What hardware are you missing in software?

[D-Fusion]

A couple of things of note:

HALion 7's "sample layer" with the stock samples is AWM2... because the source material legit comes from those devices, and you can do a crap-ton of shenanigans going from there (just the GM set alone). AMW2 is bog standard "Sample-Based Synthesis", not wavetables or something "magical".

Tell us you have never touched the AWM2 engine inside of Montage without telling us you have never touched the AWM2 engine inside of Montage

AWM2 allows for 128 complex "Elements" per part. Having 128 per Part allows for incredibly detailed, layered sounds (like a piano with multiple articulations), Each Element has its own filters, envelopes (pitch, amplitude), EQ, and LFO. It relies heavily on highly optimized, proprietary compression and hardware DSP to have massive polyphony of 400 notes total with near-zero latency

To say that's what's inside of HALion7 is just wrong. HALion7 has a really good sample engine for sure, but it's not AWM2. The sampling engine inside of HALion7 is more powerful for experimental sound design, whereas AWM2 is optimized for performance and ready-to-play acoustic emulation

Montage M also comes with a massive 10GB sample library which is entirely different than what's inside of HALion7

The Yamaha ESP Montage plugin released for Montage M owners contains the actual binary code of the Montage M engines (AWM2, FM-X, and AN-X), it's running an emulator of the custom Yamaha ASICs. That is not occuring inside of HALion7

+1
Halion is a different product with it's own old sample set and presets so it not at all the same as a Motif, modx or a Montage.

It is a great product but it is not a replacement for any of Yamaha's Hw products.

[Compyfox]

You again!

Tell us you have never touched the AWM2 engine inside of Montage without telling us you have never touched the AWM2 engine inside of Montage

Correct - I don't have a Montage - but I do have plenty of other Yamaha synths.

You also completely missed the point of my post, which was a general response. But I love you constantly "correcting" me (and others) while acting superior in the process. (so much for your "Tell us you have never touched..." commentary)

I will ignore the rest of your post.

Halion is a different product with it's own old sample set and presets so it not at all the same as a Motif, modx or a Montage.

While it is not a Montage, it definitely is based upon the MOTIF and MODX, made and ported by sound designers that worked on both, with engines available at that time (which, at the time HALion and HALion Sonic first surfaced with the Yamaha based soundsets, was the MOTIF XS/XF).

It is a great product but it is not a replacement for any of Yamaha's Hw products.

Not a 1:1 replacement, no. But an evolution.

HALion 7 covers literally all of AWM2 from the MU/Daughterboard series. It covers a lot of MOTIF XS/XF (and then some), it has a S90ES Piano. And with the right routing, it can also do a SY-77/SY-99 (though granted, not as simplified, and not with the same samples from yesteryear). The rest is "taken from" the MODX and MONTAGE.


In fact... the following sounds are both in the MOTIF and HALion (selection)

Pianos: Full Concert Grand, S90ES Piano, PowerGrand, Jazz Grand.
EPs: Vintage'74, Sweetness, DynoStrait, ChorusHard, 80th Boost.
Organs: 16+8+5&1/3, Jazzy, Slow Jam, Greasy, Mellow.
FM/Keys: TX802, BellDX, Rich FM, GS Tines.
Drums: Many core kits (Power Kit, Hyper Standard)

(pretty sure a certain... bird will swiftly fly in, wag a finger, and scold me how wrong I am - just you wait)




With that - I'm out. I'm sick of the constant hostility form one particular user.

(this is where I'd love for phpbb to straight up be able to "sign out" of certain threads, and it never showing up in the "your threads/your posts" listing - maybe some day, php3.x's successor allows that)


Nice thread revival - keep up the good work, folks!

[IvyBirds]

You again!

Tell us you have never touched the AWM2 engine inside of Montage without telling us you have never touched the AWM2 engine inside of Montage

Correct - I don't have a Montage - but I do have plenty of other Yamaha synths.

You also completely missed the point of my post, which was a general response.

Nope it was crystal clear, you said that HALion7 has the AWM2 sampling engine. That is 100% not true in anyway, and now that you have been called on it, you are being condensing.

Either the following statement is true or it's not. There is no point to make

HALion 7's "sample layer" with the stock samples is AWM2...

quite simply it's not true, even if you want to go all the way to AWM2 on SY77 it's not the same

I do get the point however that a complete and utter novice might think all sampling engines are the same, and I suspect this is your issue. That however is simply not true

When it comes to AWM2 and HALion7, the effects are different, the Modulation Matrix is different, the sample based elements in AWM2 is different, the filters are different

[Compyfox]

You insufferable ...

Nope it was crystal clear, you said that HALion7 has the AWM2 sampling engine. That is 100% not true in anyway,

AWM, or "Advanced Wave Memory", is Yamaha's fancy term for their PCM sample based synthesis to separate themselves from the competition during the rise of sampling-based tone generators. And that goes back to 1987 with their Electone HS/HX Series. AWM quickly evolved to v2 during the 1990s with their Sound Modules (MU Series, DB50XG Daughterboard, YXG100 ISA Audio Card) and Workstation synths.

So no, AWM2 is not some magic bullsh#ttery that you claim it is.
It is simply sample based synthesis.

More from the source themselves - if you need a refresher.
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/musical-in ... chapter03/

When it comes to AWM2 and HALion7, the effects are different, the Modulation Matrix is different, the sample based elements in AWM2 is different, the filters are different

While that is true (different modulation matrix, different effects) - that is the one thing I can agree on (although the MU series were nothing to write home about with their modulation and effects -- HAlion drastically improves on that) - the underlying engine / the sample content as of HALion Sonic (2010, the sucessor to HyperSonic) and HALion 4 (2011) is still bog standard PCM sample based synthesis (again: Yamaha calls this "Advanced Wave Memory"), and the sounds do come from the MOTIF. In fact, the HAlion bundled GM sound set does sound like the higher tier MU devices.

This is an official Steinberg / Yamaha product, and it does cover everything "AWM2" from late 2000s (MOTIF) down to the 1990s (MU Sound Modules, SY-xyz, etc).

The FM-X Zone was indeed inspired (emphasis) by/based upon by the MONTAGE, while the VA Zone (introduced with HALion Sonic and HALion 4 in 2010/2011) was said by various media outlets to be inspired (emphasis) by the AN1x/PLG150-AN add-on card (for the MU series).

EDIT - changed "Engine" to "Zone" about 10+ later, because "pedantic arguments"


Declaring this a 1:1 port or not, is up to the user. You don't agree with that - that is your prerogative. To me, that engine does more than suffice and is an official Yamaha workstation in software form.

End of story.

and now that you have been called on it, you are being condensing.

I do get the point however that a complete and utter novice might think all sampling engines are the same, and I suspect this is your issue. That however is simply not true

While I (indeed) did not have the pleasure to use / own a MONTAGE, I've been using Yamaha synthesizers/romplers/sound modules since the mid 1990s.

I'm a Steinberg user since the mid 1990s.

You called out jack sh#t!

It's the other way around... you have been swooping in, "correcting others" for their apparent misinformation and derailed threads. Most notable example is the SY-77/TG-77 VSTi project "SWAY". Always acting superior, being more than borderline insulting (see above). And you keep doing that, despite being told to take a step back.




Now kindly BACK OFF, or I'll send another report to the mods for your continuous behavior.

[IvyBirds]

You insufferable ...

AWM, or "Advanced Wave Memory", is Yamaha's fancy term for their PCM sample based synthesis to separate themselves from the competition during the rise of sampling-based tone generators. And that goes back to 1987 with their Electone HS/HX Series. AWM quickly evolved to v2 during the 1990s with their Sound Modules (MU Series, DB50XG Daughterboard, YXG100 ISA Audio Card) and Workstation synths.

If you are going to lecture people at least get your facts correct so you stop embarrassing yourself

AW2 was released by Yamaha in 1989 with the SY77, it's been evolving ever since. The MU series came out as a cheaper sample based alternative for Yamaha that used basic PCM sampling to support expanded General MIDI. Yamaha called that "XG" not AWM2. Later sound modules in the MU series from the very late 1990s and early 2000s did use AWM2, but by that point Yamaha was fully engaged with AWM2 with their flagship EX and S series Synths.

More from the source themselves - if you need a refresher.
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/musical-in ... chapter03/

Awesome link if you would have read it you would have learned something and not posted incorrect information, especially the part where it talks about how AWM2 came out in the 1980s with SY77 and not in the 1990s with the MU series as you incorrectly stated

While that is true (different modulation matrix, different effects) - that is the one thing I can agree on (although the MU series were nothing to write home about with their modulation) - the underlying engine / the sample content as of HALion Sonic (2010, the sucessor to HyperSonic) and HALion 4 (2011) is still bog standard PCM sample based synthesis (again: Yamaha calls this "Advanced Wave Memory"), and the sounds do come from the MOTIF. In fact, the HAlion bundled GM sound set does sound like the higher tier MU devices.

Amazing how you keep on doubling down with incorrect information. The MU series used XG not AWM2

The sounds in HALion didn't come from the Motif either.Steinberg released the first version of HALion in 2001. They were still part of Pinnacle Systems then Pinnacle sold Steinberg to Yamaha in very late 2004. By that point HALion was already on version 3 and it had nothing to do with Motif Sounds

The FM-X Zone was indeed inspired (emphasis) by/based upon by the MONTAGE, while the VA Zone (introduced with HALion Sonic and HALion 4 in 2010/2011) was said by various media outlets to be inspired (emphasis) by the AN1x/PLG150-AN add-on card (for the MU series).

AN1x is a Yamaha VA synth that came out in 1997. It has nothing to do with AWM2, the PLG150-AN card came out 1999 and could used in many Yamaha products. It was the basic VA engine from AN1x in expansion card form

Declaring this a 1:1 port or not, is up to the user. You don't agree with that - that is your prerogative. To me, that engine does more than suffice and is an official Yamaha workstation in software form.

End of story.

it's either a direct port or it's not. It has different samples, different ways you use those samples to make layered timbres, different effects, different filters, and different modulation options. In fact there is nothing remotely the same about the two products other than they both use samples. There is not a single person with any first hand synth experience who would ever consider HALion7's sampling synth engine to be a direct port of the AMW2 engine. Do you also think UVI Falcon and Omnisphere use AWM2 because they use samples? How about Roland's Zenology Pro? What about the Korg Triton and Trinity plugins are they using AWM2? I mean they are using PCM samples also

While I (indeed) did not have the pleasure to use / own a MONTAGE, I've been using Yamaha synthesizers/romplers/sound modules since the mid 1990s.

I'm a Steinberg user since the mid 1990s.

And yet you think XG is AWM2, and think Yamaha owned Stienberg in the 1990s

you have been swooping in, "correcting others" for their apparent misinformation and derailed threads. Most notable example is the SY-77/TG-77 VSTi project "SWAY".

Sure because much like in this thread you posted a considerable amount of demonstrably false information that wasn't helpful to this community.

Now kindly BACK OFF, or I'll send another report to the mods for your continuous behavior.

Report me for what? Correcting the demonstrably false information you continue to post based on things you read about on Wikipedia but don't understand?

I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about Synths, but I do know quite a bit about Yamaha's history and Synths as I have been using them to make a living since the mid 1980s, and have been using Steinberg products for almost as long going back to Cubase on an Atari ST. Currently I own Yamaha's flagship Workstation Synth the Montage M. As an owner of that I also have the Yamaha ESP plugin that does have the AWM2 engine. I also have HALion7

There is no doubt to anyone that has actually used them that there is a massive difference between AWM2 on the Montage Hardware and Esp plugin, and the sampling engine inside of HALion7. In fact it's so different you can't recreate the timbres on one even when using the exact samples from the other. I have many sounds from HALion7 that I Autosampled and imported into Montage for example, and I have many GBs of samples from Motif and Montage on my hard drive that I made to use in HALion7 and other similar software

I would love for Steinberg, Yamaha or whoever to make a modern AWM2 plugin that is not beholden to emulating Montage Hardware or worried about patch compatibility between the hardware and the software which is the biggest downside to ESP. That would be awesome

[Compyfox]

I am legit sick and f#cking tired of this sh#t.

I told you to back off. Others in the "SWAY" thread told you multiple times to back off. Yet you come back for more, "correct" users that you claim spew misinformation, yet here we are.

AW2 was released by Yamaha in 1989 with the SY77, it's been evolving ever since. The MU series came out as a cheaper sample based alternative for Yamaha that used basic PCM sampling to support expanded General MIDI.

Note that I explicitly wrote, and I will quote myself and highlight the important parts in red so that it's unmissable...

AWM quickly evolved to v2 during the 1990s with their Sound Modules (MU Series, DB50XG Daughterboard, YXG100 ISA Audio Card) and Workstation synths.

Since you want to be "correct" on everything... let me correct myself indeed... or rather, add to what I already wrote.

Some releases... in order:

PS-55 -- 1983 (first keyboard that used AWM for drums)
Electone HS/HX -- 1987 (home organs, first Yamaha instruments to integrate AWM for Piano, Strings and Percussion)
TX16W -- 1988 (sampler, used 12-bit AWM technology for sampling/sample playback)
EMT-10 -- 1988 (first fully AWM based "Sound Module")
SY-77 -- 01st December 1989 in Japan (first AWM2 / FM hybrid workstation)
SY-55 -- 1990 (first actual pure AWM2 sample synthesis based workstation)
TG-300 -- 1993 (first AWM2 based "Sound Module")
W5 / W7 -- 1994 (AWM2 based workstation)
MU-80 -- December 1994 (AWM2 based "Sound Module", considered the "Flagship" of the MU series, introduced the XG Standard).

My cardinal sin (as was pointed out later down in the post I'm currently quoting / referencing) was to not write that the SY-77 was the first AWM2 based synth, and that it was released one month prior to 1990. I severely apologize for this crass mistake.


Additionally:
The MU series is "nothing cheaper" (as in: lower/inferior tech) - it uses the same darn technology (and samples in places even). Again, Yamaha called their iteration of PCM sample based synthesis "AWM (Advanced Wave Memory)".

... sample based alternative for Yamaha that used basic PCM sampling to support expanded General MIDI. Yamaha called that "XG" not AWM2.

Amazing how you keep on doubling down with incorrect information. The MU series used XG not AWM2

And yet you think XG is AWM2, and think Yamaha owned Stienberg in the 1990s

Absolutely and utterly wrong.

"Yamaha XG", or "Extended General MIDI" (as it's full name) is an extension to the General MIDI standard. Roland Corp did similar with their own ideas, and called it "Roland GS".

One of many sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_XG


But I can understand that you may be confused, because the MU series (especially those), and other XG enhanced "Sound Modules" were often just plainly called "XG Synths" or "XG MIDI Synths".

However -- AWM2 is the actual synthesis engine . A sample-based subtractive synthesis technology -- defined (in settings) by the XG standard.

But don't take my word for it...

Link to Yamaha MU80 manual, page 129, Appendix, Specification.

Let me copy/paste

Code: Select all

Tone Generation Method
AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2

Sound Module Modes
XG (Extended General MIDI), TG300B, C/M, and Performance

I get it... an absolute novice mistake.

The sounds in HALion didn't come from the Motif either.Steinberg released the first version of HALion in 2001. They were still part of Pinnacle Systems then Pinnacle sold Steinberg to Yamaha in very late 2004. By that point HALion was already on version 3 and it had nothing to do with Motif Sounds

Misinterpretation, and absolutely not the point.

I also clearly wrote about HALion Sonic 1 and HALion 4 (and their respective successors) - not the previous iterations.


HALion Sonic was the reboot of "Hypersonic" and was released on 30th June 2010. The following people/groups were involved with the creation.

Yamaha Sound Design Team: Yamaha's internal sound designers, particularly the Kangaroo Project team responsible for the original MOTIF series.

Wizoo (Peter Gorges): was credited for contributing to the original concept, Wizoo was acquired by AVID before the development of HALion Sonic started

Bert Smorenburg: Yamaha product specialist and sound designer, heavily associated with promotion and voicing of the MOTIF and early HALion Sonic content.

Katsunori Ujiie: A legendary Yamaha sound designer whose work on the MOTIF voicing influenced the patches found in the HALion Sonic "MOTIF-based" library.

(easily to find through Google, and various LLMs)

More sources:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/st ... lion-sonic
https://gearspace.com/board/so-much-gea ... sonic.html


HALion Sonic 1 was also considered to be a "sneak peak" for the code reboot of the at that time abandoned HALion engine (HALion 3 released August 2004, got maintenance updates and some QoL features with v3.5 on 01st April 2009 - no, this was not an April Fools joke). Steinberg did not do anything with HALion while NI Kontakt thrived. HALion 4 shifted from a sampler to a sampler/synthesizer hybrid workstation - and it was the best decision they could make to keep HALion alive.

https://www.kvraudio.com/news/steinberg ... june_16352
https://web.archive.org/web/20110409232 ... ion_4.html

The FM-X Zone was indeed inspired (emphasis) by/based upon by the MONTAGE, while the VA Zone (introduced with HALion Sonic and HALion 4 in 2010/2011) was said by various media outlets to be inspired (emphasis) by the AN1x/PLG150-AN add-on card (for the MU series).

AN1x is a Yamaha VA synth that came out in 1997. It has nothing to do with AWM2, the PLG150-AN card came out 1999 and could used in many Yamaha products. It was the basic VA engine from AN1x in expansion card form

Reading comprehension.

Read again what I wrote that both the VA Zone and the FM-X Zone were inspired/based upon. My commentary wasn't off.

This did not need your "correction" and mentioning when thing ABC was released. Both "Zone Inspirations" were released many years prior to implementing into HALion.

End of story.

it's either a direct port or it's not.

Personal opinion - and you stated your opinion loud and clear multiple times over the course of several weeks and multiple threads.

It has different samples, different ways you use those samples to make layered timbres, different effects, different filters, and different modulation options. In fact there is nothing remotely the same about the two products other than they both use samples.

I actually listed presets that are both on the MOTIF and HALion - but okay.

There is not a single person with any first hand synth experience who would ever consider HALion7's sampling synth engine to be a direct port of the AMW2 engine.

Don't judge others by your own standards, please.

HALion is a Yamaha / Steinberg collaboration, it is an official Yamaha product. By that extend, it's an AWM2 engine, as this is how Yamaha calls "PCM Synthesis". This may not be mentioned in the manual, but it's still the case.

You will not agree with me.

That's okay.

Do you also think UVI Falcon and Omnisphere use AWM2 because they use samples? How about Roland's Zenology Pro? What about the Korg Triton and Trinity plugins are they using AWM2? I mean they are using PCM samples also

Strawman argument.

None of those mentioned products are Yamaha products.

And yet you think XG is AWM2, and think Yamaha owned Stienberg in the 1990s

Don't put words into my mouth.

Sure because much like in this thread you posted a considerable amount of demonstrably false information that wasn't helpful to this community.

And I was just one among several people rebuking and correcting your misleading, exaggerated, and in cases even more wrong derailing and borderline insulting commentary.

Get off your high horse.

Report me for what? Correcting the demonstrably false information you continue to post based on things you read about on Wikipedia but don't understand?

Instigating, insulting users, thread derailing, even more insulting.

I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about Synths, but I do know quite a bit about Yamaha's history and Synths as I have been using them to make a living since the mid 1980s, and have been using Steinberg products for almost as long going back to Cubase on an Atari ST. Currently I own Yamaha's flagship Workstation Synth the Montage M. As an owner of that I also have the Yamaha ESP plugin that does have the AWM2 engine. I also have HALion7

So you should actually know the Yamaha history just as much in this case then, yet you're also spreading misinformation.

Understandable.

Considering your age, you should be better than this.

There is no doubt to anyone that has actually used them that there is a massive difference between AWM2 on the Montage Hardware and Esp plugin, and the sampling engine inside of HALion7.

I would love for Steinberg, Yamaha or whoever to make a modern AWM2 plugin that is not beholden to emulating Montage Hardware or worried about patch compatibility between the hardware and the software which is the biggest downside to ESP. That would be awesome

That was never the f#cking point, you pedantic !

I have never talked about the MONTAGE in here. In fact, let me quote what I posted on 14th December - the only time I actually mentioned the MONTAGE, as an alternative solution.

Yamaha Motif

Steinberg / Yamaha HALion 7
(no, I am not kidding - it is an official Yamaha MOTIF/MODX hybrid)

...or get the "MONTAGE" in hardware form and the "Montage ESP" VSTi on top

I don't f#cking care about the MONTAGE !!!

I commented on HALion, I commented on what AWM2 is actually about.
I commented on other synth.

Stop making this all about yourself, your oh so beloved current flagship/workstation synth that apparently everyone gets utterly wrong in here, and by your interpretation "spreading misinformation".

I'm getting really f#cking tired of this bullsh#t !

And again, this is the reason why I backed away from KVR Audio. There is no longer an open and friendly discussion on this community. It's just about "who knows better", and speedruns to thread derailing and insults.



Give yourself a pad on the back - you killed another thread, "bird".
Go outside, touch some grass. You (probably) haven't experienced that one in a while.




...and I just spent 2 hours on this crap yet again.

[IvyBirds]

I am legit sick and f#cking tired of this sh#t.

I told you to back off. Others in the "SWAY" thread told you multiple times to back off. Yet you come back for more, "correct" users that you claim spew misinformation, yet here we are.

You have consistently posted incorrect information, in both the SWAY thread and this thread regarding comparisons with Yamaha Hardware Synths and HALion7

Bottom line is the AWM2 engine isn't inside of HALion7. That goes for the new and improved AWM2 engine inside of Montage M, and the older version inside of Motif

Whole novice users with no experience with the actual hardware like yourself might get confused with that, it's just reality. Sure there are patches on both the hardware and HALion7 that have similar names, but they really don't sound the same as the effects are different, the filters are different, and the Modulation is different. Most importantly is that fact that AWM2 uses layered elements ina very different way than HALion7 does. The underlying fundamental architecture is radically different

This is especially true when we are talking about the AWM2 engine inside of Montage M

As an owner of of Montage M hardware and software, and of HALion7 I can say with absolute certainty they are different, and I can also say with absolute certainty it would be awesome to have a dedicated AWM2 plugin that wasn't trying to emulate hardware

Neophytes like yourself with no experience with Montage M hardware might make the mistake of thinking they are the same but they are not. Just like they get confused that the same engineers can work on multiple projects and I'm doing so create different things

Anyway it's been awesome, looking forward to your next cut and paste where you prove me correct once again.

Best wishes

[Compyfox]

I did no such thing as post false information. You continue to interpret and cherry pick to dissect things you deem "false" and act like being superior to others, while being condescending and more than borderline insulting. Meanwhile, if people catch you posting misinformation, while providing receipts that you do so, you change the subject and portray it as "no, you are wrong!".

I am no "novice" user as you claim I am.
Stop instigating, stop derailing. You've been told that by multiple users several times.

I have now involved the mods. We're done here.
Go touch grass!

Have a great day.

[IvyBirds]

I did no such thing as post false information. You continue to interpret and cherry pick to dissect things you deem "false" and act like being superior to others,

Your entire premise is that the AWM2 engine exists inside of HALion7. That is simply not true and is demonstrably false, you have now been told that in this thread by multiple users

That is not me cherry picking anything, it's just a basic fact that is not open to any kind of interpretation

[fidox]

Yamaha An1x.
It's on my wishlist long time. If and when will have some extra money for synth toys, gonna purchase it again (second hand).
I owned brand new, just when it came out , I think 1997.

https://ibb.co/dsDghcnD

[Compyfox]

Your entire premise ...

I'll put a lid on this.

Aside from your pages of constant attacks towards other users (not only in here), the only other person that commented on xyz being a port or not, was D-Fusion. And the comment on whether the software in question is a (what this thread boiled down to) "1:1 port"/replacement for the hardware in question, was a personal opinion.

Please understand and learn that people have the most different personal standards/expectations/requirements. In my case, I am happy with what Steinberg provides, and I am looking forward to the next major update. It can do what certain Yamaha devices did back then. Maybe not 1:1, and maybe the manual is not really helpful in places, but things can be pushed quite far. It is a monster synth/workstation, it is a(n official) complimentary product, combining concepts of old into a new shell. Pretty much what another Japanese company does with their unified engine.

Accept it or not, there is nothing else to say from my end of the dataline.



Fact is:

HALion uses the same "AWM2 samples/PCM content used in certain Yamaha devices" (important distinction from the other definition), again...most notably the MOTIF XS (which also got the samples from the 'old' "Sound Modules" - recycling/efficiency is a thing). This has gone through the press, this has been confirmed by Steinberg at tradeshows. If you do not agree with that, that is your prerogative.



On the topic of "is it AWM2 synthesis or not" (again, please take note of the definition) - this is (IMHO) a "water"/"pipe" type discussion. Has been since the threat disruption. The pipes are their own system, the water is "the common ground" (in this case, the samples).
Yes, HALion is different compared to the hardware device(s) that is so adamantly defended. It's not called AWM2 (not on paper or labels), big deal (for you, not for me). The revamp of HALion with HALion 4 is still based upon the concept. It can do similar (emphasis!!!), it can do more (until your CPU caves). Again, you will disagree, and that is okay.

Meanwhile I'm over here, still recommending it to people that want a Yamaha device other than various DX/TG ports, or finding an old copy of a SYXG (MU series in software form), or resorting to other weird means.

And lets also not ignore the fact that the other thing (that shall not be named) is not (officially) available/usable unless you bought the hardware. And an entry point of 3450 EUR is a very steep price for a VSTi port.


I hope the grass is treating you well.

Should you ever roam Superbooth in Berlin (Germany), maybe reach out. Pretty sure once the fence is gone (display and keyboard), so is the barking.



DISCLAIMER:

Code: Select all

 This post is personal opinion. The post is based upon personal experience (either having the tech at ones posession, and/or alternatively experience from testing, reading up on tech, etc). This post may or may not agree with your personal standards or values. It may not be what you look for. Understand that people have opinions, think out of the box, agree to diagree. We are all here to learn and help each other. Be respectful, and you will be treated in kind.

[Compyfox]

DISCLAIMER:

Code: Select all

 This post is personal opinion. The post is based upon personal experience (either having the tech at ones posession, and/or alternatively experience from testing, reading up on tech, etc). This post may or may not agree with your personal standards or values. It may not be what you look for. Understand that people have opinions, think out of the box, agree to diagree. We are all here to learn and help each other. Be respectful, and you will be treated in kind.

With that out of the way:

Yamaha An1x.

The (currently) closest you might get is e.g. the VA Zone in Steinberg/Yamaha HALion (you can substitue a possible lack of filters with third party plugins e.g. Fabfilter or Soundtoys) - which is considered to be the "spiritual sucessor" (opinion: internet).

Else... "the synth that shall not be named" with the updated AN-X routine. But in order to get access to/use the software, you also need the corresponding hardware (which is not sold as "standalone product").

[zerocrossing]

Wow, all this kerfuffle about an ancient VA that's long been surpassed by even free plugins.

[IvyBirds]

Your entire premise ...

I'll put a lid on this.
.

Fact is:

HALion uses the same "AWM2 samples/PCM content used in certain Yamaha devices" (important distinction from the other definition),

I get the fact you are an inexperienced neophyte when it comes to synthesis and sound design, but sample content is not even what makes the AWM2 engine AWM2, or the HALion7's sample engine HALion7. Do Montage and HALion7 have a few samples that are similar? Sure. HALion7 also includes samples from the Mellotron, so does that make it a Mellotron? HALion7 has samples from Violins and Cellos does that make it a Violin or a cello?

By your definition if I sample something from my Montage Library and import it into Omnisphere 3 then now Omnisphere magically has the Yamaha AWM2 engine inside of it. Your take on this is EXTREMELY ignorant

What makes AWM2 the AWM2 engine is how it processes the samples. First off the samples themselves in Yamaha hardware are compressed using Yamaha's propriety data compression scheme. HALion7 doesn't use that. If you moved the actual sample library from a Montage and tried to load it into HALion7 it wouldn't work. This data compression colors the sound slightly

Then the AWM2 takes over and that has a unique way of layering and using individual samples to make complex timbres. Yamaha calls these elements . HALion7 doesn't do that. Then of course you have Modulation options. Those are different between AWM2 and HALion7, you have different filters and different effects

All of those things are what makes AWM2 unique. Having a sample in a library doesn't make HALion7 AWM2, anymore than the Mellotron samples inside of HALion7 make it a Mellotron

However I get the fact you are a novice, inexperienced neophyte and you think it does. What blows my mind is your continued insistence to double down on pure ignorance and misinformation just because you refuse to admit that you misspoke

So yes let's put a lid on this

If I picked 5 AWM2 patches at random from my Montage M using the factory library can you recreate them with HALion7 so they sound exactly the same? If the answer is no which it is than the facts dictate that HALion7 doesn't have AWM2. You can't make them sound the same because the AWM2 engine has specific filters that HALion7 doesn't have, it has specific modulation options that HALion7 doesn't have, and the effects are different

Most importantly with AWM2 I can utilize hundreds if individual snippets of samples called Elements in a single Timbre. This allows for very unique and expressive live playing that HALion7 doesn't have. That is the biggest difference which isn't surprising since Yamaha hardware synths are designed as performance instruments

But again since you are an amateur neophyte who has never even touched a Montage M before, live expressive performance utilizing velocity and polyphonic aftertouch is an unknown world to you. Does HALion7 support Poly AT when used inside of Cubase? Sure but the sampling engine reacts in a very different way

Anyway I hope this puts a pin it. I know you will never admit that you were wrong, and will continue to insist that basic facts are somehow subject to interpretation because you choose to have your own "facts" that exist outside of reality

[Tj Shredder]

Could both of you just rest??? No further “correction” necessary! Its annoying to read “end of story” 5 times and you do not end. Instead you repeat again and again what isn’t that important at all…
Its not about being correct or wrong. Its about what we miss as plugin…