Real amps vs modelling and plugin amps

[stoopicus]

Ahh wait, I see, it's because I got them through Plugin Alliance and they are still in my list there. This must have been before UAD pulled them in the Brainworx stuff too.

[zerocrossing]

I do think some amp sims are easier to use than others in terms of getting a good tone though. I have never had a hard time getting Kuassa's sims to sound good, for example, while I have found UAD to be a bit more work. You can get them to a good place too but my initial take on them is usually that they are kind of muddy. I actually think it's their cab sims and not the amps.

That's exactly what I thought, until I realized I had to bring the input setting down to "Line," as I was feeding it what was effectively a line level signal, and then it brighted right up. Huge difference. Try it.

Unfortunately I can't now, I was demoing back when they were still separate Brainworx plugins and you could do that. Now there's no demo I am aware of and they don't show up on my UAD plugin list so I apparently never bought them (which doesn't surprise me, as mentioned I didn't really like them).

It's also weird because the ones I was using now appear to be only supported in UAD-2 (i.e. require an Apollo).

The new emulations are all native. (UADX)

[Uncle E]

Ahh wait, I see, it's because I got them through Plugin Alliance and they are still in my list there. This must have been before UAD pulled them in the Brainworx stuff too.

Those are the old ones, mostly made by Brainworx and Softube. The only one of those made by UA was the Fender Tweed Deluxe. Ruby, Lion, Dream, and Woodrow are quite different from those.

[stoopicus]

Yeah. The two I own (Ampeg SVT-VR and G-K 800RB) exist native with the older plugin, and are unavailable on UA's site; they are now UAD-2 only on UA and Brainworx. So, older and not updated most likely (the SVT is literally version 1.0.0 ). You can still buy them from PA or Plugin Boutique though.

The amp sim part is not bad at all, quite decent actually, but the cabsims are not great.

[YnJ]

It’s definitely trickier to get a good sound out of a plugin, due to the increased amount of variables. Whether or not that effort is worth the time is up to you. If you have something that’s working for you, it’s easy to see why you would just dismiss it software, but if you don’t, it’s the answer to a lot of problems

I'll admit it took me a couple of days to figure how to hook up the guitar to the interface and dial it in correctly. I did actually use amp sims almost exclusively for a couple of years though, as soon as I got the settings dialed in I can't recall having much trouble getting the tone I was looking for. The problem I have with amp sims was never the sound though, apart from the amp sims supposedly modelled on real amps not sounding like the real amp at all and amp sims from the same company tended to all have the same basic sound. For me it is the responsiveness I rediscovered when checking a crappy solid state amp I was going to sell. It's two completely different worlds, and it matters to me. If it doesn't bother you, that's fine. It has nothing to do with amp sims being tricker though, if you assume that I'd say it's actually a tad patronizing

There is also a certain flavour, like an aftertaste, to the sound of a lot of digital amp sims which rubs me the wrong way. This is mostly prevalent when increasing the gain though, not on clean sounds. I still use amp sims and digital amps. I love the lead tone on the digital Yamaha DG-1000 preamp, you really get the Holdsworth tone. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone as an all round amp though, and there's not much responsiveness, the clean and drive channels sounds mediocre, and the crunch channel sounds crap. It's fine for leads though, especially when playing legato. I will still use amp sims for some clean sounds on parts where the responsiveness doesn't matter as much as well

I’m pretty sure YnJ will like the Anti and Knuckles pedals

Perhaps. With that price tag it feels more right to me to throw in another couple of hundred quids and get a real amp though, even if it's not a 5150/Rectifier. The Anti is half the price of a new 5150 Iconic amp head over here

[Uncle E]

That’s true. Also the Behringer copy of the 5150, I recently sold one for about half the price of the Anti.

[YnJ]

That’s true. Also the Behringer copy of the 5150, I recently sold one for about half the price of the Anti

What's the difference between the original Peavey 5150 and the 5150 Iconic btw? Or the Peavey 6505? I have only tried the 6505, and ended up getting the Framus you suggested instead. I can get a tone pretty close to the 6505 with that, so would there being any point to look at a 5150 Iconic at all? I'm not always looking for a better amp, I usually more interested in a different amp. Something which I can get a sound out of I can't get from any other amp I have

[glokraw]

There is also a certain flavour, like an aftertaste, to the sound of a lot of digital amp sims which rubs me the wrong way.

I have two sets of earbuds, and depending on the output of the gear, the expensive set may be far worse or far better sounding than the cheap set. Same for headphones and speakers. There's a lot of room and need for specs-reading to mix-n-match excellent sounding combinations. The more diverse the gear collection, the longer it will take to find what is best, or good enough, in a given setup. While time and money are both getting more expensive

[Uncle E]

What's the difference between the original Peavey 5150 and the 5150 Iconic btw? Or the Peavey 6505? I have only tried the 6505, and ended up getting the Framus you suggested instead. I can get a tone pretty close to the 6505 with that, so would there being any point to look at a 5150 Iconic at all? I'm not always looking for a better amp, I usually more interested in a different amp. Something which I can get a sound out of I can't get from any other amp I have

No point getting any 5150-type. Your Framus is better than all of them. A Framus Ruby Riot or CS 30 would be good if you can find one. Ruby Riot 2 would be a better counterpoint to your Cobra but I love the Ruby Riot 1’s modded Marshall tone.

[YnJ]

It's definitely the most versatile amp I have. You mentioned earlier a Behringer copy of the 5150, did you think of the Bugera? A digression as I'm not going to get it, the Bugera 6262 which I understand is a copy of the 5150 (or is it a copy of the 6505?) is almost the same price as a 5150 Iconic over here. Another Bugera copy I actually find interesting is the 333XL, which I understand is a copy of the Peavey JSX. I have never actually tried a JSX, Joe Satriani uses them though, and I do like Satriani. I can't remember ever seeing a JSX for sale over here, new or used

[tapper mike]

The other day I turned on my Roland Cube and ran my guitar through that. It only begins to be audible at 2.5 with no tone control and it's already too loud for this apartment at 3 when the tone controls do work the cops come.

Yet I wanted that experience again of playing through a real amp out of the speaker. I played with it for about an hour during lunchtime Yes I felt the true glory of a sort of real amp. Roland was clear that they weren't recreating other amps in that model they were creating "new" amps. That's exactly what I got but I didn't find anything really remarkable about the models. The JC sounded like a JC I'll give them that. The last time I played out using that amp was a good ten years ago. It filled the medium sized bar (about 200 ppl capacity) the show went well but it was a one off blues jam.

If I were playing out these days I'd simply run my pod go into the line in and leave it at that. I've been thinking of using my THR10 as a monitor for the pod go, rather than sending it through my mixer and out to the mains as I do now.

[Uncle E]

It's definitely the most versatile amp I have. You mentioned earlier a Behringer copy of the 5150, did you think of the Bugera? A digression as I'm not going to get it, the Bugera 6262 which I understand is a copy of the 5150 (or is it a copy of the 6505?) is almost the same price as a 5150 Iconic over here. Another Bugera copy I actually find interesting is the 333XL, which I understand is a copy of the Peavey JSX. I have never actually tried a JSX, Joe Satriani uses them though, and I do like Satriani. I can't remember ever seeing a JSX for sale over here, new or used

Yes, you’re right, Bugera. Bugera is Behringer’s amp brand.

The JSX and 333XL are good. Lots of bite, like the SLO. Again, not something you need but they're good amps.

FWIW, we've done A LOT of EVH 5150 repairs. :-/

[YnJ]

The reason I ask is because Bugera amps go really cheap second hand. I just saw a 333XL including a 4x12 cab listed at 300 quid. I have been looking at the V55 for a more low/midgain amp as well

Anyway, I'm prioritising speakers right now. I would rather get a proper solid state amp as well. I've been looking at the Orange Dual Baby, I'm really tempted to get a Peavey XXL though, as I used to have the Bandit once and really liked the transtube sound. They go for about 300 quid second hand as well

[Uncle E]

This video sums up my experience perfectly. Listen to the difference from when they're plugged into the tube amp's power section and cabinet vs. going through an FRFR:

[zerocrossing]

This video sums up my experience perfectly. Listen to the difference from when they're plugged into the tube amp's power section and cabinet vs. going through an FRFR:

Mine too, and that experience is, you can get a good guitar sound from almost any modern solution. I personally love that transistor Orange. I've always had a soft spot for transistor amps, and one of my favorites of all time was an Ampeg stereo chorus model that sounded similar, though I played it tweaked for a lot more mid range.

I know nothing about the Fender Tonemaster, nor am I interested. It didn't sound great to me, but that's not a dispersion on all modelers, just the Tonemaster. Seems like it wasn't getting the attack right. One thing I'm curious about is, what would the Tonemaster sound like if you backed off the input gain a bit and made up for it with virtual preamp gain. I've found that sometimes when I hate a modeler or capture, backing off the input gain can make a huge difference. Maybe the virtual mic placement or using an IR could have made it better.

Also, I'll remark that when I started using FIFR monitors with amp modelers, it took me a really long time to wrap my head around how to get them to sound good. At first I was using a pair of cheap KB-60s and I was getting really good results, but I moved to a pair of Mackie powered monitors, and it sounded like crap at first. I had to go back and really do a lot of tweaking to get the sound I wanted, but I ultimately did.