Does Bitwig seem like a daw that very few people want? Kind of a rant I guess.

[oscillik]

I also tried to donate a 27-inch 2015 iMac to a local cat rescue group and they refused it saying they were afraid it would become obsolete. All they do is browse the Web. Sheesh.

…but they're right: that machine is obsolete. The latest version of macOS it officially supports was EoL'd July 2024. You can't expect them to be aware of OpenCoreLegacyPatcher and the intricacies of having to deal with that, nor can you expect them to be putting Linux on there.

The device is literally on Apple's obsolete list.

It's really awesome of you to want to donate to them, many people wouldn't at all.

[jonljacobi]

Obsolete in what sense? That it can't be updated? Yes. In that it can't be used for just about anything you can do with a computer while using an "out of date" version of macOS and older software? Absolutely not. I can still sequence MIDI with my Atari ST. A Steerman biplane is almost a century out of date, but it still flies and is hell of a lot more fun than most modern aircraft.

That you don't have to be using the latest, greatest to get the job done is my point. It's just been ingrained into the modern consciousness that you're missing out if you aren't "up to date". Even when you don't need to be.

Apple's obsolete list? They would put last year's iPhone 16 and my M1 Max on there if they thought they could get away with it. LOL.

It was a friend's organization but another person's opinion that swayed her. Even pointing out that you can run any version of Windows natively didn't seem to sway them. Sigh.

But perhaps I'm being a bit hypocritical as I currently run an M4 Max Studio. Needed the Thunderbolt 5 for my day gig, or I never would've upgraded.

Thanks for the discussion!

[_leras]

I find the workflow in Bitwig unbearable. And while I'll prolly never be using Cubase to it's full potential at least I can use it.

Having moved from Cubase I find this quite a surprising statement.

Bitwig is much more fluid. Adding tracks, groups, FX all much simpler and more flexible.

If you want to do any routing like parallel or FX sends inside groups, Bitwig is simple, Cubase is much harder and can't always do what Bitwig does. Even reordering FX is a chore in Cubase and very easy in Bitwig.

You do need to get your head round the nested grouping structure but once you do it's a lot more powerful.

But my mixing template you say... Well in Bitwig you can set up a group FX chain, group it with one key press and save it as Mixbus Bass and can reload it for future tracks. Different but allows a lot of flexibility.

So workflow, to me, is much better in Bitwig. I'm not sure you tried it properly.

[stoopicus]

Obsolete in what sense?

Obsolete in the sense that it no longer receives even security update patches and is a time bomb for getting pwned by exploits. They were smart not to take it.

[stamp]

Well in Bitwig you can set up a group FX chain, group it with one key press and save it as Mixbus Bass and can reload it for future tracks. Different but allows a lot of flexibility.

Not possible anymore since v6 afaik.

[Igro]

I find the workflow in Bitwig unbearable. And while I'll prolly never be using Cubase to it's full potential at least I can use it.

Having moved from Cubase I find this quite a surprising statement.

Bitwig is much more fluid. Adding tracks, groups, FX all much simpler and more flexible.

If you want to do any routing like parallel or FX sends inside groups, Bitwig is simple, Cubase is much harder and can't always do what Bitwig does. Even reordering FX is a chore in Cubase and very easy in Bitwig.

You do need to get your head round the nested grouping structure but once you do it's a lot more powerful.

But my mixing template you say... Well in Bitwig you can set up a group FX chain, group it with one key press and save it as Mixbus Bass and can reload it for future tracks. Different but allows a lot of flexibility.

So workflow, to me, is much better in Bitwig. I'm not sure you tried it properly.

I got Cubase and I think that Bitwig's "fluidity" can be deceptive, especially if you use a lot of Bitwig plugins, that cannot be undocked. It adds more clicks to the workflow. At least in this department, Cubase is faster. It has a better overview of the project.

[_leras]

Well in Bitwig you can set up a group FX chain, group it with one key press and save it as Mixbus Bass and can reload it for future tracks. Different but allows a lot of flexibility.

Not possible anymore since v6 afaik.

Bitwig 6 beta seems fine with all of this stuff mentioned.

Its also quite a bit snappier and responsive, not that it was bad, but they've tweaked it in really nice ways and it's smoother to use now.

[jonljacobi]

Obsolete in what sense?

Obsolete in the sense that it no longer receives even security update patches and is a time bomb for getting pwned by exploits. They were smart not to take it.

Do you really believe that? I'm all for security, but that's a tad paranoid.

[seafire]

Obsolete in what sense?

Obsolete in the sense that it no longer receives even security update patches and is a time bomb for getting pwned by exploits. They were smart not to take it.

[stoopicus]

Obsolete in what sense?

Obsolete in the sense that it no longer receives even security update patches and is a time bomb for getting pwned by exploits. They were smart not to take it.

Do you really believe that? I'm all for security, but that's a tad paranoid.

It stopped receiving security updates in Sept 2024. Here is a list of the (known) Safari exploits - ones you can trigger from just browsing the web and following links - since then:

CVE-2024-44308 — Web content → arbitrary code execution (actively exploited reported)
CVE-2024-44155 — Custom URL scheme handling / input validation
CVE-2024-40866 / CVE-2024-44187 / related WebKit issues — Cross-origin / XSS / UI spoofing /
CVE-2024-44229 — Private Browsing information leak
CVE-2025-24201 — Web Content sandbox escape / out-of-bounds write (zero-day class reports in 2025)
CVE-2025-6558 (reported July 2025) — ANGLE / GPU validation → sandbox escape (patched July 2025)
Multiple 2025 WebKit memory/ OOB / use-after-free issues (examples: CVE-2025-43265, CVE-2025-7424/7425 etc.)

Chrome has more.

[aldipower]

Coming from Cubase (> 20 years on Windows), I had a detour with Bitwig for around 1 1/2 years, but moved on to Reaper now. Bitwig and Reaper was/is both on Linux. I am very happy with the state of Linux audio and moved away from Windows, because of it's distracting update behavior. But this shouldn't be the topic here. I am almost done with Bitwig because it has just too much flaws with my workflow. And I am positively baffled how much more pro and reliable Reaper is. I produced around 20 songs and an album with Bitwig the last year, but some things annoyed me more and more. Initially I was very happy though, because of the smooth feeling of the interface for example. I am recording external synths, vocals, electric guitar and so on. So mostly I am doing classic audio work with Bitwig and not using there Grid or other ITB instruments. But I like very much the stock audio plugins coming with Bitwig. For sequencing I am using an Atari ST with Cubase 3 from 1992 and this acts also as the midi clock, Bitwig is then synced as the slave and I multitrack my synths into Bitwig for example, controlled by the Atari. And it seems, this workflow is not intended to be done with Bitwig. The recorded audio is always in the so-called "stretch" mode and as the Atari Cubase is the master, Bitwig isn't able to align the transients to the correct clock and there is just no default setting for a "raw" mode, not intended. Every other DAW has a "raw" mode per default. In Bitwig you even cannot set it to that as a default. Secondly, I had the idea to replace the Atari ST Cubase sequencer also with Bitwig, obvious, right? But when recording MIDI, Bitwig invents somehow midi notes, which makes it unusable as a sequencer with my external instruments. I could give prove to the support by running midi monitors and Reaper, that it is somehow Bitwig related. But the communication with the support wasn't directly encouraging to say it this way around. I've felt a _bit_ like a _wig_ when writing with them. So I guess, people who wants to sequence and record audio from out of the box, they are not their target customers? At least the Digital in DAW they nailed already, but A W needs to have still some improvements.

[xbitz]

^^^ But the Grid is the whole point — a Reaktor-like environment, only much easier to handle, that kind of setup isn’t common in DAWs. The fact that incoming audio can be split into any number of paths and routed into all sorts of triggering gizmos is brilliant — it makes it really easy to spin out whatever’s in your head.


etc.
brilliant for sketching ideas — you can get your thoughts out instantly... I don’t like using it as a generator either, but it’s handy for custom trance gate, stutter whatever effects... Without the Grid, there are probably better DAWs — or at least ones that feel more complete.

[Boudin]

I also tried to donate a 27-inch 2015 iMac to a local cat rescue group and they refused it saying they were afraid it would become obsolete. All they do is browse the Web. Sheesh. Finally found a buyer for $300 after I told them they could always convert it to a display later using Aliexpress parts. I probably should've done that. 5K display for $450?

Yes, I Also got betrayed by apple. I purchased a 2400 €, I7 iMac 5 years ago, the last compatible OS will be TAHOE. So soon no more security updates for my Mac. I wanted to sell it 2 years ago and buy a new iMac but the 27 '' is not available with the silicon ship, only 24 ''. So I would have to buy a Mac mini and a 1749 € 27 '' apple display + 1000 € a middle range Mac mini + a Magic Mouse : 2800 € ! That sounds crazy.
You can buy refurbished iMac 27" for less than 500 €
I think next to bite the dust is my M1 MacBook. Apple you suck, a law will be voted in France for programmed obsolescence, I hope Apple will be fined several millions € !!!

[_leras]

I got Cubase and I think that Bitwig's "fluidity" can be deceptive, especially if you use a lot of Bitwig plugins, that cannot be undocked. It adds more clicks to the workflow. At least in this department, Cubase is faster. It has a better overview of the project.

I'm specifically talking about adding, grouping, routing fx and instruments here - makes decisions around these things in creation and mixing very fluid.

How do the built in plug ins not undocking add more clicks? it's more clicks to open a third party plug ins, the built in have the controls right there. (fwiw I use more third party plugins)

[Tracewidth]

Bitwig Studio is a love/hate thing with me, even more than Ableton is. Bitwig is *confident*. It confidently has the grid and modulation/container complexity, and it confidently has a terrible manual. It confidently establishes its aesthetic and symbology on the screen and its stock presets confidently sound awful (in the main). Etc.

Every second time I start it up I have a great time.