Proxima - Synapse Audio

[tumface]

You did because you called it "challenge-response", which implies an internet connection is ALWAYS required.

No. Challenge-response means the software running locally on your computer generates a challenge code, which the remote server (run by the developer) is given, and then returns a response code which the software is waiting to read and verify before proceeding.

"Alway-on connection required" or "always-on internet" is what is used to refer to systems which require computers being always online.

You may only be allowed three instances by the licensing agreement but that is not a physical limitation of the software. The fact you can do off-line activation ensures that. And As I've said, I've installed DUEN on at least a dozen computers over the years and never had any problem with activation limits. It just keeps installing and activating.

The manual and website says that 3 activations is the limit. I haven't tried to go over it, so I will assume you are correct that the limit isn't enforced by the activation server. That's good to hear.

You need internet access to download the installer anyway, so what's the problem? We live in a highly connected world.

No. I need an internet connection only once to download the installer. I save it on a hard drive, which I also back up. I don't need an internet connection to download it, after that. However, because of the enforced challenge-response activation requirement, Synapse Audio's activation server needs to still be operational, and I do need some sort of internet connection -- either on the music computer, or another computer or device -- to activate a new installation.

If that requirement didn't exist, I could know that the software I paid for will still be installable in 20 years, assuming I keep a computer which is compatible with it. I have a Macintosh G4 here next to me, by the way, from 24 years ago, which can still run my old software and projects from the late 90s and early 2000s. I'm great at parties.

Maybe it sounds like a theoretical, made-up problem, but I've already been burned by shut-down activation servers for multiple products. Lessons hard-learned.

I'm not saying I won't ever use products like this. One of the DAWs I use is Bitwig, which has an online activation requirement. But, in the back of my head, I hesitate each time I add something new to my toolkit which has an online activation requirement. Each new one I add is a thing that will have some sort of guaranteed failure point in the future.

If Synapse Audio sold Proxima and Dune 3 at double the cost but without the activation requirement, I would pay for that without hesitation.

You are very definitely getting it wrong, as you have proven by pasting the activation procedure in here. It tells you exactly how to license your product off-line if you can't access the servers.

No, it tells you how to access Synapse Audio's licensing servers from a computer that's online but which isn't your music computer. If Synapse Audio's licensing servers go offline, you can't activate new installations of Synapse Audio products.

[sqigls]

installed demo, used once then demo expired.
wheeeert

[D-Fusion]

I had to ask many time for a reset of the activation limit the first year i had my Intel 12th Cpu when it was new but i remember that it took more than 3 Activations before i saw the message that i had hit the activation limit and that i had to contact the support to reset it.

The problem i encountered was that the 12th gen was a new type of cpu with E-Cores and P-Cores and i had to install new Bios versions very often the first year because of the new Scheduling system and for stability and the newer Bios version broke the Activation every time on my system.

They where quick and helpful when i needed a Re-Activation and i think they got a little suspicious after the third time which i can understand and i would probably have had some questions myself if it was my company so they asked me why i needed so many activations and after i explained what the issue was and that i might need more until the System was stable they didn't ask me again about it

What i do wish is that they would change the Activation system so we could De-Activate unused activations on our own like you can do with the Arturia plugins, Studio One, Bitwig, Cherry Audio and other companies.

[tumface]

I had to ask many time for a reset of the activation limit the first year i had my Intel 12th Cpu when it was new but i remember that it took more than 3 Activations before i saw the message that i had hit the activation limit and that i had to contact the support to reset it.

OK, so there is an activation limit, and the other poster was wrong about that, as well. Good to know.

[pchase]

They where quick and helpful when i needed a Re-Activation and i think they got a little suspicious after the third time

Pretty much sums up this type of DRM, you're not really paying for a product outright or even a *license* to use the product outright, you're paying to enter an ongoing relationship with the company where you're always under their control and you'd better hope they don't get too 'suspicious' of you, go out of business, cease to exist or just get bored and lose interest.

You don't just have to asses the value of the product when deciding if you want to purchase it, it's as much about trying to gague the seller and whether this relationship will work. Does it seem like the business will go on as long as you would want it to? Do they seem to have multiple employees, or a bus factor of 1? Do they seem forgiving, or are they the type to get suspicious of you for some reason, maybe because they don't even understand the implications of how their own DRM works (as it might seem with your CPU/BIOS example).

[Papleras]

installed demo, used once then demo expired.
wheeeert

If you close your DAW and open it again, it will work again. A bit annoying, I was confused the first time as well.

[Richard_Synapse]

The manual and website says that 3 activations is the limit. I haven't tried to go over it, so I will assume you are correct that the limit isn't enforced by the activation server. That's good to hear.

Yes correct, this means simultaneous activations. So you cannot activate on 10 different computers within a day, for instance. The idea is very simple here. If 10 different users activate the same software using the same serial key on the same day, this cannot possibly be legitimate usage. Preventing this is the only purpose of the protection.

No, it tells you how to access Synapse Audio's licensing servers from a computer that's online but which isn't your music computer. If Synapse Audio's licensing servers go offline, you can't activate new installations of Synapse Audio products.

There is a backup server in a different country. The odds of both being down simultaneously are very slim, and if it ever happens, we would simply add a 3rd activation server.

Richard

[seafire]

Proxima HZ someday ?

He's probably too busy with his new modular

[pchase]

Yes correct, this means simultaneous activations. So you cannot activate on 10 different computers within a day, for instance. The idea is very simple here. If 10 different users activate the same software using the same serial key on the same day, this cannot possibly be legitimate usage. Preventing this is the only purpose of the protection.

This is exactly that suspicion of your customers that they're buying into though - just above in this thread you have a legitimate customer who was caught by exactly the limit you mention while doing what you claim "cannot possibly be legitimate usage". They customer support had the same view, and they had to explain how it "could" possibly be. Luckily they were persuasive.

There is a backup server in a different country. The odds of both being down simultaneously are very slim, and if it ever happens, we would simply add a 3rd activation server.

Which is good to hear, but ongoing use of the products do depend on you continuing to pay those server costs at your own whim.

I do own multiple of your synths so I willingly buy into this relationship and consider it worth it in this case, and some others, but still, it always requires careful consideration.

[Examigan]

What i do wish is that they would change the Activation system so we could De-Activate unused activations on our own like you can do with the Arturia plugins, Studio One, Bitwig, Cherry Audio and other companies.

I also like that type of access to deactivate plugins. A few other examples are LennarDigital (Sylenth1), iLOK, Plugin Alliance, etc.

[Richard_Synapse]

This is exactly that suspicion of your customers that they're buying into though - just above in this thread you have a legitimate customer who was caught by exactly the limit you mention while doing what you claim "cannot possibly be legitimate usage". They customer support had the same view, and they had to explain how it "could" possibly be. Luckily they were persuasive.

If there had been persistent issues with our simple activation mechanism, we would have abandoned it long ago. However, this is not the case. Of course, there are always rare edge cases, but these can occur with any type of issue. For example, you could use an obscure DAW utilized by only a handful of producers worldwide, and something might not work properly because it has never been tested by anyone. The DAW/Plug-in interaction is inherently complex, there’s always the potential for something to go wrong for someone, somewhere. It’s in our best interest to minimize issues wherever possible, and we do our utmost to achieve this. And if something does not work, we're there to help

Richard

[Richard_Synapse]

What i do wish is that they would change the Activation system so we could De-Activate unused activations on our own like you can do with the Arturia plugins, Studio One, Bitwig, Cherry Audio and other companies.

I also like that type of access to deactivate plugins. A few other examples are LennarDigital (Sylenth1), iLOK, Plugin Alliance, etc.

Will plug-ins that allow this connect to the internet all the time? If so, that would be a much stricter protection than what we currently use. I personally do not like a forced internet connection when opening plug-ins that have already been authorized, or software services permanently running in the background. If there is a way to do it without, we'll be happy to look into it.

Richard

[dmetsys]

IIRC, I have read the post from Synapse Audio's own forum page saying that, even if you have already activated up to 3 machines, it is not required to deactivate or remove old license from old device when you should install Synapse Audio's plug-in on new computer as long as it is not simultaneous usage of more than 3 machines. If it is still their policy, although there could be some exceptional situations, for most cases it seems like that the request to Synapse Audio for activation reset is not always necessary.

[Vortifex]

He's probably too busy with his new modular

Can't wait to hear his ambient drone jam!

[tumface]

Yes correct, this means simultaneous activations. So you cannot activate on 10 different computers within a day, for instance. The idea is very simple here. If 10 different users activate the same software using the same serial key on the same day, this cannot possibly be legitimate usage. Preventing this is the only purpose of the protection.

Yeah, that's fine. I understand the purpose of it. As a user, it's not what I prefer, but sometimes I will be willing to tolerate it. I know that lots of other people don't care about it, and maybe a small % care more than me. My preferred way is public+private serial key signature checking, like what FabFilter and REAPER use, which don't require activation checks. That method isn't as good at stopping key sharing amongst friends, but it does completely stop keygens.

There is a backup server in a different country. The odds of both being down simultaneously are very slim, and if it ever happens, we would simply add a 3rd activation server.

With regards to servers being taken offline, I'm more worried about 10 years from now, or if ownership changes hands. I know you have no intention of doing anything foul.

Will plug-ins that allow this connect to the internet all the time? If so, that would be a much stricter protection than what we currently use. I personally do not like a forced internet connection when opening plug-ins that have already been authorized, or software services permanently running in the background. If there is a way to do it without, we'll be happy to look into it.

I believe those systems allow users to run an action that removes the authorization locally from the computer, and then notifies the server that the authorization was removed, freeing the slot back up. In theory, they don't require being always online. Only when activating and deactivating.

I don't really like having to micro-manage activation slots, either. I'd rather just not have to think about it, and have unlimited activation slots with a sanity check on the server for a large number of activations in a short period of time.

I definitely do not like iLok's intrusive system, which does all that background junk you mentioned, plus tries to detect suspicious activity in DAW processes and crashes them on purpose sometimes. I banished iLok from my life over a decade ago and I'm never going back.

I don't use any plugins from those other companies that were mentioned, since almost no plugins are good enough to meet my minimum bar for tolerating online activation. Dune 3 is one of them, though.