Hi!
I'm mixing a solo recording of a singing guitarist. One mic on the vocal, stereo pair on the guitar. The track is compiled to two takes, which works pretty well. But there must have been a subtle shift in position of the performer or one of the mics between the takes, resulting is a shift in the stereo representation of the vocal: it sounds narrower in one take than the other. I can't pick it up when the vocal or the guitar is soloed, which leads me to believe there i something going on in the the phase interaction between vocal mic and the guitar pair. Anyone with experiences like this? I've tried fiddling with polarity, sample delay, even automating a stereo widener, but nothing is to my liking. Any suggestions are most welcome!
Comping multi-miced singing guitarist, phase etc.
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- KVRist
- 285 posts since 15 Dec, 2003
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- KVRAF
- 7120 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
I guess you have vocal bleed to stereo pair which makes it more difficult than I had hiring a vocalist once.
But in my case a take was singing more close to mike, and less ambient then than the other.
- so solution was to apply artificial reverb and increase send to reverb when closer to mike
- you can also pan a send
- if just turning the head slightly may interfere what is picked up more in one direction
- not something huge reverb, just enough, which favour what might be cool for guitar and vocal anyway
If that gives you any new idea maybe....
But in my case a take was singing more close to mike, and less ambient then than the other.
- so solution was to apply artificial reverb and increase send to reverb when closer to mike
- you can also pan a send
- if just turning the head slightly may interfere what is picked up more in one direction
- not something huge reverb, just enough, which favour what might be cool for guitar and vocal anyway
If that gives you any new idea maybe....
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 285 posts since 15 Dec, 2003
Thanks, that's probably the closest I've come yet! Small room, with Voxengo MSED muting the mid channel after, to just get the width. Yeah, the leakage interacting with the vocal mic is clearly the issue.
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- KVRAF
- 5274 posts since 2 Jul, 2005
I've had this issue before and the best fix was to redo a lead vocal and mix the bleed tracks as a "backing track". If it's not possible to retrack anything you might have better luck worrying less about the natural width and just fiddle with the volume balance until you get the tone you want. Once things sound nice you can add width again with various tools.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 285 posts since 15 Dec, 2003
Hey, good idea. In this particular case it's not an option, but adding a harmony might be.
I've had some luck using phase alignment, though, so I thought I might share, if someone with similar issues finds this thread. I used the newish phase alignment action in Reaper to calculate sample offset between the stereo track and the vocal: 18 samples and 6 samples respectively. I then used these values in a sample delay plugin, for tweakablity. This (predictably) shifted the image/tonality of the guitar instead, so I ended up spitting the difference delaying one take by 6 samples and the other by 12. Thanks again you sharing suggestions!
I've had some luck using phase alignment, though, so I thought I might share, if someone with similar issues finds this thread. I used the newish phase alignment action in Reaper to calculate sample offset between the stereo track and the vocal: 18 samples and 6 samples respectively. I then used these values in a sample delay plugin, for tweakablity. This (predictably) shifted the image/tonality of the guitar instead, so I ended up spitting the difference delaying one take by 6 samples and the other by 12. Thanks again you sharing suggestions!