase vital...but what's the over/under on the percentage of downloads of the $80 kind being in the single digits?...did people forget he said on twitter that when he checked helm downloads vs donations he got depressed,...and then un-coincidentally stopped working on vital for a few months?...and this was back at max online buzz before the official release

in reality it probably had a negative effect on the industry as a whole as well...you think falcon, rapid, phaseplant, pigments would have all had the price drops and blow out sales they had without the entrance of vital?...If I'm not mistaken only serum and icarus tried to hold the line

[DashOfLime]

Frankly, I'm not understanding the fuzz.
Of course it's yet another display why subscriptions s**k (for the user), and I agree he shouldn't offer that anymore, as well as ditching that nonsense for any future releases.

This has nothing to do with subscriptions. It has to do with him offering a "good enough" version for free. If more people had paid for it I suspect we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But other than for serious financial reasons, I don't get why anyone would opt for that crap in the first place. I bought Pro in release week and don't feel the slightest way he hasn't delivered.
I mean where's the sense in crying for "First Access to new plugins" when there aren't any "new plugins" lol? That stuff.

Good for you I guess? It's always weird how someone thinks their own feelings on something outweighs what anyone else thinks.

For anyone whining "he's selling an abandoned product", there's a ton of far worse examples.
The FXpansion company doesn't even exist anymore for years, still they are selling their products as if nothing happened, like i.e. Geist v2 for 180 bucks.
They are even stating on the website:

Will my FXpansion products continue to receive updates?
Yes - the FXpansion team will continue to maintain and upgrade current product lines.

Geist2 hasn't been updated in well more than 5 years, and never will.
That's well more in the realm of being called a "fraud" than anything Matt was and is doing.
FXpansion is just one example.

Ah the old "well this person was doing something shitty, but this other person was doing something even shittier so the other guy isn't an issue"...

Get the point? Noting that someone else did something worse doesn't absolve the guy who's still being shitty.

And to put all that further in perspective:
why isn't anyone going in "ooohh-it's-abandoned-crybaby-mode" when u-he isn't updating their plugins for years?

No matter if it's Diva, Zebra, Hive, etc, they all had spans of 2, 3, 4 years without any updates.

Bazille had a span where it hasn't seen an update for more than 5 years, that's more than the entire lifetime of Vital lmao. I don't think I've ever seen anyone calling u-he a "fraud" company because of it, or did I miss that??
Just like FXpansion above, u-he is just one example.

Did Urs just disappear from everywhere leaving their website abandoned? No, the company keeps working on and releasing products and still hasn't gone to a subscription model. Know why? Because they weren't stupid enough to release free versions that do everything the paid for ones do and they priced their stuff at a sustainable level. u-He isn't an example at all.

Tone2 is another good example of how to do it right. They announced no more new stuff but they'd keep updating things.

Lastly, the successor to Vital might be released under a different name, but in whatever form it will appear, I have no doubt it's going to be an awesome piece of software.

Based on what you've written here I'm quite sure you don't have a doubt It's just bizarre to me when people just let other people coast no matter what they've done. The solution here would be some simple communication via the website. That he hasn't done that in years at this point should speak volumes to anyone considering buying anything from him again.

[DashOfLime]

in reality it probably had a negative effect on the industry as a whole as well...you think falcon, rapid, phaseplant, pigments would have all had the price drops and blow out sales they had without the entrance of vital?...If I'm not mistaken only serum and icarus tried to hold the line

Tried? Did Serum's price ever decrease? They never had any sales that I'm aware of. Icarus routinely went on sale.

Arturia also a bad example. They have always had big sales. Everyone else has as well. At some point you've made the money back from the major development and the rest should be gravy, or enough to maintain support of the product.

Rapid is yet another example of shitty behavior btw. A little bit of communication now and then works wonders.

[IvyBirds]

in reality it probably had a negative effect on the industry as a whole as well...you think falcon, rapid, phaseplant, pigments would have all had the price drops and blow out sales they had without the entrance of vital?...If I'm not mistaken only serum and icarus tried to hold the line

UVI was running deep discounts on Falcon long before Vital came out, and if you got it at deep discount (or full price) you get free upgrades for it to the current version.

The same can be said with Arturia and Pigments.

I don't remember what I paid for either years ago but since I only buy software on blowout sales like Black Friday you can bet it wasn't much

And that's the reality of buying plugins over the past 5-10 years, if you are patient they will probably end up on deep discount eventually, usually multiple times a year as all of the developers play a game of chicken with each other when it comes to pricing and that would have happened with it without Vital

Three months and sixteen days from today it will be Black Friday again and pretty much every developer will be holding a massive sale. That happened long before there was a Vital and will continue to happen in the future even if Vital vanishes forever

[mesamask]

...

Well, I respect your opinion. Doesn't mean I agree with you, but it's just fair you got your own point of view.
I also respect the opinion of others here, as long as they don't accuse somebody of "fraud", namely somebody who basically gave away a fairly groundbreaking Synth for free. And I disrespect the greed and opportunism some display.

My examples admittedly weren't the best choices, but I guess most here would still grasp the underlying point, the big audio companies do whatever the f**k they want with you. Have you ever tried asking Arturia or NI about the development status of their products, hardware or software?
For the record: I'm not researching it, just telling from experience, so Arturia and NI might be bad examples again
But frankly I don't care. Because I'm sure like 90% of us here had their very own bad experiences in that realm already...
But hey, jumping on a single, quite regular dude instead is just far easier

By the way, I'm not even taking this half as serious as it might seem.
Already stated "I'm not understanding the fuzz". As well as I indicated Matt should handle certain things differently.
But I'm not in the position to dictate this guy how he should do things, and don't think anyone else here is.