Bitwig 6 Beta coming soon

[xbitz]

I’d assume that, originally – especially with the audio interface in mind – Bitwig was designed to serve as a hybrid soft–hard modular environment(so that the system itself hides where one begins and the other ends.), and that any other type of use will inevitably come with some minor or major drawbacks. Now with version 6, it looks like there’ll be a one-off, user-request-driven adjustment (a bit of a side quest for the devs), but where they intend to take it from there is still an open question. To me, the main quest still seems to be serving the hybrid modular environments

these ones

In other words, it’s worth committing to it if that’s primarily what you use — and then it’s all smiles.

[Sonic Illusions]

No no.. it was promised as: "Going to be better than Abe."
And, last but not least: "DAW of The Future."

[ghettosynth]

No no.. it was promised as: "Going to be better than Abe."
And, last but not least: "DAW of The Future."

Yes, and MFL had been in the works when the devs left to develop Bitwig. So, ostensibly, they saw how that was going enough to take what they thought were the useful ideas from that.

The modular community was strong back then, but nothing like it is today, so I don't think that was the driver, per se. That has emerged as a significant target market. I doubt that the interface was on the original roadmap.

[SLiC]

Speaking as a modular user, I think most people have gone the ADAT - CV route, it has many advantages (I can go from computer I/O to say a PUSH 3 as a CV controller). I think you would have to be a total committed Bitwig fan who maybe has some light modular plan to think this is a good investment. Personally I think the orange is ugly and its much bigger than it needs to be...it misses for me and I am a Bitwig and Modular user.

[pdxindy]

If Bitwig would allow 3rd party developers to build custom modules for the Grid (in CLAP ideally), then we could see a VCV like environment with lot's of high quality DSP within the Grid. So modules like u-he CVilization could appear or whatever. As a competitor to M4L.

When I switched to Bitwig from Live, I was happy to be rid of M4L. For the first 10 years of its existence, M4L was a crashfest.

One of the "features" I buy when I keep updating and using Bitwig is that it's a walled garden. I'm glad it doesn't have lots of 3rd party modules and I would prefer for the Bitwig devs to keep going as they have been.

We can already get VCV and have what you are talking about and that makes more sense for developers to develop for a platform that can work in every DAW.

[Cyoon]

If Bitwig would allow 3rd party developers to build custom modules for the Grid (in CLAP ideally), then we could see a VCV like environment with lot's of high quality DSP within the Grid. So modules like u-he CVilization could appear or whatever. As a competitor to M4L.

Here's some of that tension. I don't think that this is necessary. I don't see the Grid as comparable to VCV. If you want VCV, then buy it and use it as a plugin. The view that the Grid is just a plugin substitute, to me, misses the point.

Well, VCV is a virtual Eurorack environment and so is the Grid basically a similar modular environment. The benefit I can see having this in the Grid is to have this extended by 3rd party but in the Bitwig fashion, maybe with clear guidelines or restrictions to keep everything smooth and stable.

Also, this would not make the Grid a competitor to Max. So, in one post you've said "I don't understand Bitwig or the Grid, and I also don't understand MFL."

Doubt that I would ever say that, you likely confused me with somebody.
Building custom functionality into the Grid and saving that as a preset essentially is what M4L also delivers, just the UI would as of now still be the standard Grid UI, could be changed though, if really desired. Which in my opinion is not really required. Of course some more things would need to happen with Grid, like more flexible routing options. To build something like this for example: https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/free-to ... dio-vr-ar/

One of the key features of MFL is the tight integration of the UI with Live's UI. This would be a feature to add, I commented on this earlier. That is, the ability to create user savable Grid devices with a standard set of U/I elements. A second key feature, again, one that I've already pointed out, is encapsulation. The Grid needs the ability to containerize and save user abstractions.

This is what I mean too, when thinking further.

But, to understand the tension, that I have seen for years in these discussions, those outside of this view would consider this a waste of time as compared to, say, improving the piano roll. That is the tension that I'm talking about. The simple idea that Bitwig just needs enhancements to make it more like other DAWS, vs, the understanding that it is a unique product with a particular vision and what it needs is that vision to be nurtured.

I at least have no tension, eventually it's nothing I or we can really influence. Still interesting to share ideas and opinions.

[xbitz]

After a bit of reading, I’ll revise my take: Bitwig really committed to this direction somewhere between versions 1.0 and 2.0, spotting the business opportunity. Between 2014 and 2016, the Eurorack scene exploded, and the demand for DAW ↔ modular integration grew significantly. That’s when Bitwig positioned itself more firmly in the hybrid soft–hard modular niche.

So basically, it’s all the modular users’ fault then comes the enter the Grid era, that was the point where Bitwig really positioned itself as a full modular DAW, not just a modular-friendly one.

"Better Hardware Integration
We’ve done a lot of work under the hood to revamp MIDI handling in Bitwig Studio; improving sync and note timing. We are also introducing a set of devices that will allow you to seamlessly integrate hardware machines into your workflow via MIDI and CV/Gate." - https://www.bitwig.com/stories/bitwig-studio-2-221/ or https://www.bitwig.com/stories/behind-t ... studio-21/
But the point is, I was only wrong about the origin — from 2.0 onward, I’m right.

[koalaboy]

But the point is, I was only wrong about the origin — from 2.0 onward, I’m right.

I hope they stay on the modular path, for both hardware *and* software modulars... because if it moves to focus more on hardware, I think that would lose a lot of people.

Hardware modular is great, but really expensive and a lot of that sequencing is DAW-free... it's more for mixdowns and recording I guess. I imagine that with connect they have found a nice way to have the hybrid setup in a Bitwig way, and now we just need more flexibility in the Grid.

I'm eager to see what they have in store though

[ghettosynth]

The modular nature of Bitwig was promised in 1.0 but they failed to deliver. So the Grid wasn't a result of a transition in perspective, it was just late because the team likely realized that DAW development might actually be harder than they originally thought.

In fact, this was why I didn't jump on board with 1.0, well, among other reasons. For me, it took until 5.x for a cohesive breadth first modular approach to be apparent. It is still not a replacement for any of the common modular tools, including Max/MFL, but it does have a reasonably interesting vision that has emerged over time.

I don't pretend to know when the interface arrived on the roadmap, and I do think that it was opportunistic to the explosion of interest in Eurorack post MI, but I think that it's a mistake in thinking to suggest that they're basing their hopes entirely on that market, per se. Yes, I think that they want to be the DAW of choice for that market, but I also think that they see their market as more broadly appealing to anyone who thinks in those terms, with or without modular hardware.

I think that, like Reaper, it's a DAW with a particular vision, and like Reaper, it develops slowly, for somewhat different reasons, but with a common thread that neither wants to compromise their vision for naive user views of product quality.

It took more than a decade for me to give them money, that's how long it took for a substandard version of the stated original mission to emerge. I think that suggests that it's quite difficult to keep a DAW abstract and generalized in a modular way without sacrificing stability. I won't have to pay for 6.whatever, but I can very much see that I may not give them more money until version 8 or 9. For now, it serves its purpose for me. I'm not expecting anything in 6 that I'll care about, but we'll see.

[xbitz]

^^^ I’m not talking about modularity in general, but about the hybrid soft–hard modular environment — the intertwining of the two, modularity itself was already part of the promise in 1.0. (For some reason, I was completely under the impression that the HW devices were there from the start not just from 2.0)

"2. A modulation environment for everything. Okay, so it’s not modular yet – you don’t get this sort of Reaktor-inside-Ableton feeling of having a complete modular tool. But you do get semi-modular control of everything in sight, with some powerful tools for authoring complex sound designs."

https://cdm.link/bitwig-studio-arrives- ... an-expect/ from 2014

[Dionysos]

Now with version 6, it looks like there’ll be a one-off, user-request-driven adjustment (a bit of a side quest for the devs)

You're really going strong in the "silly hot takes" category recently.

[Dionysos]

To stay on topic, I wonder if there will be any more teasers before the full beta release & announcement end of August.

[pdxindy]

To stay on topic, I wonder if there will be any more teasers before the full beta release & announcement end of August.

I guess no...

[BBFG#]

Recent email is implying they'll only support controllers they deem as "popular".
Which had already became a problem in version 5. I feel more FUs coming...

[teilo]

I am so confused. Bitwig is a DAW. U-he makes plugins to be used inside a DAW... including Bitwig.

I really don't understand what one has to do with the other.

Bitwig can be thought of a modular composition environment, at least that's how I view it. Thus there is this tension between sound generating tools within that environment and external to that environment. That's what that has to do with this.

Almost all DAWs have built-in native plugins. That's all The Grid is. No tension. No confusion.

Um, no, LOL! Did you think that I needed you to explain the Grid?

Um, no, LOL! I thought that your statement that there is some tension or confusion regarding whether Bitwig is a modular composition or a DAW is a red herring. Bitwig is a DAW. The Grid is a native plugin in the DAW. Everybody knows this. No tension. No confusion.