Bitwig 6 Beta coming soon

[Echoes in the Attic]

The new Automation Clips are so powerful!

I like that I can have midi clips playing on say Track 3. And at the same time, I can have Automation Clips on Track 3 in the Clip Launcher and trigger them separately from the playing midi clips in Arrange.

And of course I can have a Macro Knob controlling 6-8 parameters then have Automation Clips controlling that Macro.

It’s still possible though to have clips that have both the audio/midi along with automation right? So what if you have clip automation on the clip itself and then also automaton clips affecting it? How does that work? Override it, or additive?

[pdxindy]

It’s still possible though to have clips that have both the audio/midi along with automation right? So what if you have clip automation on the clip itself and then also automaton clips affecting it? How does that work? Override it, or additive?

You can only have a single automation lane for a given parameter. Clips can no longer have an add or multiply lane that could combine with the absolute track automation.

In that sense, there is no separate clip automation anymore.

[jules99]

It's mind-boggling that when it comes to ARA, that both Ableton and Bitwig communities act so entitled and ignorant.

You could, you know, at the very least, take a look at what ARA actually is, before acusing a DAW maker of ignorance or laziness.

Because if you simply scanned the first couple of sentences of ARA's Wikipedia article, you'd read about how an ARA plugin like melodyne needs to read a single track's full content from start to finish to work.

You could then come to the conclusion that this specific need, which is at the core of ARA, is at odds with non-linear DAWs like Bitwig, like Ableton, like FL. Clip Launchers are build specifically to be non linear. There is no specific end or beginning.

Given how huge the user bases of these three DAWs are, you could then come to wonder if it might not be them being incompetent or ignorant. But more that ARA's maker Presonus hasn't yet adapted the plugin format to these DAW workflows.

You could do that. But you can also just continue to feel like your DAW maker has specifically ignored you and is leaving you behind while all these other DAWs are so far ahead.

[aMUSEd]

It's mind-boggling that when it comes to ARA, that both Ableton and Bitwig communities act so entitled and ignorant.

You could, you know, at the very least, take a look at what ARA actually is, before acusing a DAW maker of ignorance or laziness.

Because if you simply scanned the first couple of sentences of ARA's Wikipedia article, you'd read about how an ARA plugin like melodyne needs to read a single track's full content from start to finish to work.

You could then come to the conclusion that this specific need, which is at the core of ARA, is at odds with non-linear DAWs like Bitwig, like Ableton, like FL. Clip Launchers are build specifically to be non linear. There is no specific end or beginning.

Given how huge the user bases of these three DAWs are, you could then come to wonder if it might not be them being incompetent or ignorant. But more that ARA's maker Presonus hasn't yet adapted the plugin format to these DAW workflows.

You could do that. But you can also just continue to feel like your DAW maker has specifically ignored you and is leaving you behind while all these other DAWs are so far ahead.

That's interesting

[Cyoon]

It's mind-boggling that when it comes to ARA, that both Ableton and Bitwig communities act so entitled and ignorant.

You could, you know, at the very least, take a look at what ARA actually is, before acusing a DAW maker of ignorance or laziness.

Because if you simply scanned the first couple of sentences of ARA's Wikipedia article, you'd read about how an ARA plugin like melodyne needs to read a single track's full content from start to finish to work.

You could then come to the conclusion that this specific need, which is at the core of ARA, is at odds with non-linear DAWs like Bitwig, like Ableton, like FL. Clip Launchers are build specifically to be non linear. There is no specific end or beginning.

Given how huge the user bases of these three DAWs are, you could then come to wonder if it might not be them being incompetent or ignorant. But more that ARA's maker Presonus hasn't yet adapted the plugin format to these DAW workflows.

You could do that. But you can also just continue to feel like your DAW maker has specifically ignored you and is leaving you behind while all these other DAWs are so far ahead.

Let's just enjoy regular Aras then


ah yea, and Ableton lost now

[WatchTheGuitar]

Looks good so far though I only seem to get the global scale working with the KeyFilter+ plugin, not the others that claim to let you enable it with the little sharps and flats button on things like the arpeggiator. I do like the global scale option but hope it gets extended at some point to allow user defined scales especially microtonal ones.

[swilow11]

Curious what they'll come up with tomorrow!

I think, it will be Bitwig 6 beta.

You were right

[jens]

It's mind-boggling that when it comes to ARA, that both Ableton and Bitwig communities act so entitled and ignorant.

You could, you know, at the very least, take a look at what ARA actually is, before acusing a DAW maker of ignorance or laziness.

Because if you simply scanned the first couple of sentences of ARA's Wikipedia article, you'd read about how an ARA plugin like melodyne needs to read a single track's full content from start to finish to work.

You could then come to the conclusion that this specific need, which is at the core of ARA, is at odds with non-linear DAWs like Bitwig, like Ableton, like FL. Clip Launchers are build specifically to be non linear. There is no specific end or beginning.

Given how huge the user bases of these three DAWs are, you could then come to wonder if it might not be them being incompetent or ignorant. But more that ARA's maker Presonus hasn't yet adapted the plugin format to these DAW workflows.

You could do that. But you can also just continue to feel like your DAW maker has specifically ignored you and is leaving you behind while all these other DAWs are so far ahead.

That is complete and utter nonsense - and frankly, I totally don't get it:

do you really think the same absurd claim will age better here than over at Reddit, where you ended up deleting all your respective posts? Why on earth would you go that same route again?

[jens]

That's interesting

Interesting how someone would make such an enormously dumb claim - and twice...

[tumface]

Obviously, ARA is incompatible with a session view or clip launcher view.

I don't see why it would be incompatible with the arrangement view. Should work fine there, in concept.

Whether or not some % of users care about it is a different question. I feel like ARA is suited to DAWs which focus heavily on recording and manipulating recorded audio. I don't feel like that is Bitwig's strong suit, though it is certainly capable of it. I wouldn't mind ARA support in Bitwig but I also wouldn't go out of my way to demand it, since I'm likely to only use it occasionally, if it existed.

By the way, in Bitwig, you can just edit any of the wav files that are in clips at any time in an external editor and save them, and Bitwig will immediately update with the changes. No need to tell it to refresh or whatever.

[Echoes in the Attic]

It’s still possible though to have clips that have both the audio/midi along with automation right? So what if you have clip automation on the clip itself and then also automaton clips affecting it? How does that work? Override it, or additive?

You can only have a single automation lane for a given parameter. Clips can no longer have an add or multiply lane that could combine with the absolute track automation.

In that sense, there is no separate clip automation anymore.

But what if you want to trigger a single clip play booth midi notes and automation at the same time? I get that it’s cool to have separate control but can you still trigger both notes and automation in one clip?

[ffx]

You could then come to the conclusion that this specific need, which is at the core of ARA, is at odds with non-linear DAWs like Bitwig, like Ableton, like FL. Clip Launchers are build specifically to be non linear. There is no specific end or beginning.

Is this really knowledge based or just wild assumptions, because if I open my current Studio One, it also contains a clip launcher, but at the same time supports ARA.

Current standard also is ARA2. Isn't Logic also containing a clip launcher and ARA2 support at the same time, too?

What is this discussion all about? ARA2 support certainly could be added to Bitwig from a technical viewpoint, but maybe also Bitwig team decided not to do so, because of technical limitations - who knows. Maybe they want to add similar support thru CLAP...

[Resonant- Serpent]

Will the 6 beta overwrite my 5.3 installation?

[jens]

Obviously, ARA is incompatible with a session view or clip launcher view.

Well, actually I don't see why it would. ARA2 offers additionally per-track functionality (albeit not all ARA2 compatible hosts support it yet), but originally it was only functioning on a per-clip level.

How ARA generally speaking works is the following way:

1) the host passes over the audio-material together with tempo and position information over to the
plugin

(

2) the plugin caches what it determines to require to cache

3) the hosts passes on playback info to the plugin (in quasi-realtime) / that would be quite similar (or perhaps even identical, I have no idea) without ARA

)

4 the DAW passes on relevant changes to the plugin


That's why you can move ARA-processed clips, can arbitrarily jump back and forth and loop-sections. / the latter part would again be possible without ARA as well, but not the former.

Whether the DAW orchestrates the arbitrary playback jumps or whether you do it manually shouldn't really matter, as far as I can see. And neither should it matter wheter the former is Ableton Live (etc.) style clip triggering or a Cubase (etc.) arranger doing the orchestration. Either way it's arbitrary playback jumps within whatever file-length has been passed on to the ARA-plugin which the plugin has to follow/execute.

Thing is:

DAWs generally aren't very linear. Timelines are, but not the DAWs themselves, which is why they are called non-linear editing systems
(please allow me to also quote Wikipedia ).

There are differences though:

about half the DAWs have on continous file, which a clip or take is just a region of; the other half has an independent file for each clip/take. The latter is of course easier to handle when it comes to ARA(2) and as far as I am aware of it, the majority of DAWs that does NOT support ARA yet falls in this second category.

By the way, speaking of: FL has been mentioned - does it have a clip-launcher too now? That would be something relatively newish, right?

Sonar certainly had a clip-launcher for longer than ARA exists AND was - Studio One aside - one of the first DAWs to support ARA. (There's no clip-level plugin support though and neither per-track ARA.)

[jens]

Will the 6 beta overwrite my 5.3 installation?

No, it won't.