Now available: Gladiator 4.2

[tumface]

A friend of mine bought a new car that the engine froze in the first few dozen miles. When he took it back, the dealer didn't say "oh all of the other thousands of cars work just fine"...no, they took the car back and replaced it. (Yea I was a little shocked it was that easy, too.)

But isn't that just a kind and simple way of handling things? Golden rule works every time.

However, again, I appreciate the support. As a note I am on Windows 11, everything up to date. The installer MAY not overwrite the Standalone version on SOME machines.

Software isn't cars with manufacturing tolerances and moving parts.

The Tone2 installer, like basically all Windows installers, will stop and display an error if it's unable to replace a file during installation or update.

You were rude to the developer and got a reply in kind.

It's true that weird stuff can happen. I have experience with this, developing software and receiving reports from users about things going wrong. More likely than the Tone2 installer failing silently is that something like backup software or anti-malware software restored an old version of the file in place over the new one written by the installer. There's not much developers can do about that.

[JunX]

It could be some Windows security settings preventing the file override. Not sure if this is a requirement of the Gladiator installer but some app installers require users to "Run as Administrator" in order to install correctly. If not, maybe Tone2 can consider putting this requirement in the instruction.

[tumface]

It could be some Windows security settings preventing the file override. Not sure if this is a requirement of the Gladiator installer but some app installers require users to "Run as Administrator" in order to install correctly. If not, maybe Tone2 can consider putting this requirement in the instruction.

Every Windows installer (at least all the ones I know about...) will fail if it gets an error attempting to write a file. When Windows Defender blocks a file write, or the installer has insufficient permissions and the write files, it will display an error dialog and say that the installation failed. It's a basic requirement for an installer.


I believe the more likely explanation is that the installer never tried to write the file in the first place (user did not select it during installation) or that it was correctly written, but then overwritten again afterwards with an older version of the file (either manually by the user restoring files from another drive or backup, or by an automated utility.)

[zvenx]

What you are suggesting is that the user is not smart enough to know the difference.
He has already said like me, he uses vst3, and afaik the only way to install the vst3 of tone2 stuff is use the full install option.
I can't speak for jonsolo, but I have never gone back a version with tone2 stuff on my pc, yet.

And what exactly did jon say that was rude?
Smh.
rsp

[tumface]

And what exactly did jon say that was rude?

"This is 4.1 FULL. Not some old outdated version. Now...support please."

Not super rude, but I wouldn't call that even remotely polite. It's fine, though. We all make mistakes.

He has already said like me, he uses vst3, and afaik the only way to install the vst3 of tone2 stuff is use the full install option.

As you saw above, the Standalone and VST3 versions of Gladiator are actually wrappers around the VST2 version. This is good, because it saves disk space and reduces duplicate code prefetching/caching if you use multiple versions.

The installer lets you choose to install or update only the VST2 version.

Tone2_Gladiator_v4.1.0_PC_demo_64Bit.tmp_8e9lXOPbKi.png

This is not the default selection. But, if you do this and have already installed the Standalone and VST3 versions, it will only update the VST2 file, leaving the old wrappers in place. The old wrappers will load the new VST2 file fine, but if there were any changes to the wrappers (like new menus in the standalone version) they won't show up. Which is the problem Jon was having.

[zvenx]

But I have the same issue and I do the full install since I am a cubendo user.
I didn't notice I had the issue until I saw Markus's post with the screenshots. Because I rarely use the standalone and it apparently was already configured for my midi controller.

What I had to do is delete all the tone2 x64.exe standalones and redo the full install.
It is fine now.
But at least for me and Jon, it didn't replace the older standalone and at least for me it never gave me any error notification.
rsp

[tumface]

Maybe the installer does have a problem, then.

edit:

To show I'm not lying, I tried to break the installer by stopping it from being able to write files in various places, and it always showed something to this effect:

Tone2_Gladiator_v4.1.0_PC_demo_64Bit.tmp_qqKOk7JF7s.png

It seems really unlikely to me that the installer failed instead of some other explanation. I'm not saying you necessarily did something wrong -- I don't know what the actual reason is -- but I don't think it's "the installer needs to be fixed." (Though it could be. Just, seems really unlikely to me.)

Also, the installer does require admin privileges when you run it.

[Tone2 Synthesizers]

Fact is that we did not receive any reports about the installers not working as intended since half a decade from our paying customers.
The 'drama' of a messed up installation can be easily fixed by doing a double-click on the installer and doing a 'full installation'.

Technical explanation:
The standalone GladiatorX64.exe is a minimalistic DAW/host. It acts as wrapper for the plugin. If it isn't updated the old 'DAW' still runs with the new version of the plugin. The old DAW version has a different menu on the top left. The 'standlone/DAW' is only updated/installed if you also choose to install the standalone in the installer.
I guess what happened is that the user did a duplicate installation to several different directories and/or moved around the gladiatorX64.dll from one directory to another, but forgot to move the standalone gladiatorX64.exe .
Or he did a full install first and then a vst2 only installation of a newer version later. So that the old version of the standalone was not installed/updated.
There is also nothing you can do as a developer to prevent people from moving files, picking the wrong installation directories or messing up the things on their harddisc.
We also do not want to technically prevent people from doing duplicate installations of VST2 plugins to different directories as this can be intended occasually.

I have given now several detailed answers here and provided very easy solutions.
I will not further discuss the topic here as it is already solved for anyone and we do not have a support forum on kvr.
You must use official places for support:
https://www.tone2.org/forum/
https://www.tone2.com/product-installation.html
https://www.tone2.com/report-a-bug.html
email: support[ a t]tone2[do t]com

[zvenx]

I know you say you are finished with it, but this may help others.
You mentioned something above which may explain the cause of my issue.

As a Cubendo user, the default location for vst2 plugins are : Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins, so most of my vst2 plugins are in there in subfolders. For instance I use to have Tone2 stuff in Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins\Tone2...

At some point you changed your installer so that it had a preferential location pre programmed (Program Files\Vstplugins).. and though you can manually put your desired destination in the installer, after doing that for awhile i got tired of doing it and said f' it and I moved my whole Tone2 folder from Steinberg\VSTPlugins to Vstplugins so I wouldn't have to keep redirecting your installer..
Works fine, except now I realise it may have been the issue why the Synthnamex64.exe was not being updated...

(PS for completeness I also moved some others like D16 and SoundToys for example, to the Vsplugins location since their installer too liked to use that as a default location)
rsp

[tumface]

If you move files after installation, the uninstaller will not be able to find them, and any files that cross-reference each other by path (like wrappers) will not be able to find each other. That's why the standalone wrapper was loading the wrong files, and why the uninstaller could not fix your situation. You can break most software that uses installers on Windows this way.

[zvenx]

No, i moved these years ago not recently. Several updates ago that is.
Also as you know tone2 tends to dump everything in the same folder not just the plugin. (Don't get me started on that practice).

Also the vst3's and presets all worked and updated fine after moving and updating over the years, its just the standalone.
And ftr no other developer stuff I moved like soundtoys and d16 and others had issues after I moved them and 'told' their installeds I had moved them.
rsp

[zvenx]

Anyway, all well for me now.
Hopefully jonsolo is good too now.
rsp

[tumface]

Also as you know tone2 tends to dump everything in the same folder not just the plugin. (Don't get me started on that practice).

Yeah, I also don't like that practice. I guess it's a holdover from the old free-wheelin' VST2 days, when everyone just spewed everything into the VST2 directory.

No, i moved these years ago not recently. Several updates ago that is.
...
Also the vst3's and presets all worked and updated fine after moving and updating over the years, its just the standalone.
And ftr no other developer stuff I moved like soundtoys and d16 and others had issues after I moved them and 'told' their installeds I had moved them.

Hmm, I don't think it's really sensitive to time. From what I can tell, the Tone2 wrappers find the "core" VST2 .dll (which contains the code and resources for the VST2 plugin as well as enough supporting code for the other formats) using registry keys stored at

Code: Select all

Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Tone2\

(One for each plugin.) I believe, but haven't tested, that the uninstaller also uses this path to know where to remove stuff from. (Could be wrong there.) So if that gets out of sync due to manually moving files around post-installation, hell can break loose until it's manually cleaned up.

I don't think D16 uses wrappers for their plugins, which is why they don't go wrong if you move them around. (But if you move D16 installed files around and run the uninstaller, it will fail to delete the moved files.)

Some of Korg's older plugins do the VST2->3 wrapping thing. I believe M1 and Wavestation and MDE-X. If you move the VST2 version of the file or delete it, the VST3 version will break.

Kilohearts and Plogue are some other companies that use wrappers, though they're wrapping generic shared library code and resources that are outside of a VST2 directory. If you move the underlying support files around, the plugins will break.

[Tone2 Synthesizers]

@tumface:
Thank you for your technical explanations tumface. You got deep knowledge how software works.
A side note for you: Our software is very robust and pretty smart. It doesn't crash when files are missing and it tries to fix broken references automatically if people mess up things. But there are situations where this doesn't work (like duplicate installations etc).

-------------------------------
For all others:

The wisdom below is true for 99% of all software. It affects:
- any software that comes with an installer
- any software that consists of more that a single file

You never should move or delete files that are part of an installation on your harddisc unless you know exactly how the software works. And this is usually only known to the developer. No matter what kind of software you are using - if you move / delete /alter files that are part of an installation this can:
- seriously damage software
- have unexpected side effects
- cause crashes
- the uninstaller later can't find all files and they will remain as garbage on your harddisc
- references to paths like registry entries or links are broken

If you want to change the directory of an installation you always should:
1) First properly uninstall the old version
2) Then run the installer and re-install it to the new directory

[zvenx]

....

Hmm, I don't think it's really sensitive to time. From what I can tell, the Tone2 wrappers find the "core" VST2 .dll (which contains the code and resources for the VST2 plugin as well as enough supporting code for the other formats) using registry keys stored at

Code: Select all

Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Tone2\

(One for each plugin.) I believe, but haven't tested, that the uninstaller also uses this path to know where to remove stuff from. (Could be wrong there.) So if that gets out of sync due to manually moving files around post-installation, hell can break loose until it's manually cleaned up.

...

By time sensitive I meant, the second part of the sentence, that is, I have done many tone2 updates since without what I thought was no installation problem.

Nope, as you can see from this GIF, registry does have the right location.
rsp