Valhalla FutureVerb

[IvyBirds]

Another reverb.. oh... it's interesting. To compare it with Room and Vintage Verb... and also will be nice to have something like Cinematic rooms pro but without Ilok...

how does iLok affect the sound?

The old hardware iLok devices have an analog warmth and presence that can't be matched with the new software based iLok

If you do a blind side by side test, it's just obvious that the software iLoks sound nothing like the original hardware. The hardware is just so inspiring, something you just don't get from the software

[dayjob]

Another reverb.. oh... it's interesting. To compare it with Room and Vintage Verb... and also will be nice to have something like Cinematic rooms pro but without Ilok...

how does iLok affect the sound?

The old hardware iLok devices have an analog warmth and presence that can't be matched with the new software based iLok

If you do a blind side by side test, it's just obvious that the software iLoks sound nothing like the original hardware. The hardware is just so inspiring, something you just don't get from the software

this really depends on the USB type your iLok is and what it's plugged into. is it a USB-A iLok or USB-C? are you using a USB-A w/an adaptor to plug in to your USB-C port?

all these things make a difference and can affect the sound in different ways. it's best to try them all and see which one has the best results for your needs.

there's some talk about authorizing to the machine ID and not using the physical iLok at all and how this might affect the sound of everything on that computer simply by using the Machine ID option vs hardware iLok for authorization.

again, do your own research. what do you have to lose?

[billinder33]

I have the older USB-A iLok hardware but my computer only takes USB-C. So I added a Mogami gold-plated oxygen free copper adapter to the chain, and bros it was like adding a Cloudlifter!!! Best $460 I ever spent.

[seafire]

Best $460 I ever spent.

Really?

[MrJubbly]

Oh no! Please, not this again...

14 pages deep and I wonder how many of these comments have been genuinely dedicated to actually discussing the actual plugin itself and the merits thereof?

Apologies to Valhalla DSP for the absolute state of this KVR thread dedicated to your wonderful reverb plugin.

I wish this thread could have been more respectful towards your work.

[Alexander_D]

Another reverb.. oh... it's interesting. To compare it with Room and Vintage Verb... and also will be nice to have something like Cinematic rooms pro but without Ilok...

how does iLok affect the sound?

He does affect system, but... it's another topic honestly....

[_leras]

Am I the only one hearing big sky vibes?

[lingyai]

Oh no! Please, not this again...

14 pages deep and I wonder how many of these comments have been genuinely dedicated to actually discussing the actual plugin itself and the merits thereof?

Apologies to Valhalla DSP for the absolute state of this KVR thread dedicated to your wonderful reverb plugin.

I wish this thread could have been more respectful towards your work.

And yet here you are going off topic, doing the exact same thing you complain about

How many posts have we had now where people go off topic to complain about people going off topic? But I guess you think we needed one more

Be the solution not the problem

You're talking rubbish and you know it

[himalaya]

This thing can sound gorgeous! Some of the textures VFV is capable of is exactly what I'm looking for.

The tails are super smooth, clean and pristine. There is no need for the MOD to mask the last stages of the tail, to hide any ringing. I think this is a fundamental difference between VFV and VVV at least for some algos. For example, I find that the Concert Hall and Bright Hall in VVV have a hollow, ringing quality, whereas every algo in VFV is so smooth and lush.
VVV's Palace mode reminds me of VFV, but it's got its own sonic identity.

There is a certain lovely 'airiness' quality that I really like in VFV.

What I don't like is the default Echo>Rev mode which is super confusing. It immediately adds a pre-delay that I could not dial down (All Echo parameters at zero) . I spent so much time with the Early/Late knob trying to understand why the reverb has this subtle 'ballooning' aura in the initial stages of the sound...
I had to go back to VVV and see what its separate 'Early' and 'Late' knobs do...and then went back to VFV....and then still not understanding what was going on, I clicked on the Echo>Rev button to swap it to the Rev>Echo mode....and suddenly the sound made sense. Suddenly the combined 'Early/Late' knob made sense and I was able to get the reverb tail to gel with the dry signal much better. So, I would highly recommend any prospective user to do the same: if you want smooth, pristine reverbs out of VFV, switch it to Rev>Echo. Then play with the knobs.

But, in the Echo>Rev mode, VFV can produce those cosmic textures that I love so much. There are so many Echo modes too. Very nice. The amount of possible textures here is crazy.

My only criticism here would be the lack of an independent LPF/Damping parameter for the Echo module. As it is, the Analog mode is the one for darker delays, but there is no way to tone it down for other modes without having to use the EQ section, which affects the Echo and Reverb at the same time. I think the Echo module needs a separate EQ, perhaps even one with a mid parametric EQ to cut down some mid-frequency build-up in certain octaves. Is it time for Valhalla to be brave and add another tab/page to their plugins? (EDIT: I forgot that UberMod already has tabs! ha!)

FR:
On/Off for the ECHO and REVERB modules.
You could have the volume balance set just perfectly but then you may want to audition each module independently, in solo mode. On/Off would make this so easy without destroying the volume balance set previously. The MIX button can already be by-passed so why not also add it to the 'Level' text window for both modules?


So...I'm going to buy VFV as it sounds super nice, is a massive step-up in quality for Valhalla DSP reverbs, has very useful creative options, offers a huge palette of sounds, and most importantly, it can teleport me into spaces that I love.
But it suffers from a few design choices, perhaps dictated by wanting to keep the GUI as simple as possible, for example, I'd want to see an EQ section for the Echo module and not have one EQ module that affects both the Echo and Reverb sections.

Congrats to the devs for such a brilliant plugin release!

[UltraByte]

here the answer Sean gave to a user asking about the differences between other Valhalla reverbs and this one on GS. The answer also covers a lot of the questions that arised here and i havent seen it posted yet.

seancostello:

The biggest difference betwen the ValhallaRoom algorithms and the Room algorithm in FutureVerb is 14 additional years of continuous research and development.

ValhallaRoom came out in 2011. Most of the algorithms were based on FDNs, while some of them incorporated Quantec-ish concepts (like Medium Room). At the time that ValhallaRoom came out, I had been coding original reverb algorithms for 12 years. ValhallaRoom was both an attempt to create realistic rooms, as well as the spacey washes that I loved from 80s Eno productions and 90s Warp Record albums.

ValhallaRoom is also a product of the time, in that computer resources were much more limited at the time. I found myself needing to restrict the total amount of memory used in the delay lines, limiting the maximum orders of the FDNs, and using linear interpolation instead of higher order interpolation that used more CPU. I wanted ValhallaRoom to sound lush, but efficiency was paramount, so some sacrifices needed to be made.

ValhallaRoom is also a product of my understanding of reverbs at the time. I understood that a 64-delay FDN could theoretically sound better than a 32-delay FDN, but my experiments with higher order FDNs sounded WORSE than the algorithms that made it into ValhallaRoom.

It turned out that the design principles I had gleaned from reading all of the existing research literature were not necessarily the best way to get a really natural sounding reverb. FDNs can build up echo density really quickly, but can also have a huge gap in their initial echo attack, depending on the relative lengths of the delay lines. Arranging the delay lines differently, and following the strict published theoretical rules of how the feedback gains should be calculated, can result in the shorter delay lines dominating the response and creating a more metallic coloration.

Another important factor is that it took me years to HEAR all of the artifacts. This is something that is probably true for most mixers and audio developers: the more you listen, the more you hear the flaws. I was able to hear the flaws in all of the algorithmic reverb approaches I had been using, as well as flaws in what other people were using. It's like frog vision, in that the longer a frog stares at its environment, the more the environment fades out, and all it sees are things that CHANGE in that environment (like a bug moving).

So in January 2017 I created a simple GUI-less plugin, and started coding every single reverb algorithm I could think of. I was trying to create something that had NO metallic resonances, a natural exponential decay, no repeating audible patterns, a great sound from the shortest to the longest decay settings, and the "openness" that I would hear in real world spaces. The dev process was rapid, and largely consisted of "nope nope nope nope maybe nope nope let's go back to that maybe."

The next several years entailed trying all of the published and unpublished algorithm topologies that I could find. These didn't work, so I started extending and inventing in every way I could think of. Things would sound good, then more listening, then more "nope."

In early 2024, I finally had 3 different algorithmic reverb approaches that got the sounds I wanted. ValhallaFutureVerb ended up using 2 of those approaches, with different specific algorithms for each reverb mode (i.e. number of delays, delay length calculations, how the outputs were shaped). I also realized at that exact same time the futility of seeking perfection, and trying to please everybody in a world where some people will never be pleased. So while the reverb algorithms were being polished, I also experimented with various predelay algorithms (that became the Echo section) that allowed for various colors to be added to the transparent reverb algorithms, as well as having maximum clarity.

OK, that was a lot - so how is the Room algorithm in FutureVerb different than ValhallaRoom? I would say that the FutureVerb room sounds more like a real room. More transparent, more expansive, bettter stereo imaging, more clarity, less metallic. ValhallaRoom sounds closer to "vintage" digital reverbs. After 14 years, ValhallaRoom has become its own form of vintage - lots of people love that sound! FutureVerb was designed to sound different than any of the other Valhalla plugins, and be a useful compliment to any of the Valhalla plugins that anyone already has or might get in the future.

[whassup]

Thanx UltraByte!

[Lbdunequest]

This is probably the best reverb plugin i ever heard

[aMUSEd]

ok, went for it, despite that i have no further Reverb needs. Cause i´m a stupid addict, etc. etc. etc.

I just went thru some testing, VAL Future vs. Cinematic Rooms Pro.
Testprozedere:
- play Piano !...Pianoteq 9
- hosted in GP, which runs single core only. On a M4mac

- i loaded 8 * instances of each, these 8 each were patched in a serial config
- bypass one row, bypass the other, check for cPU consumption.
- same with a single instance of each, check vs. cPU consumption
- check vs. sound, what do i like more ?

Result, only valid vs. my taste and my machine:
- Val-Future eats more CPU. it´s hard to say, my M4 has so much power. probably 50% more ?
- Soundwise ? first CRP is my reference, it´s awesome, it can do highs, even with spiky high frequenzy percussive tones, yet the reverb does not pinch the ears, but you can still leave the highs in.
- if i was unpicky would i say i can love both as good. If i was picky would i say i prefer CRP over the new VAL future

- i kept in this test the delay part out of my equation

- i have plenty of (good) Reverbs. To make me like something beside the CRP *is* a tough job. Usually they all have some shit going in the highs that i don´t like. The VAL future is also very ok or even very good here. To me, that´s an achivement. To me: not many guys were able to achive "this" so far. (nice highs on pinchy percussive sounds)

- for $50 ?..... sort of a nobrainer if one does not have CRP already.
- If you have CRP already ? Guess if i had demoed it first, i´d not bought it. But Sean is a good guy,.....


- a quick test with VAL-Fut vs. "FX the delay" for some pitch warble.....that sounded nice. Me thinks it has it´s own flavor/behave vs. that. It did sound very round.



- its definitly the first Reverb i played with that makes me say, there is a similarity to it vs. CRP. For $50 ? good deal !


- what pisses me off with the VAL-future: the complete colour change when i switch the Reverb mode. The colour with dark mode was fine with me. Others not. Why would somebody do such shit ? are you guys completly losing any feel and understanding vs. how the senses of humans do work ?
- if you want to give it some visual feedback vs. "which mode active", add something like a visual bar somewhere that you can colour up.


higher CPU load vs. CRP, while the CRP has for my taste ( vs. that quick test) still a better sound nags on me. i hoped for a smaller footprint

The fact that it mostly holds up to CP in terms of sound though is interesting, and it sounds a lot more flexible, which is no surprise as it is entirely algorithmic, whereas CP is IR/Algo hybrid. I'll probably buy this on payday.

[pchase]

The fact that it mostly holds up to CP in terms of sound though is interesting, and it sounds a lot more flexible, which is no surprise as it is entirely algorithmic, whereas CP is IR/Algo hybrid. I'll probably buy this on payday.

Huh? CRP is entirely algorithmic. It's also extremely flexible, it has way more controls that allow you to shape the reverb sound compared to FutureVerb? What's more flexible about FV?

[Funky40]

The fact that it mostly holds up to CP in terms of sound though is interesting, and it sounds a lot more flexible, which is no surprise as it is entirely algorithmic, whereas CP is IR/Algo hybrid. I'll probably buy this on payday.

Huh? CRP is entirely algorithmic. It's also extremely flexible, it has way more controls that allow you to shape the reverb sound compared to FutureVerb? What's more flexible about FV?

i see that same as @pchase.