ShaperBox latency issues in some DAWs [read this before you buy]

[Rastkovic]

To be honest, I never really used ShaperBox. So I'm a bit surprised. Is it common knowledge, that ShaperBox cannot compensate for latency caused by other plugins, when set to sync mode? Same Problem with Kickstart2.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong? I could render to audio before using ShaperBox, but that would be a big bummer.

How does other Volume Shaper perform, same problem?

shaperbox-latency.png

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edit

More information on this topic, buried in the Cableguys FAQ section:

https://www.cableguys.com/support/audio ... aq-latency

faq-out-of-sync.png

If there are known latency issues since 2011, then this product information from the ShaperBox site can't be right:

works-with.png

[nanostream]

I don’t know about different Volume Shapers, but under certain conditions Live struggles with latency issues like that. I’m triggering ShaperBox with MIDI to get around that (potential) problem.

[Trancit]

The problem isn´t Shaperbox...
The problem is Ableton Live!

Ableton isn´t able to compensate for latency between plugins on the same track so every plugin causing latency you insert before a "synced" plugin will put it "out of sync".
This is a well documented problem which exists since ages in Live... they tried to work on it but failed and told the userbase they´ll have to live with it...
The only option in that situation you´ve got in Live is to trigger the envelopes via Midi or Audio SC or just avoid to use latency plugins in front of such "synced" ones but rather behind...

[Rastkovic]

The problem isn´t Shaperbox...
The problem is Ableton Live!

Ableton isn´t able to compensate for latency between plugins on the same track so every plugin causing latency you insert before a "synced" plugin will put it "out of sync".
This is a well documented problem which exists since ages in Live... they tried to work on it but failed and told the userbase they´ll have to live with it...
The only option in that situation you´ve got in Live is to trigger the envelopes via Midi or Audio SC or just avoid to use latency plugins in front of such "synced" ones but rather behind...

You are right, I found it in the knowledge base. Interesting, I never thought about that. I'm pretty sure, not everyone is aware of this. Kickstart2 is also popular among Live users.

Well, once you know it, you can deal with it. You can put ShaperBox in front of the FX chain and in my specific case above, I can use KClip3 instead of Pro-L.

Thank you for your reply.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... sation-FAQ

delay-compensation.png

[Rastkovic]

I don’t know about different Volume Shapers, but under certain conditions Live struggles with latency issues like that. I’m triggering ShaperBox with MIDI to get around that (potential) problem.

Yes, that works quite well with simple ducking, but when it comes to different mod lengths, this is unfortunately not an option.

Thank you for your reply, too.

mod-sequence.png

[nanostream]

I don’t know about different Volume Shapers, but under certain conditions Live struggles with latency issues like that. I’m triggering ShaperBox with MIDI to get around that (potential) problem.

Yes, that works quite well with simple ducking, but when it comes to different mod lengths, this is unfortunately not an option.

This shouldn’t be a problem, you can trigger the envelope whenever you want with midi notes on a different track. Every bar, every 3/8 etc, or completely arbitrarily, if you wish.

This isn’t only very flexible, but you don’t have to think about where ShaperBox is located within the plugin chain. Also, it gives you the freedom to place ShaperBox further down the chain, something you’ll probably want at least from time to time for sound design reasons, without having to worry about timing issues.

It’s a bit convoluted to set up initially, but for me it’s worth the hassle.

[Rastkovic]

I don’t know about different Volume Shapers, but under certain conditions Live struggles with latency issues like that. I’m triggering ShaperBox with MIDI to get around that (potential) problem.

Yes, that works quite well with simple ducking, but when it comes to different mod lengths, this is unfortunately not an option.

This shouldn’t be a problem, you can trigger the envelope whenever you want with midi notes on a different track. Every bar, every 3/8 etc, or completely arbitrarily, if you wish.

Depending on what you trying to achieve, it is a "problem". That's how it would look like, if you create the mod sequence above with a midi trigger. The envelope would be reset on shorter lengths.

mod-sequence-2.png

[Rastkovic]

So this is already very Live specific here, this might be helpful for someone. I saw it in a CableGuys YT video a while ago.

With the External Instrument device, you can route the midi input from the instrument to ShaperBox. ShaperBox is placed in the Largo2 chain. In this example 4th notes were played, the 16th notes were generated with the Arpeggiator device, which is placed before Largo.

ext-instrument.png

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I would suggest editing the thread title to "Ableton Live can't compensate for latency" or something.

Someone scanning the forum might scan the forum, see "Shaperbox can't..." and never learn that it's a live problem. Then they might avoid buying Shaperbox thinking it's buggy.

So editing the thread title would just be a good thing to do. The Cableguys team have made a great product.

[nanostream]

Agree, and also, Rastkovic should read the manuals of both products first. Or again, to get the most out of it

[Rastkovic]

So editing the thread title would just be a good thing to do. The Cableguys team have made a great product.

Edited. Thanks for the tip.

*also added some additional information to the first topic

[Trancit]

So editing the thread title would just be a good thing to do. The Cableguys team have made a great product.

Edited. Thanks for the tip.

*also added some additional information to the first topic

You edited it the wrong way... now Shaperbox sounds even more guilty but isn´t...
A plugin cannot be made responsible for lack of latency compensation which is clearly the fault of the DAW...
And it´s not just Shaperbox... you have the same issues with LFOTool and all other other "synced" plugins...
Imo Shaperbox should be completely removed from the topic title

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Agreed.

This isn't an issue of Shaperbox having issues in Live and Logic. It's an issue of "Live and Logic have sh*t plugin delay compensation, and that impacts many plugins including Shaperbox".

[scott_free]

^^Agree^^

The thread title is certainly misleading because the latency issues are DAW issues, not Shaperbox issues.

A better thread title might be something like, "Live and Logic Latency Issues with Certain Plugin Chains."