Sonar 4 PE

[Left Headphone]

I have grown weary of waiting for T2 and FLS5 just doesn't cut it for me.

Before I take a expensive plunge into Sonar4PE, what are pitfalls of using it. I know all the good things it does. What can it not do? In what area does its performance lag. Thanks in advance for the comments!

[Alan]

The only complaints I have reside in Audio editing,still no DC offset tool(although there is Toby Bears freebee VST plugin),and the normalize functions are still archaic and from the Cakewalk days,no way to switch to a line tool for precise cuts(still stuck with the mouse pointer).The only other complaint I have is soft synth automation within the program(still baffling to me).But those negitives are far outweighed by the positives(ie: stability,freeze that releases memory,acid loop import/editing,midi acid loop brushing,workflow and on and on).

[JerGoertz]

From everything I've read and experienced, as an owner of both Sonar 4 PE and Cubase 2 SX, Sonar 4 will do everything that the other "big boys" can. 4 introduced a very nice bussing architecture and some productivity enhancements such as track folders (allows you to group a bunch of related tracks) as well as surround sound, dither, and MPEX2 timestretching.

It's been my observation that Sonar seems a bit clunky in it's graphics redraw rate while running a project under heavy CPU load, something which Cubase doesn't suffer from. Hmmmm... what else... I prefer Sonar's MIDI editing features to Cubase 2's, but I don't have any experience with Cubase 3.

[Z3R0T0N1N]

before you totally take the plunge, give Podium a try. And really give it a chance too, because although it is a bit different seeming when you first start it up, it was one of the quickest learning curves I have experienced. And this program is REALLY solid, and very flexible. not only that, the developer is a great guy who continues to make improvements all the time. If you do try it, and need any help, give me a shout, I would be happy to assist.

Cheerz.

[Left Headphone]

The freeze that releases memory is really what sold me. I bought Sonar 1 when it first came out and hated it. But, I have been playing with the Sonar 4 demo and it seems so much better- as should be expected in version 4.

How well does it convert midi to audio? Is it a long process?

[LBN]

I have grown weary of waiting for T2 and FLS5 just doesn't cut it for me.

The wait for T2 is almost over. Expect an announcement at NAMM in less than two weeks.

[hello1234]

I have grown weary of waiting for T2 and FLS5 just doesn't cut it for me.

Before I take a expensive plunge into Sonar4PE, what are pitfalls of using it. I know all the good things it does. What can it not do? In what area does its performance lag. Thanks in advance for the comments!

I have pe3, and am now trying pe4 (full 45 day trial through music tech mag)

4 is a god in comparison, it's more stable and has some phnominal workflow improvments (there are so many mags that are reviewing this lately, I'll let you read about them on your own.)

SONAR sounds much better than tracktion, which is the only reason I am considering it.....and that I will pay 180 bucks only for the upgrade.

So far, it's quite tempting.

Remember though, there is a 90% chance T2 will be announced during/after namm, and I believe (really) that feb 2nd will be the realease date.

[Left Headphone]

Remember though, there is a 90% chance T2 will be announced during/after namm, and I believe (really) that feb 2nd will be the realease date.

I wish they would release a list of the new features instead of the teasers. Being a broke college student, I can eat cheese and crackers for a while, and buy the academic version of S4PE.

I might be able to splurge a little and buy a can of Spam.

[atomic_(no)afro]

Sonar 4's pretty good, only a couple of bugs, and the workflow problems mostly came from being used to the workflow of FLStudio (my previous main sequencer). It takes a little learning to get the VST-DX adapter to work right, especially if you have alot of freeware plug-ins that won't work right with the adapter. My only other issue right now is dealing with how the program deals with loops. It's not as smooth as Acid, or even FLStudio. Stutters are a nightmare as each chop has to be done with a slow ass cutting tool that sometimes has a long delay from when you place the cut, and when the cut shows up. It takes a long time to make even basic stutters that Acid handles fine, and now FLStudio has presets for. But MIDI, Freezing, and (mostly) stable handling of softsynths make it one cool pro sequencer. Worth it, especially for studio projects.

ATA

[JerGoertz]

I personally think that Sonar's much-ballyhooed audio groove-clip looping isn't much worth using. To my ear it hasn't improved since Sonar 2 and just sounds unpolished (artifacts).

The offline audio stretch algorithm, however, took a huge boost in Sonar 4 since it's now MPEX 2. Sounds really really good.

[contrast]

Having a real bad time with S4PE right now, wish I had bought SX3 instead. The whole long shpiel if you care to read it:

Basically, in ASIO mode recording audio is all messed up; if I stream a drumloop out through some fx unit and back in, after the recording is over it will be positioned prior to where it is just bouncing the VST. This issue also results in recording in loop mode putting the stuff at the very beginning of the loop at the end (about 2k samples at 88.2).

So their solution is to go to WDM. WDM doesn't work at all for more at 88.2, crackling and popping at any latency. Appears to be related to some buffer setting that is editable at useless sample rates like 11k and 22k but not 88.2.

Off to 44.1 and 96 I go, and the latency is up over 40ms; still get some crackling and popping when recording so probably 50+ to be really usable. Uselss for playing softsynths in realtime which I do a LOT.

I'm still going back and forth with their tech support who are a little bit slow and make you enter each response on their web site instead of via email.

Too bad about all this as it has a lot of great features (and a few glaring ommissions mentioned by other posters above). Of course many people don't have these problems, or noone would use the program, but make sure to thoroughly test it with your hardware... Obviously I did not test thoroughly enough; actually I tested on another machine without all of my hardware because I was building a new DAW. Pretty stupid and will probably result in a loss of about 300 bucks if it can't be fixed, I can't get a refund out of them, and have to pay for a crossgrade to SX.

[Alan]

if I stream a drumloop out through some fx unit and back in, after the recording is over it will be positioned prior to where it is

There will be latencey patching any hardware.Cubase's i/o plug might solve this(haven't heard anything about user experiences yet).

WDM doesn't work at all for more at 88.2, crackling and popping at any latency.

That's totally dependant on your particular hardware and configuration as I and many other simply don't experience those problems.If Cubase reacts better to your hardware configuration,then there's your solution.But,I myself can use either app without those problems(except latencey with external hardware).

[contrast]

I am well aware of how sending things out to hardware works. I think you don't understand the issue, which is understandable since it is non-obvious and I could have explained it more clearly.

If I have kicks on every quarter note, at 88.2, 120bpm, you would expect the second kick to be at approximately 44k samples.

Somehow, if I send this out to hardware and back in, it ends up at around 42k when recording with ASIO. It is EARLY, not late. This should be impossible. If I bounce the VST to an audio track internally then the second kick is at about 44k as it should be.

As for the WDM stuff, as I said in the post you quoted, I have no doubt it works great for many other people. In fact I'm sure it's great for the vast majority. I was just posting my personal experience (which has been quite frustrating and potentially an expensive mistake) and venting a little.

[LoRez]

The only complaints I have reside in Audio editing,still no DC offset tool(although there is Toby Bears freebee VST plugin),and the normalize functions are still archaic and from the Cakewalk days,no way to switch to a line tool for precise cuts(still stuck with the mouse pointer).The only other complaint I have is soft synth automation within the program(still baffling to me).But those negitives are far outweighed by the positives(ie: stability,freeze that releases memory,acid loop import/editing,midi acid loop brushing,workflow and on and on).

Well said Alan. These are exactly my complaints as well. However, Sonar does more things for me well than anything else I've worked with, and being such an open environment it's easy to find a pretty painless way around anything. And the really important stuff for me is the stuff that Sonar really excels at.

[LoRez]

The freeze that releases memory is really what sold me. I bought Sonar 1 when it first came out and hated it. But, I have been playing with the Sonar 4 demo and it seems so much better- as should be expected in version 4.

How well does it convert midi to audio? Is it a long process?

Just freeze When freezing in Sonar4 it actually turns the midi into audio automatically. One touch bouncing.