SWAY - a synth modeled after the Yamaha SY77

[IvyBirds]

My point is that without the PCM components, the plugin is not completely ready to be sold. I'm pretty sure Sheaf wants to complete the plugin before selling it. That was my point--not the presets.

But he has already said he is done to the point of it being pretty much done, and now people are saying he should spend all kinds of money and time making presets

If you want the factory library import the ROMs and the Sysex. It's already done to that point

[sheaf]

The presets are done! I'm working on some final bugs that popped up, and I'm revisiting some of the PCMs with fresh ears, as well as making sure every single one is properly licensed and attributed. While logging all the licenses and attributions I discovered that some people actually re-release other people's samples as CC0 that were originally not licensed as such. I had to redo those with new sources.

When I first got the TG77 I didn't care much for its samples, but in retrospect I think they are actually pretty good. I discovered that it's very hard to make a multisample sound consistent across the different sample zones. I guess they had the benefit of access to pristine recordings.

I still have to take care of the webshop stuff, and write at least a basic manual of some sorts. With all that in mind I'm aiming for a Q1 release in 2026. But also consider that I said in january 2024 that it would be done in 6 months.

[sheaf]

And I'm sorry it's taking so long btw. I know many people have been waiting a long time for this thing to drop. I don't want to be that person who keeps talking about a project while never delivering, but I do have to make sure it's good enough for a 1.0 release, or customers will be unhappy.

Lesson learned though: my next project will be way smaller (I don't know, a FS1R emu or something ), and I won't even start talking about it until a beta version is ready.

[phreaque]

Sample based emus are tricky.
Possible future project candidate:
TX81z

[Compyfox]

Already exists. Multiple times over.

Sonic Bytes, Plogue, Steinberg/Yamaha themselves.



@sheaf:
You wrote that you resynthesized the sounds. If its now a licensing topic, considering your various sources... ever considered using resynthesis VSTi like Steinberg Backbone? Wouldn't that have worked?

[sheaf]

@sheaf:
You wrote that you resynthesized the sounds. If its now a licensing topic, considering your various sources... ever considered using resynthesis VSTi like Steinberg Backbone? Wouldn't that have worked?

No, I didn't resynthesize sounds because I'm unsure of how that works with copyright. If your resynthesis algorithm is good enough it basically sounds like a copy.

I used a combination of public domain samples, synths and custom recordings with a lot of processing to get them to sound similar.

[Spitfire31]

Sheaf is making his own sample set, similar to the ROM contents, to ship with the plugin. So any presets will use that PCM data, and thus won't sound exactly like the Yamaha presets, but will be in the ballpark generally.

Maybe they will sound better?
/JHS

[Compyfox]

<gasp> Not a 1:1 port then. Burn this thread down!


Snarky remark aside:
If you re-synthesize something e.g. with Backbone, adjust 1-2 things, then export hat a higher sampling rate...Then IMHO it's already different.

But whatever works for you.

However, of you say that the samples flipped the license... who says this won't happen again later down the line?

Also... are the sources really also "cleared"...

That is something only you can answer / have to make clear once the sales start.

[sheaf]

That's won't happen because the ones I use now are all released CC0 by the original authors, and are not unlicensed reuploads. You cannot release something as CC0 and then retroactively change the license to something less permissive.

[IvyBirds]

Already exists. Multiple times over.

Sonic Bytes, Plogue, Steinberg/Yamaha themselves.

None of those are actual emulations of the TX81Z however. So no it doesn't exist multiple times over.

Plogue is working on one but it's not out yet and probably won't be for a while. A TX81Z needs to have the Log-Sine Table from the YM2414 chip, which typically had 10-bit to 12-bit internal processing running through a YM3012 DAC which uses a 10-bit mantissa. That's what gives the TX81Z it's characteristic gritty yet warm sound.

So while yes you can import TX81Z Sysex into FM Zone in HALion7, all you are doing is turning off 4 of the 8 operators, so it won't sound like a TX81Z as the waveforms are generated differently and there is no DAC emulation. It will sound good, but won't be gritty and warm like an actual TX81Z

Exakt from Sonicbits is a great 4op FM plugin that draws heavy inspiration from TX81Z but it's not really an emulation. They also get the DAC wrong and just use a bit crusher to bring it down to 12 bits

OPS7 from Plogue is a DX7 emulator that also has the waveforms from TX81Z produced in a different way, but it does have a bit accurate DAC Emulation from the OG DX7 which has its own vintage gritty character and is probably the closest you can get at the moment in plugin land. It's 6op but you can turn off operators to recreate all of the TX81Z Algos, however it's also quite fun to use all 6

There currently is nothing on the market that emulates the TX81z, but there are multiple plugins that have its waveforms generated in a different way that can do 4op FM either natively or by turning off extra operators, none of them emulate the DAC however

[phreaque]

True, thank you for the input, I didn't want to argue & start a new off-topic loop.

[audiojunkie]

My point is that without the PCM components, the plugin is not completely ready to be sold. I'm pretty sure Sheaf wants to complete the plugin before selling it. That was my point--not the presets.

But he has already said he is done to the point of it being pretty much done, and now people are saying he should spend all kinds of money and time making presets

If you want the factory library import the ROMs and the Sysex. It's already done to that point

Ah, ok. I had the impression that the samples were still being worked on.

[Compyfox]

Geezuz f'n heist, will you STOP ?!
I'm getting really tired of your sh#t at this point. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Already exists. Multiple times over.

Sonic Bytes, Plogue, Steinberg/Yamaha themselves.

None of those are actual emulations of the TX81Z however. So no it doesn't exist multiple times over.

So this is once more down to your "this is not 1:1" tantrum again. Which is exactly the case with your follow-up paragraph lecturing.

Give it a rest... Or go back to your MONTAGE... but FFS leave us, and especially me, alone already!


For everyone else, the mentioned tools are outstanding. Steinberg/Yamaha FM Lab is an official product (can load SYSEX, has 3 processing modes), Sonic Bytes created a good and very affordable "port" that IMHO sounds better than Dexed (can also load SYSEX, the commerial version has more features, the free version packs a lot of punch for that "investment"), Plogue went the extra mile with the DX7 (incl various DAC settings) and threw in the TX81z waveforms as bonus.

Don't listen to the self proclaimed software port "expert" (by this person's definition: Plogue can do way more than the DX7, can be "clean" even, so it is not 1:1 accurate. SWAY will eventually also be doing more, and the samples are a topic as well - hypocrisy at it's best).

Get whatever TF kind of tool you want and just make music.

[Uncle E]

Let's keep the discussion to SWAY. I don't think anyone is interested in discussing other synths here, least of all sheaf.

[IvyBirds]

Geezuz f'n heist, will you STOP ?!
I'm getting really tired of your sh#t at this point. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Already exists. Multiple times over.

Sonic Bytes, Plogue, Steinberg/Yamaha themselves.

None of those are actual emulations of the TX81Z however. So no it doesn't exist multiple times over.

So this is once more down to your "this is not 1:1" tantrum again. Which is exactly the case with your follow-up paragraph lecturing.

Give it a rest...

Why don't you give it a rest, if it's not even attempting to model the Oscillators and the DAC of the TX81Z it's not an emulation of one. Those are the things that make the TX81Z have is unique sound. None of the companies you listed claim to have a TX81Z emulator none of them. Someone on this thread responded to Sheaf saying an TX81Z plugin would be cool, and you once again posted demonstrably false information and said that it has already been done when it hasn't. Your deliberately false information could cause someone to spend money on a plugin that doesn't so what they want which is to sound like a TX81Z

But I will give it a rest, I will just chalk it up to an inexperienced neophyte who thinks all Synths that can do Yamaha Style 4op FM are TX81Z emulations. As for me since I own all of the plugins you mention and the Original Hardware (I have 3 of them) I will simply say you are incorrect

But then again you must also think Sway is a DX7 emulator and not an SY77 emulator because you can use it to 6 op FM with sine waves

Don't bother to reply unless you want to apologize for the false information you posted. Let's keep this on topic and stop spreading false information

Don't listen to the self proclaimed software port "expert" (by this person's definition: Plogue can do way more than the DX7, can be "clean" even, so it is not 1:1 accurate. SWAY will eventually also be doing more, and the samples are a topic as well - hypocrisy at it's best).

OPS7 is a but accurate DX7 emulation. Plogue did a phenomenal job with it. It also has extra features if you want it to. Please don't post your ignorance about it because it absolutely is a 1:1 emulation of the DX7, right down to the ability to select which firmware you want it to run. They bit accurately modeled all the chips inside of it, the look up tables and the DAC