Valhalla FutureVerb

[Touch The Universe]

When i look at that chart of those instruments crowded in a room like that - and the plugin places them in that field - isn't it just slight volume and panning - it's just a gimmick. When you are messing the volume and pan and verb you are doing the same them - placing them in a field - at some point it makes no real difference.

[HenkDeWegWeg]

Do Valhallas still sound as mud, theres reverb was bettered long long ago. real place sound and synthetic clear is now possible for very cheap, this is too small too late.pass

[concealed identity]

I don't think I've seen a thread on here get so ruined so quickly

[tumface]

IUp to this point I still considered buying Valhalla FutureVerb but then I tested the automation of parameters and MIDI mapping: unfortunately, Valhalla DSP still has not solved the issues with parameter automation and other minor stuff. Bugs that have been consistently present for years. I own five plugins by Valhalla DSP and do not mind there is no fix for "old" plugins (backward compatibility), but I was really hoping a new plugin would not be released with this bug again. This bug is the main reason why I will not consider purchasing Valhalla FutureVerb anymore.

Agreed, sadly. The Valhalla plugins sometimes also cause my DAW projects that have them to be marked "unsaved"/"dirty" as soon as they're opened. And problems with undo in the host.

I really like them, otherwise. But I hesitate to add any more to my collection unless these things get fixed someday.

[Ah_Dziz]

I'll definitely buy this. Mostly because Sean is a great developer and person and I've gotten more than enough use from his great free stuff to justify this purchase even if I never use futureverb, and I can always use another tax write-off at the end of the year. Ive been using vroom for years when I want a tail that is "realistic" in the sense that people mean when they are discussing mixing music (a distinction that certain folks here can't seem to grasp). Having more of those options is always a good thing.

[Ah_Dziz]

When i look at that chart of those instruments crowded in a room like that - and the plugin places them in that field - isn't it just slight volume and panning - it's just a gimmick. When you are messing the volume and pan and verb you are doing the same them - placing them in a field - at some point it makes no real difference.

It is many other things in addition to volume and pan. Distance from a source changes the frequency response ( assuming there is air pressure). The angle of a sound source relative to listener/ microphone will cause additional stereo effects. The reflections of a room will be massively different depending on the placement of a sound source (this is why it matters where you place your studio monitors). So one of the best ways to spatialize a sound source is via early reflections. There are great tools that do this. They are very much not related to the new VDSP plugin though.

[jamcat]

When i look at that chart of those instruments crowded in a room like that - and the plugin places them in that field - isn't it just slight volume and panning - it's just a gimmick. When you are messing the volume and pan and verb you are doing the same them - placing them in a field - at some point it makes no real difference.

It sounds like you're talking about Ambiente. I can tell you that no, the instruments aren't actually "crowded." That particular "room" view isn't to scale. Ambiente has a different "tech" view, which is, and when you click over to that view, you see there's actually a lot of space between instruments and it shows very precise distances in meters for everything. It looks like this:



You'll notice that there are different numbers of dots within each circle. Those dots represent how many players there are in each group, since each one is a divisi instance of SWAM String Sections and contain 4, 5, or 6 players.

And Ambiente is not a gimmick that simply uses pan and volume. It is a full blown room simulator that creates localized reverb through geometric wave reflection. The spatialization is created by tracing the energy of the room reflections from the unique position of each sound source in the room to the virtual binaural microphone.

[chagzuki]

Do Valhallas still sound as mud, theres reverb was bettered long long ago. real place sound and synthetic clear is now possible for very cheap, this is too small too late.pass

I think the later algorithms in VVV are good, but I never use them because I want more control over the parameters (as one finds in e.g. liquidsonics products). Room is powerful and probably better than VVV imo, but I don't use it either for the same reason.

[Teksonik]

@jamcat (and others) How about a new thread? Discuss your idea of a good reverb there. I think it's a bit disrespectful regarding the product and developer to derail this thread that much.

So basically what you're your saying is that any negative posts about any plugin from any developer are "disrespectful"?

Or you're saying that any posts you disagree with are "derailing"?

In either case that would make KVR no longer a discussion forum but only a place where people come to get their egos stroked.

Some people are saying that they have a right to complain about other member's posts but those members don't have a right to complain about faults they perceive in a plugin? How is that not a double standard?

For the record I have not given my opinion on the Valhalla plugins in this thread one way or the other.

[concealed identity]

I'm pretty sure they said the posts were "derailing" because those posts caused the entire thread to get derailed.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

So basically what you're your saying is that any negative posts about any plugin from any developer are "disrespectful"?

It wasn't about negative posts about a plugin. He didn't even use the plugin, he listened to audio demos! It's posts where Jamcat's whining that these apples are not papayas. And that only papayas will do. And then he goes on to say only people with real tastebuds eat papaya, implying that people who eat apples have bad taste. He's not being censored. He's not a martyr. He's just fixating on something unrelated to the thread/topic. Sure, they're both fruit, but this is about apples! Not some obscure fruit that's very different. People would like him to STFU about it because it's a dumb place to make that argument, not because he's not allowed to make negative posts. I'd be more open to his argument and recommendations if he made them in an appropriate thread.

Maybe a post of, "I'm disappointed that something called Futureverb just seems like a refinement of past approaches versus being something truly new..." Sure. Valid point. But his whole "reverb has to be a real room simulation with exact placement of musicians in a room so I can make my fake SWAM instruments totally real sounding in a way that makes no sense" horse has been beaten to death by now surely.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Anyway, I gave it a go last night. It didn't totally knock my socks off, but I still quite liked it. Definitely got great sounds out of it. As per usual, I found a lot of the stock presets weird but it's super easy to rol your own. Totally different flavor than VVV, but in some instances, I could see myself even preferring Supermassive for a more modern, huge reverb thing. Supermassive is probably my favorite freebie ever. The closest thing I can equate this to is Exponential audio's stuff. It's sort of in the ballpark of Equinox with more character, a more robust delay section, but fewer overall controls. Probably my least favorite UI from Valhalla but maybe I just need some adjustment time. Anyway, I don't buy many plugins these days, but for $50, and based on all the free stuff Sean's added over the years, I wasn't going to pass. And I'm sure I'll use this and get to know it better.

[HcDoom]

Looks like Jamcat is Ambiente sales man. If you wanna discuss it, open a new thread and stop derailing this one.

[concealed identity]

I just gave it a go and I liked it more than I expected to. The reverb itself sounds really clean, and then adding the delay either before or after gives you a huge amount of variance with very little effort. The bigger and more varied the sweet spot, the more it encourages experimentation.

Between this, Valhalla Delay, and Supermassive, I dig how they have this hybrid reverb-delay workflow going on. It's not as intuitive as standard reverb workflows, but it's pretty fun and often results in some very unique (and usable!) sounds.

"Exponential Audio with less controls" is a big compliment imo, since those EA reverbs sound great but have so many controls that they can sometimes be a real chore to use.

[aMUSEd]

When i look at that chart of those instruments crowded in a room like that - and the plugin places them in that field - isn't it just slight volume and panning - it's just a gimmick. When you are messing the volume and pan and verb you are doing the same them - placing them in a field - at some point it makes no real difference.

It sounds like you're talking about Ambiente. I can tell you that no, the instruments aren't actually "crowded." That particular "room" view isn't to scale. Ambiente has a different "tech" view, which is, and when you click over to that view, you see there's actually a lot of space between instruments and it shows very precise distances in meters for everything. It looks like this:



You'll notice that there are different numbers of dots within each circle. Those dots represent how many players there are in each group, since each one is a divisi instance of SWAM String Sections and contain 4, 5, or 6 players.

And Ambiente is not a gimmick that simply uses pan and volume. It is a full blown room simulator that creates localized reverb through geometric wave reflection. The spatialization is created by tracing the energy of the room reflections from the unique position of each sound source in the room to the virtual binaural microphone.

Is it just stereo or does it also do surround?