Emulating specific classic samplers

[brownerthanu]

I’m sure this has been discussed before but none of my searches turned up the info I was looking for. Are there known settings for Tal Sampler to emulate specific classic samplers such as the Emax?

[brownerthanu]

Bumping this in case anyone knows.

[planetearth]

I’m sure this has been discussed before but none of my searches turned up the info I was looking for. Are there known settings for Tal Sampler to emulate specific classic samplers such as the Emax?

What, specifically, are you trying to emulate? The TAL-Sampler offers different DAC emulations (and options), and is specifically designed with a more limited feature set, like older samplers had. If you're trying to emulate the Emax's sound, you probably have just as good a chance with TAL-Sampler as you do with any other plug-in. Of course, TAL can't replace the Emax's analog filter or chorus, but it's generally rated very well for what it does. (I've used it, but not to emulate any specific sampler. But it's fun to use.)

For what it's worth, 've seen plug-ins to emulate the Akai S950 converters, and Arturia has an Emulator II erm...emulation, but I haven't seen anything trying to emulate the Emax.

Steve

[brownerthanu]

I’m sure this has been discussed before but none of my searches turned up the info I was looking for. Are there known settings for Tal Sampler to emulate specific classic samplers such as the Emax?

What, specifically, are you trying to emulate? The TAL-Sampler offers different DAC emulations (and options), and is specifically designed with a more limited feature set, like older samplers had. If you're trying to emulate the Emax's sound, you probably have just as good a chance with TAL-Sampler as you do with any other plug-in. Of course, TAL can't replace the Emax's analog filter or chorus, but it's generally rated very well for what it does. (I've used it, but not to emulate any specific sampler. But it's fun to use.)

For what it's worth, 've seen plug-ins to emulate the Akai S950 converters, and Arturia has an Emulator II erm...emulation, but I haven't seen anything trying to emulate the Emax.

Steve

Thanks for the reply. I think I'd like to know what the rough settings would be for the Emax, S1000, S950, EII, Mirage.

[Uncle E]

Thanks for the reply. I think I'd like to know what the rough settings would be for the Emax, S1000, S950, EII, Mirage.

Use Emu II resampler for EMAX and EII, and use LP 4PN filters for both. Use SR 27000 for EII and set it anywhere between 10000 and 42000 for EMAX.

Use S 1000 resampler for S1000 and S950. S950 has variable sample rate, while S1000 is either 44.1 or 22.05. Use BW 6P filter for S950 and use either LP 4P or LP 3PN for S1000 (LP 3P would be best but TAL Sampler doesn't have that).

Also, check out Amigo for S950. I'm not sure if TAL Sampler does the clock frequency thing that Amigo and the S950 do.

[planetearth]

Thanks for the reply. I think I'd like to know what the rough settings would be for the Emax, S1000, S950, EII, Mirage.

Use Emu II resampler for EMAX and EII, and use LP 4PN filters for both. Use SR 27000 for EII and set it anywhere between 10000 and 42000 for EMAX.

Use S 1000 resampler for S1000 and S950. S950 has variable sample rate, while S1000 is either 44.1 or 22.05. Use BW 6P filter for S950 and use either LP 4P or LP 3PN for S1000 (LP 3P would be best but TAL Sampler doesn't have that).

Also, check out Amigo for S950. I'm not sure if TAL Sampler does the clock frequency thing that Amigo and the S950 do.

There you go!

Wasn’t Amigo supposed to “emulate” (more or less) the Commodore Amiga and Ensoniq Mirage? I stopped following its development when people started clamoring for more features that weren’t in the original hardware.

TAL-Sampler can adjust the sample rate to change the pitch, if that’s what you’re referring to.

@brownerthanu, Inphonik’s RX950 is supposed to emulate the ADC and DAC signal path of the Akai S950. You might find that more accurate than what TAL-Sampler does.
https://www.inphonik.com/products/rx950 ... converter/

[brownerthanu]

Thanks for the pointers. I’m also curious about what settings compand, hiss, jitter should be set at. Those seem to me to be the more subtle but important settings. I’ve been adjusting by ear, but am curious if folks know the levels that align with classic samplers.

@planetearth I already have RX950 and love it, especially on drums.

[mcbpete]

This is definitely a feature I'd love to see in TAL sampler, to quote myself from another thread:

[*]Yamaha VSS-30 and/or Casio SK DAC emulation

This is definitely something I'd personally love to see developed over everything else. Not just these but any sampler emulation - we've got the Emu II, AM6070, S1000 but imagine if it had all these too (from Chipcrusher documentation):

Simple Encodings
-PCM (Linear Pulse-Code Modulation): Examples: Compact Disc (if 16-bit/44.1kHz), E-Mu SP12 (12-bit/27.5kHz) E-Mu SP1200 (12-bit/26.04kHz) <- Already present in TAL-Sampler
-FPCM (Floating-point pulse-code modulation): Example: The YM301X series DAC used for Yamaha’s 4OP FM synthesizers encoded audio on 10.3-bits.
-DPCM (Differential pulse-code modulation): Example: Delta modulation channel provided by the RP2A03/RP2A07 CPUs used in the Big N’s 8-bit console uses Bits=6 and Parameter=1

Adaptive Encodings
-BRR (Bit Rate Reduction) Example: Specific ADPCM Encoding used in the S-DSP of the SNES.
-YADPCM : Examples: N’s ‘wii-mote’ and various Yamaha FM chips for sample playback.
-HAAR Transform: A unique blend of triangle waveforms.
-A-Law and μ-Law: Examples: Early US samplers and drum machines which used AM6070/AM6072 ICs like the LINN Drum machines, and the E-MU Emulator I/II/Drumulator. <- Already present in TAL-Sampler
-DIALOGIC: Example: MSM(OKI)6295 Used in LOTS of late 80′s and early 90′s arcade titles (All non Q-sound CPS1 titles)
-CVSD (continuously variable slope delta modulation): Example: Suzanne Ciani's voice in the Pinball classic 'Xenon'

1-bit Density Encodings
-PWM (Pulse-width modulation): Examples: Some legacy software on the Apple II SoftDAC (3 and 4-bit versions) and DAC522. You will find that they are NASTY sounding. You have been warned.
-PDM (Pulse-density modulation): This is usually run at VERY high sample rates, SACD/DSD uses 2.8224 MHz, but since here we only have straight PCM for input, whose rate depends on the host rate (typically 44.1/48/96kHz), it is quite useless to use PDM at higher frequency, since we don’t have extra information to encode in time.

Vocal Encodings
-LPC10: Example: Speak & Spell
-MOZER: Example: Berzerk, Impossible Mission
-SP0256: Example: Intellivoice, Various speech modules for vintage computers.

Imagine a big drop down menu split into something like:
Professional Samplers
Sampling Keyboards
Computers / Consoles
Toys

and each of those with sub sections of brands (e.g. Akai, Ensoniq, E-Mu Systems, etc.).

TAL-Sampler wouldn't just be a sampler, it'd be ALL the samplers (Hey, I can dream !)

[Uncle E]

It's a good idea that would help him sell more. Plus, for a lot of them, he's already done the hard work, it would simply be a matter of making presets/modes for them.

[brownerthanu]

It's a good idea that would help him sell more. Plus, for a lot of them, he's already done the hard work, it would simply be a matter of making presets/modes for them.

Totally it would be a huge draw.

[planetearth]

Many of those would be very interesting to hear, but I don't know how practical (or possible) it would be to implement some of them. I know there are limitations to emulating certain sampler hardware designs (such as the Fairlight CMI and the Synclavier II), and things like changing the sample rate on a per-voice basis isn't easy to do in a general-purpose computer with an audio interface DAC that isn't designed to do that.

Also, audio engineers worked extensively with some of those sample recording and playback methods to get the best results they could from them at the time. Most people today simply won't get the same results, and may give up on some of the more..."esoteric" designs, thinking they're either flawed or useless. I doubt the developers at TAL would find it a practical use of their time to implement emulations that might take people weeks or months to get the best sound from.

The only plug-in "samplers" available today (that I'm aware of) which actually sample are the TX16Wx (from TX16Wx.com) and, ironically, the plug-in version of the Yamaha TX16 (from Sonic Charge). The Emulator X3 standalone app can also sample, though it's not used much these days. (I've heard Halion is supposed to sample, but I don't have it so I can't confirm that.) There may be a few others, but most of today's "samplers" are, in fact, ROMplers (looking at you, Kontakt). Without the actual sample part of creating sounds with these classic samplers, you're arguably going to be missing half the sound that makes these samplers "classic"—especially in the case of some of the E-MU and Ensoniq samplers that did interesting things to get the best sound they could from their relatively limited resources.

I would definitely like to see and hear more about how some of the old samplers worked, along with the pros and cons of each method some of them tried. But I'm just not sure it's easy or practical to implement in an off-the-shelf computer with today's audio interfaces. I think more people would simply "throw a bitcrusher on it" to emulate an old sampler. That doesn't do the same thing at all, but for many people, it may be enough.

Steve