Here's what we feared: the entirely AI synth - guk.ai

[IvyBirds]

i use the word rationalize because, in my estimation, the negatives of ai use far outstrip any positive aspects. from the devastating environmental impact to how its trained by plagiarizing the arts

If we are honest every single musician was influenced by musicians before then. We all heard music we liked and at some point decided "hey I could do that"

Was that you "plagiarizing the arts"? Or was that you learning from what others did before you and doing your own thing with it? And remember the people you learned from also did the same with people before then who did the same from people before them. AI is just learning from the music that has been publicly made available. As an artist I want my art to be consumed publicly. If an AI learns from my art and incorporates that into something that brings joy to others awesome that's the point of art

As an artist I make art for me, if other people enjoy it so much the better. If however I am stuck crying about lost revenue or plagiarism I am not creating art, I am creating a commercial product that I sell access to, that's awesome but let's not pretend it's some kind of sacred endeavor

And that isn't just a thing with music, it's also a thing with painting, sculpting, photograph, drawing, woodworking, basket weaving, and every other artistic endeavor

Honestly the arguments being fostered against AI are the same exact arguments that were fostered against sampling in the early 1980s

Check out this video from "The Today Show" featuring Keith Emerson who was using a Fairlight CMI to score a movie in 1983



The worry was that so called "real musicians" would be out of a job and "real artistry" was gone because you could use a computer to score a movie. Our take 42 years later on Sampling is rather different wouldn't you say?

AI is here, it's not going anywhere, it's just a tool. People have been making shitty music long before AI existed. I myself have been making shitty music since 1979. If the end goal is shitty music AI is just another tool to get you there

However as a tool AI can be a powerful tool for creative expression

So as musicians we can either shake our fists at the sky which will accomplish nothing, or we can embrace AI and figure out ways to use it creatively, or at least not just reject everything that uses AI. Doing that is exactly like all the people that rejected sampling 40 some years ago

[DCrown]

The internet has a lot of bad sides, but it is established. When Pandora's box has been opened, it is too.late and you learn to accept all the nonsense and get a lil duller, too.
I don't care about newly released music at all for the last 15 years, I just do some music for myself or with friends in order not to waste too much time on the internet and to relax after work.
4 times in the morning per week in the gym I am forced to listen to current music and when I return back home I have to relax from that autotuned worthless, uncreative noise still echoing in my head.
Rarely I listen to music today, rarely to Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Sly Stone, Parliament Funkadelic, Zappa, Joh.Seb.Bach, Glenn Gould or Prince , oh, they are all dead well...
I saw how someone created a whole song using AI within a minute and I was curious and listened to some more AI music, everything sounded like something I have heard a hundred times before, very uncreative without soul and originality, only sound was good , that's all
That's not art, that is just spitting on art due to a lack of talent and creativity , just to get views or get viral or some stupid recognition from stupid people.
Music is a mass product today, completely worthless, even rusty nails are worth more.

[billinder33]

The internet has a lot of bad sides, but it is established. When Pandora's box has been opened, it is too.late and you learn to accept all the nonsense and get a lil duller, too.
I don't care about newly released music at all for the last 15 years, I just do some music for myself or with friends in order not to waste too much time on the internet and to relax after work.
4 times in the morning per week in the gym I am forced to listen to current music and when I return back home I have to relax from that autotuned worthless, uncreative noise still echoing in my head.
Rarely I listen to music today, rarely to Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Sly Stone, Parliament Funkadelic, Zappa, Joh.Seb.Bach, Glenn Gould or Prince , oh, they are all dead well...
I saw how someone created a whole song using AI within a minute and I was curious and listened to some more AI music, everything sounded like something I have heard a hundred times before, very uncreative without soul and originality, only sound was good , that's all
That's not art, that is just spitting on art due to a lack of talent and creativity , just to get views or get viral or some stupid recognition from stupid people.
Music is a mass product today, completely worthless, even rusty nails are worth more.

Geeezy cow, Debbie Downer. I'm no spiring chicken and I'm constantly finding new music to enjoy.

There's tons of great music out there of all styles, even things that would appeal to your boomer sensibilities. You just have to lift a finger and actually look through the sea of mediocrity to find it. Maybe asking AI could help you find some. In fact, I'm sure it could. But I'm guessing you'd rather yell at clouds instead.

[BBFG#]

Yawning, not yelling.
"Water seeks its own level" and generally seeks the lowest level it can find...
If you think it's great than you're as boring as it is.

[DCrown]

The internet has a lot of bad sides, but it is established. When Pandora's box has been opened, it is too.late and you learn to accept all the nonsense and get a lil duller, too.
I don't care about newly released music at all for the last 15 years, I just do some music for myself or with friends in order not to waste too much time on the internet and to relax after work.
4 times in the morning per week in the gym I am forced to listen to current music and when I return back home I have to relax from that autotuned worthless, uncreative noise still echoing in my head.
Rarely I listen to music today, rarely to Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Sly Stone, Parliament Funkadelic, Zappa, Joh.Seb.Bach, Glenn Gould or Prince , oh, they are all dead well...
I saw how someone created a whole song using AI within a minute and I was curious and listened to some more AI music, everything sounded like something I have heard a hundred times before, very uncreative without soul and originality, only sound was good , that's all
That's not art, that is just spitting on art due to a lack of talent and creativity , just to get views or get viral or some stupid recognition from stupid people.
Music is a mass product today, completely worthless, even rusty nails are worth more.

Geeezy cow, Debbie Downer. I'm no spiring chicken and I'm constantly finding new music to enjoy.

There's tons of great music out there of all styles, even things that would appeal to your boomer sensibilities. You just have to lift a finger and actually look through the sea of mediocrity to find it. Maybe asking AI could help you find some. In fact, I'm sure it could. But I'm guessing you'd rather yell at clouds instead.

Well, today about 100.000 new noise tracks are uploaded on Spotify every day, I think not even 100.000 songs were released in one year in the 80ies, so what to expect from a mass product?!
I know Spotify will suggest or recommend you songs refering to your taste, I am neither interested into Spotify (for many reasons), nor into AI. "There is tons of good music today" lol, that's really funny and beyond reality.
There might be tons of good music for you.
No, I am fine with new music I still get from Prince, every month something new is being released, he left about 8000 recordings in his vaults and even his demoes are still better than every song released today.
I don't have to listen to music every day anyway, I have been listening a lot in the past.
My hunger is satisfied.
I could ask AI what to eat every day, too, couldn't I? Well, I know to cook and I know what I like and tolerate, so...

[vurt]

thats fine, im sure the "kids" dont want us old duffers hanging about their gigs anyway.
i know we were always suspicious, of anyone over about 25 when we were at gigs.
"probably a copper or a pervert"

[Scotty]

You’re making a familiar argument — claiming that emergent AI mirrors the sampling revolution that changed music in the 1980s — but that comparison doesn’t hold up.

Sampling was tested in court, rules were set, and artists had to clear their work or face penalties.
It didn’t erase authorship; it clarified it.

AI is something else entirely. It can clone your voice, your face, or your creative fingerprint — and the companies behind it rarely seek permission. AI is a powerful and impressive innovation, but when leveraged to steal, it is piracy dressed as progress.

You can’t just tell creators to “embrace it or be left behind” when their work is being scraped to train models that might replace them. Respect, credit, and compensation aren’t nostalgia — they’re survival.

Right now, it’s still the wild west out here, and the train robbers have bigger guns and better lawyers than the passengers.

This rebuttal was co- authored by ChatGPT
(yeah I just did that).

i use the word rationalize because, in my estimation, the negatives of ai use far outstrip any positive aspects. from the devastating environmental impact to how its trained by plagiarizing the arts

If we are honest every single musician was influenced by musicians before then. We all heard music we liked and at some point decided "hey I could do that"

Was that you "plagiarizing the arts"? Or was that you learning from what others did before you and doing your own thing with it? And remember the people you learned from also did the same with people before then who did the same from people before them. AI is just learning from the music that has been publicly made available. As an artist I want my art to be consumed publicly. If an AI learns from my art and incorporates that into something that brings joy to others awesome that's the point of art

As an artist I make art for me, if other people enjoy it so much the better. If however I am stuck crying about lost revenue or plagiarism I am not creating art, I am creating a commercial product that I sell access to, that's awesome but let's not pretend it's some kind of sacred endeavor

And that isn't just a thing with music, it's also a thing with painting, sculpting, photograph, drawing, woodworking, basket weaving, and every other artistic endeavor

Honestly the arguments being fostered against AI are the same exact arguments that were fostered against sampling in the early 1980s

Check out this video from "The Today Show" featuring Keith Emerson who was using a Fairlight CMI to score a movie in 1983



The worry was that so called "real musicians" would be out of a job and "real artistry" was gone because you could use a computer to score a movie. Our take 42 years later on Sampling is rather different wouldn't you say?

AI is here, it's not going anywhere, it's just a tool. People have been making shitty music long before AI existed. I myself have been making shitty music since 1979. If the end goal is shitty music AI is just another tool to get you there

However as a tool AI can be a powerful tool for creative expression

So as musicians we can either shake our fists at the sky which will accomplish nothing, or we can embrace AI and figure out ways to use it creatively, or at least not just reject everything that uses AI. Doing that is exactly like all the people that rejected sampling 40 some years ago

[billinder33]

Yawning, not yelling.
"Water seeks its own level" and generally seeks the lowest level it can find...
If you think it's great than you're as boring as it is.

Why not just quote my post directly since this is clearly aimed at me?

Your whole frame of mind is straight up wrong. Music in the digital era is not a "water level". It's a distribution curve. In the curated outlets (Spotify, Tidal, etc) you'll find tons of mediocre productions in the middle, flat out crap to the left of the curve, and amazing productions to the right. But there's not going to be any guiding light pointing to you to the right side of the curve, the music you will ultimately love. Not even the algos. You need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and find your own way to it. That music is out there, if you care to look. But you're likely too lazy bother, or more invested in whining than finding joy in new musical ideas. You'd rather bitch instead.

It's possible that you and the prior poster are just midwits. Science has studied the midwit and shown that average basic people get interested in the popular music of their time as youths, but as the midwit gets older, their brains see their early musical enjoyment as a standard which can never be exceeded. Millennial midwits and Zoomer midwits won't be any different than Boomers and GenX in that regard. New music will ever exceed the false standard that you're created in your own brain.

In terms of AI, I get the broader ethical issues related to the tech generally. I actually believe that it will directly or indirectly kill us all in some way at some tine I the future. Whether used by a bad actor developing a virus or via human elites directing a robot coup because we invited them into our homes to do the dishes (the 'I, Robot' scenario), or whatever.

And that IMO that's a bigger issue than the impact of flooding the musical zone with shit. And FWIW, I have no interest in flooding the zone. There's no prompt I could enter into an AI that would give me what I want. And even if it could, I would still be faster playing guitars, sound designing, slice dicing samples, arranging, etc, than writing prompts. No AI is going to beat me at being ME. But that doesn't mean that I can't leverage it as a tool to bend to my own will, or accept or discard as I see fit. And if it drowns me out, so be it. I can only be the best version of me.

If you're afraid of it, you need to identify why and figure out a mitigation plan. If that plan means whining about it, lamenting that the present and future isn't the past, and endlessly yearning for the days of yore, then maybe music just isn't for you. Perhaps find another hobby, one that actually gives you joy instead of endless disappointment because it can never meet the false standard that you've created in your own brain.

[billinder33]

The internet has a lot of bad sides, but it is established. When Pandora's box has been opened, it is too.late and you learn to accept all the nonsense and get a lil duller, too.
I don't care about newly released music at all for the last 15 years, I just do some music for myself or with friends in order not to waste too much time on the internet and to relax after work.
4 times in the morning per week in the gym I am forced to listen to current music and when I return back home I have to relax from that autotuned worthless, uncreative noise still echoing in my head.
Rarely I listen to music today, rarely to Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Sly Stone, Parliament Funkadelic, Zappa, Joh.Seb.Bach, Glenn Gould or Prince , oh, they are all dead well...
I saw how someone created a whole song using AI within a minute and I was curious and listened to some more AI music, everything sounded like something I have heard a hundred times before, very uncreative without soul and originality, only sound was good , that's all
That's not art, that is just spitting on art due to a lack of talent and creativity , just to get views or get viral or some stupid recognition from stupid people.
Music is a mass product today, completely worthless, even rusty nails are worth more.

Geeezy cow, Debbie Downer. I'm no spiring chicken and I'm constantly finding new music to enjoy.

There's tons of great music out there of all styles, even things that would appeal to your boomer sensibilities. You just have to lift a finger and actually look through the sea of mediocrity to find it. Maybe asking AI could help you find some. In fact, I'm sure it could. But I'm guessing you'd rather yell at clouds instead.

Well, today about 100.000 new noise tracks are uploaded on Spotify every day, I think not even 100.000 songs were released in one year in the 80ies, so what to expect from a mass product?!
I know Spotify will suggest or recommend you songs refering to your taste, I am neither interested into Spotify (for many reasons), nor into AI. "There is tons of good music today" lol, that's really funny and beyond reality.
There might be tons of good music for you.
No, I am fine with new music I still get from Prince, every month something new is being released, he left about 8000 recordings in his vaults and even his demoes are still better than every song released today.
I don't have to listen to music every day anyway, I have been listening a lot in the past.
My hunger is satisfied.
I could ask AI what to eat every day, too, couldn't I? Well, I know to cook and I know what I like and tolerate, so...

I hate to say this but.... "OK Boomer"

The issue isn't the state of music. The issue is you.

[IvyBirds]

You’re making a familiar argument — claiming that emergent AI mirrors the sampling revolution that changed music in the 1980s — but that comparison doesn’t hold up.

Sampling was tested in court, rules were set, and artists had to clear their work or face penalties.
It didn’t erase authorship; it clarified it.

AI is something else entirely. It can clone your voice, your face, or your creative fingerprint — and the companies behind it rarely seek permission. AI is a powerful and impressive innovation, but when leveraged to steal, it is piracy dressed as progress.

You can’t just tell creators to “embrace it or be left behind” when their work is being scraped to train models that might replace them. Respect, credit, and compensation aren’t nostalgia — they’re survival.

Right now, it’s still the wild west out here, and the train robbers have bigger guns and better lawyers than the passengers.

This rebuttal was co- authored by ChatGPT
(yeah I just did that).

Only sampling wasn't tested in court at least at first, it was the wild West, the OG Fairlight Library directly samples records

[wikter]

They just need to upgrade the base sample set to 8Mb, those Kawai K4 ones are too lofi.

[DCrown]

The internet has a lot of bad sides, but it is established. When Pandora's box has been opened, it is too.late and you learn to accept all the nonsense and get a lil duller, too.
I don't care about newly released music at all for the last 15 years, I just do some music for myself or with friends in order not to waste too much time on the internet and to relax after work.
4 times in the morning per week in the gym I am forced to listen to current music and when I return back home I have to relax from that autotuned worthless, uncreative noise still echoing in my head.
Rarely I listen to music today, rarely to Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Sly Stone, Parliament Funkadelic, Zappa, Joh.Seb.Bach, Glenn Gould or Prince , oh, they are all dead well...
I saw how someone created a whole song using AI within a minute and I was curious and listened to some more AI music, everything sounded like something I have heard a hundred times before, very uncreative without soul and originality, only sound was good , that's all
That's not art, that is just spitting on art due to a lack of talent and creativity , just to get views or get viral or some stupid recognition from stupid people.
Music is a mass product today, completely worthless, even rusty nails are worth more.

Geeezy cow, Debbie Downer. I'm no spiring chicken and I'm constantly finding new music to enjoy.

There's tons of great music out there of all styles, even things that would appeal to your boomer sensibilities. You just have to lift a finger and actually look through the sea of mediocrity to find it. Maybe asking AI could help you find some. In fact, I'm sure it could. But I'm guessing you'd rather yell at clouds instead.

Well, today about 100.000 new noise tracks are uploaded on Spotify every day, I think not even 100.000 songs were released in one year in the 80ies, so what to expect from a mass product?!
I know Spotify will suggest or recommend you songs refering to your taste, I am neither interested into Spotify (for many reasons), nor into AI. "There is tons of good music today" lol, that's really funny and beyond reality.
There might be tons of good music for you.
No, I am fine with new music I still get from Prince, every month something new is being released, he left about 8000 recordings in his vaults and even his demoes are still better than every song released today.
I don't have to listen to music every day anyway, I have been listening a lot in the past.
My hunger is satisfied.
I could ask AI what to eat every day, too, couldn't I? Well, I know to cook and I know what I like and tolerate, so...

I hate to say this but.... "OK Boomer"

The issue isn't the state of music. The issue is you.

sitting on a high chair of arrogance, you obviously really think your generation is progressive, innovative, best quality ever, that's amazing lol
just like Taylor Swift is considered the best artist ever by the majority of your generation, complete delusion of a swipe-left-TikTok generation.
well, enough said about a topic that's worth nothing, music as an artform was yesterday
btw it is also not true that back in the day we would be listening to the music of our era mainly, there was a lot of great music before, too, we listened to complete albums, not just to repetitive songs for less than a minute.
And you are not even a problem, you are a sad fact and what makes it even sadder: u r not an exception.
As I already mentioned: Pandora's box has been already opened.

[BONES]

Music is a mass product today, completely worthless, even rusty nails are worth more.

I think I'd rather listen to a rusty nail than Thelonius f**king Monk.

Geeezy cow, Debbie Downer. I'm no spiring chicken and I'm constantly finding new music to enjoy.

Yeah, me too. I still buy dozens of albums a year, about half of which is from new artists or artists I'd never heard before.

"Water seeks its own level" and generally seeks the lowest level it can find...
If you think it's great than you're as boring as it is.

I think without water, we die. Where you find it is irrelevant.

Well, today about 100.000 new noise tracks are uploaded on Spotify every day, I think not even 100.000 songs were released in one year in the 80ies, so what to expect from a mass product?!

Who cares about Spotify? Spotify is doing far more damage to music than AI ever could. 100,000 new songs a day isn't going to change that, AI generated or otherwise.

"There is tons of good music today" lol, that's really funny and beyond reality.

If that's true, then perhaps AI is exactly what you've been looking for? If you can see past your bullshit prejudices, maybe you could use AI to create some new music that you'll actually like? I'll guarantee it is more than capable but you'll have to put in the effort.

That seems to be most people's problem - you hear about all the bad AI generated music flooding the streaming services and that's as far as you look, yet we all understand that there has always been plenty of terrible music out there so it's really just a matter of degree. If you went and saw a band and the guy playing the Les Paul was terrible, you wouldn't decide never to see any band with a Les Paul toting guitarist, would you? No, you'd rightly blame the guitarist, not the guitar. So why blame the AI for terrible music when it's just doing what it is asked to do? It was a human being who decided to put it up on Spotify, it was a human who decided it was good enough. The AI had no more say in it than the bad guitarist's Les Paul.

Sampling was tested in court, rules were set, and artists had to clear their work or face penalties.

Rubbish. I've never cleared a sample in my life. But that's not the issue anyway.

AI is something else entirely. It can clone your voice, your face, or your creative fingerprint — and the companies behind it rarely seek permission.

And there are laws in place to protect us against that, which is why Suno did its deal with Universal rather than go to court.

AI is a powerful and impressive innovation, but when leveraged to steal, it is piracy dressed as progress.

Not relevant. Piracy exists across all manner of the tools and processes we all rely on, it's not a specific problem with AI and it is certainly no reason not to use Ai for what it can do for you.

You can’t just tell creators to “embrace it or be left behind” when their work is being scraped to train models that might replace them.

The same is true of one artist ripping off another and having greater success with it. Should we just never let anyone else hear our music, jus tin case it inspires them to make something better than ours?

Respect, credit, and compensation aren’t nostalgia — they’re survival.

I get by without any of those things, none of them are relevant to why I make music.

[DCrown]

Music is a mass product today, completely worthless, even rusty nails are worth more.

I think I'd rather listen to a rusty nail than Thelonius f**king Monk.

Geeezy cow, Debbie Downer. I'm no spiring chicken and I'm constantly finding new music to enjoy.

Yeah, me too. I still buy dozens of albums a year, about half of which is from new artists or artists I'd never heard before.

"Water seeks its own level" and generally seeks the lowest level it can find...
If you think it's great than you're as boring as it is.

I think without water, we die. Where you find it is irrelevant.

Well, today about 100.000 new noise tracks are uploaded on Spotify every day, I think not even 100.000 songs were released in one year in the 80ies, so what to expect from a mass product?!

Who cares about Spotify? Spotify is doing far more damage to music than AI ever could. 100,000 new songs a day isn't going to change that, AI generated or otherwise.

"There is tons of good music today" lol, that's really funny and beyond reality.

If that's true, then perhaps AI is exactly what you've been looking for? If you can see past your bullshit prejudices, maybe you could use AI to create some new music that you'll actually like? I'll guarantee it is more than capable but you'll have to put in the effort.

That seems to be most people's problem - you hear about all the bad AI generated music flooding the streaming services and that's as far as you look, yet we all understand that there has always been plenty of terrible music out there so it's

Respect, credit, and compensation aren’t nostalgia — they’re survival.

I get by without any of those things, none of them are relevant to why I make music.

Exactly, Spotify is one of the worst things every they already use AI to make even more money with some AI band they have created.

Just like you don't care about Thelonious Monk at all, I don't care at all whether you like him or not. In 25 years still some people will remember him or listen to his music, well who will remember you or your music in 25 years, your kvr fan-club or your demented neighbour ? lol
Or lie to yourself by making you believe that your music will last forever , cuz you uploaded it on the internet! No one will care or notice in future, though lol

What makes me laugh the most though (cuz I hope I won't live then any more, I have onlyabout 45-55 years the most still to go), is that AI will probably replace humans one day, cuz humans will be useless, maybe AI will keep some humans in a zoo like we do today with animals. The next level of evolution!

AI powerful ? Indeed? By creating it and (some) using it, we started digging our own graves.

[Teksonik]

I have always made music to feed my soul. Art is the expression of the human soul and A.I. has no soul. It's simply a machine accomplishing a task.

We can't stop AI but we don't have to feed it to foster our own demise. If anyone gets artistic satisfaction from pushing a button and having AI create their music then I have nothing but the deepest sympathy and pity for them since they are missing the whole point of Art. The joy is in the creative process, in tapping into the creative energy. Using our souls and our spirits to start with nothing and end up with something beautiful is the raison d'être of all Art.

Anyway I won't debate the subject any further. We're all just dime store philosophers here and nothing we say will change anything in the grand scheme of things. But we still have the keys to our own destiny and dignity. Our decisions going forward will ultimately affect both.