VST3 to VST2

[whyterabbyt]

Right, so your argument boils down to "if Ableton adds CLAP support, more DAWs will support CLAP." Groundbreaking stuff that.

Actually it was "if Ableton adds CLAP support, your groundbreaking assertion that some DAWS dont support CLAP will be diminished."
But good try.

And CLAP is... what exactly? A minor tweak to VST3? No, it's also "an entirely new thing"

Yes we know. Groundbreaking stuff, that.

that arrived 14 years later solving problems VST3 had already addressed.

And others that it hadnt

At least VST3 had the excuse of replacing a genuinely outdated standard.

So the 9-year-old VST2 standard was 'genuinely outdated', but the 17-year-old VST3 standard isnt?
Interesting.

Go on then - what's the right difference? What does CLAP offer that VST3 with MIT licensing doesn't?

So you didnt actually read the information that the CLAP developers provide at https://www.cleveraudio.org/the-story-and-mission/
Or are you not a programmer, and dont understand it?

Because you've spent plenty of posts dodging that question whilst banging on about hypothetical Ableton support

Actually I didnt bang on about it, I mentioned it once in passing, and you're the one who kept banging on about it, thus prompting me to respond. As you did again in the very post Im responding to.
Sounds like you think you get to trying to refute about things I said, but Im supposedly not allowed to respond when you do.
And that you somehow think that my entire argument is undermined if I do.

and semantic arguments about what counts as "evolution."

It wasnt a semantic argument, it was a technical one. Again, are you a programmer?

Don't particularly care what you use mate. I'm just pointing out it's redundant.

Nah, you're really not. You're trying to claim its redundant, but that's not 'just' what you're doing.

Feel free to prove otherwise with actual technical advantages rather than "but what if Ableton..."

See, there you go, hypocritically banging on about Ableton again. Its an interesting last leg for you to be standing on.

[IvyBirds]

Nope because it's the industry standard

No, its merely a standard, not 'the' standard. Your repetition isnt proof, remember?

and the plugin format that works with the most DAWs, Video Editors, and hosts

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Show us the evidence of that, then.

VST3 is the industry standard because it is the most widely supported and adopted audio plugin format

Every single DAW that can use CLAP also supports VST3, while there are multiple DAWs including extremely popular ones with very large user bases ones like Abelton Live and Cubase that support VST3 but do not support CLAP

But beyond that here is a question for you, why don't you explain why in November 2025 people should abandon VST3 in flavor of CLAP.

[soniccraft]

So you didnt actually read the information that the CLAP developers provide at https://www.cleveraudio.org/the-story-and-mission/
Or are you not a programmer, and dont understand it?

Oh I've read it. It's marketing fluff. "Simplicity, clarity, robustness" - brilliant. VST3 couldn't possibly claim those. "Modern features like Note Expressions" - VST3 has had note expression since version 3.5 in 2011. "Parameter modulation" - VST3's had automation for years. The actual technical "advantage" they bang on about? Thread management and metadata retrieval being slightly cleaner. Groundbreaking stuff that'll revolutionize music production, I'm sure.

So the 9-year-old VST2 standard was 'genuinely outdated', but the 17-year-old VST3 standard isnt?

VST2 was outdated relative to what VST3 offered. CLAP's main selling point was licensing. Now VST3 is MIT licensed. What's left? Marginal API design preferences?

And others that it hadnt

Such as? Specifically. Because you've danced around this for several posts now without naming a single concrete technical advantage CLAP has over MIT-licensed VST3 that actually matters to working professionals.

The reality is CLAP was created because Steinberg's licensing was restrictive. That problem's solved. Everything else is just developers at u-he and Bitwig preferring their own API design. Fair enough, but that's not a compelling reason for the entire industry to adopt yet another format.

[whyterabbyt]

VST3 is the industry standard because it is the most widely supported and adopted audio plugin format

In which year did it become the most widely supported and adopted audio plugin format?

And was that before or after Steinberg revoked developer's right to use the VST2 format?

If CLAP became the more widely supported and adopted format, would you be arguing that VST3 was redundant?

But beyond that here is a question for you, why don't you explain why in November 2025 people should abandon VST3 in flavor of CLAP.

Why should I explain a thing I have never said?

[whyterabbyt]

Oh I've read it. It's marketing fluff
.
.
. CLAP's main selling point was licensing.
Now VST3 is MIT licensed[/url]. What's left?

Ah, right. And of course you'd never be cherry picking what counts or not to sustain your argument.

Everything else is just developers at u-he and Bitwig preferring their own API design. Fair enough, but that's not a compelling reason for the entire industry to adopt yet another format.

Im sure you are glad you get to decide that on behalf of that part of the industry which has already adopted another format.

[soniccraft]

Ah, right. Of course you'd cherry picking what counts or not to sustain your argument.

I asked you four times to name specific technical advantages. You pointed me to their marketing page. I addressed the features they listed. That's not cherry-picking, that's responding to what you provided.
Still waiting for you to name one concrete advantage that actually matters in practice. "Cleaner thread documentation" isn't it.

Im sure you are glad you get to decide that on behalf of that part of the industry which has already adopted another format.

Nobody's deciding anything "on behalf" of anyone. I'm pointing out that CLAP's adoption after three years is Bitwig, Reaper, FL Studio (recently), and Studio One (recently). Meanwhile VST3 works everywhere those do plus Ableton, Cubase, and the rest.

Developers can build for CLAP all they like. Users can choose it if they want. But pretending it's not redundant now that its primary raison d'être (licensing) has been addressed is just being deliberately obtuse.

You've had five posts to articulate why CLAP matters post-MIT-VST3 and haven't managed it. I'm out.

[whyterabbyt]

Developers can build for CLAP all they like. Users can choose it if they want. But pretending it's not redundant now that the thing I, soniccraft, have decided is its primary raison d'être (licensing) has been addressed is just being deliberately obtuse.

ftfy.

You've had five posts to articulate why CLAP matters post-MIT-VST3 and haven't managed it.

It matters for the exact same reasons it did before Steinberg copied their licensing, despite your failed attempt to prove otherwise. Deal with it.

Honestly, its like some people think Steinberg changed their license to the same as CLAP's solely for the purest and most philanthropic reasons. And somehow are so beatific and sainted they'd never do anything like introduce an entirely new API, and retroactively repeal anyone's right to use an older API.


(And in case someone gets all Liarbirds-level illiterate again, I said 'Steinberg copied their licensing' not 'CLAP invented the MIT license.' Copied their licensing, not 'made a duplicate of a license they wrote', dumbasses.)

I'm out.

Door, ass.

[IvyBirds]

VST3 is the industry standard because it is the most widely supported and adopted audio plugin format

In which year did it become the most widely supported and adopted audio plugin format?

And was that before or after Steinberg revoked developer's right to use the VST2 format?

If CLAP became the more widely supported and adopted format, would you be arguing that VST3 was redundant?

But beyond that here is a question for you, why don't you explain why in November 2025 people should abandon VST3 in flavor of CLAP.

Why should I explain a thing I have never said?

As I have said before many times including in this thread, I would be happy to use CLAP instead of VST3 if there is a compelling reason for me to do so

So I will ask you again, why in 2025 should anyone use CLAP over VST3? If you are a Logic user you have a compelling reason to use AU, if you are a Pro Tools user you have a compelling reason to use AAX, but if you use pretty much every other DAW why would you use CLAP over VST3?

It's rather telling you can't answer that simple question.

I own Bitwig, Studio One, Cubase, Abelton, Acid and Pro Tools. I can use my VST3 plugins in all of them yes even in Pro Tools. I also own every single U-he plugin. Why would I use the CLAP versions of Diva, or Zebra when I can use the VST3 version? Hilarious you won't answer that question and instead are twisting in the wind

[whyterabbyt]

So I will ask you again, why in 2025 should anyone use CLAP over VST3? If you are a Logic user you have a compelling reason to use AU, if you are a Pro Tools user you have a compelling reason to use AAX, but if you use pretty much every other DAW why would you use CLAP over VST3?

It's rather telling you can't answer that simple question.

Oh god, there you go with your fallacies again.

Its not 'rather telling' that I dont answer that pointless question.

Im not actually here to do your research for you, and have no interest in doing the 'speaking for everyone else' that you make your stock in trade.
So if you want to know why any given CLAP user finds it compelling to use CLAP over VST3, go ask them.
But once you've asked them, dont come back here and pretend that you have some universal ubiquitous and binding truth for us. We already see you pretending that, and noone here is convinced.

[whyterabbyt]

I own Bitwig, Studio One, Cubase, Abelton, Acid and Pro Tools. I can use my VST3 plugins in all of them yes even in Pro Tools. I also own every single U-he plugin. Why would I use the CLAP versions of Diva, or Zebra when I can use the VST3 version? Hilarious you won't answer that question and instead are twisting in the wind

Its hilarious that you're asserting I should care enough about what you do to know why you choose to do anything.

[IvyBirds]

So I will ask you again, why in 2025 should anyone use CLAP over VST3? If you are a Logic user you have a compelling reason to use AU, if you are a Pro Tools user you have a compelling reason to use AAX, but if you use pretty much every other DAW why would you use CLAP over VST3?

It's rather telling you can't answer that simple question.

Oh god, there you go with your fallacies again.

Its not 'rather telling' that I dont answer that pointless question.

Im not here to do your f**king research for you, and have no interest in, doing the 'speaking for everyone else' that you make your stock in trade.
If you want to know why any given CLAP user finds it compelling to use CLAP over VST3, go f**king ask them.
But once you've asked them, dont come back here and pretend that you have some universal ubiquitous and binding truth for us. We already see you pretending that, and noone here is convinced.

Hilarious how you refuse to answer the question. Here you are promoting the use of CLAP on a public forum yet you refuse to answer why people should use it over VST3 and think the question

The question is not pointless and it's not a logical fallacy, it's the very crux of the matter. If CLAP is going to become anything more than a fringe also ran product there has to be a compelling reason for people to use it over VST3

What's amazing is you are so invested in promoting and defending the use of the CLAP Plugin Format yet refuse to answer why anyone would use it over VST3 and find the mere thought of the question pointless

[IvyBirds]

I own Bitwig, Studio One, Cubase, Abelton, Acid and Pro Tools. I can use my VST3 plugins in all of them yes even in Pro Tools. I also own every single U-he plugin. Why would I use the CLAP versions of Diva, or Zebra when I can use the VST3 version? Hilarious you won't answer that question and instead are twisting in the wind

Its hilarious that you're asserting I should care enough about what you do to know why you choose to do anything.

I don't have to assert anything your continued quotations of my thoughts on the matter prove you absolutely do care what I think

But beyond that you have asked me multiple questions now which logic would dictate you want answers to which means you do care what I think and what I choose to use

[whyterabbyt]

Here you are promoting the use of CLAP on a public forum

Ah, back to you doing nothing more than lying over and again, how predictable.

[whyterabbyt]

I don't have to assert anything your continued quotations of my thoughts on the matter prove you absolutely do care what I think

liar.

[whyterabbyt]

But beyond that you have asked me multiple questions now which logic would dictate you want answers to

liar.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/z7dyvk7